More prominent RPI and BTP on South Eastern?

[Metal_gee_man]

So for weeks now Dover Priory is being seen a low hanging fruit for 'as you call them RPIs' but they are Railway Enforcement Officers or REOs.

They regularly have 3 or 4 REOs (No BTP) manning the barriers most afternoons/evenings catching large swathes of ticketless passengers, from the vast majority of barrierless stations between Ashford and Dover, Faversham and Dover and Ramsgate and Dover. Sadly the local yoof don't like paying, the local eastern European community don't like paying and of course the local dealers don't like paying even though they normally stink of weed.

It shows they notice patterns and act on them, they go for obvious wins where their presence is going to have a large visual impact but also a fining impact. And the word does spread.
It's just disappointing as some have said if the revenue protection (Barriers) were in place before this point we wouldn't need this sort of heavy handed approach to revenue but this is where we are right now!

 

[londonteacher]

OK I do hope with your attitude they inspect you just as you're getting off and your wallet falls between the train and the platform.

It just sounds like you have had an issue with this and now have a bee in your bonnet. Maybe you have been caught out in some way?

As you said:

just as it was about to pull into a station

So you were on the train not stepping off the train. No issue at all with checking your ticket. They could also check as you are boarding a train.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2021 ==

So for weeks now Dover Priory is being seen a low hanging fruit for 'as you call them RPIs' but they are Railway Enforcement Officers or REOs.

They regularly have 3 or 4 REOs (No BTP) manning the barriers most afternoons/evenings catching large swathes of ticketless passengers, from the vast majority of barrierless stations between Ashford and Dover, Faversham and Dover and Ramsgate and Dover. Sadly the local yoof don't like paying, the local eastern European community don't like paying and of course the local dealers don't like paying even though they normally stink of weed.

It shows they notice patterns and act on them, they go for obvious wins where their presence is going to have a large visual impact but also a fining impact. And the word does spread.
It's just disappointing as some have said if the revenue protection (Barriers) were in place before this point we wouldn't need this sort of heavy handed approach to revenue but this is where we are right now!

Completely agree.

The only point I would raise is barriers are not always the solution. Often see in London people jumping them to avoid payment. The best way would be fully staffed stations with barriers.

 

[Chriso]

So for weeks now Dover Priory is being seen a low hanging fruit for 'as you call them RPIs' but they are Railway Enforcement Officers or REOs.

They regularly have 3 or 4 REOs (No BTP) manning the barriers most afternoons/evenings catching large swathes of ticketless passengers, from the vast majority of barrierless stations between Ashford and Dover, Faversham and Dover and Ramsgate and Dover. Sadly the local yoof don't like paying, the local eastern European community don't like paying and of course the local dealers don't like paying even though they normally stink of weed.

It shows they notice patterns and act on them, they go for obvious wins where their presence is going to have a large visual impact but also a fining impact. And the word does spread.
It's just disappointing as some have said if the revenue protection (Barriers) were in place before this point we wouldn't need this sort of heavy handed approach to revenue but this is where we are right now!

Great news. I take it the REO’s can also issue penalty fares?. I hope the gatelines will be manned more frequently down there. They must be the least used of any operator (outside London zone 1)

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Fare invasion is common on the mainline stations as well, Paddock Wood, Marden, Staplehurst, Pluckley during school holidays sees lots of kids making free local journeys.

Happens on the Maidstone East line too (but maybe not as common as the aforementioned...)

Often, the conductor will either sell a ticket or ask the traveller to alight at the next station (which isn't enforced from what I've seen)

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Great news. I take it the REO’s can also issue penalty fares?. I hope the gatelines will be manned more frequently down there. They must be the least used of any operator (outside London zone 1)

It's just a friendly name change, they can enforce other bylaws and face mask wearing too. Making them sound exclusively revenue focused makes them look bad I guess

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2021 ==

Happens on the Maidstone East line too (but maybe not as common as the aforementioned...)

Often, the conductor will either sell a ticket or ask the traveller to alight at the next station (which isn't enforced from what I've seen)

You say Maidstone East I say Maidstone West and Barracks too, that whole Medway Valley Line is a revenue blackhole, I witnessed 3 revenue avoiding incidents in a 50 min journey from Paddock Wood to Strood, where the conductor felt strongly enough to turn on her body worn camera and warned the footage would be passed onto the relevant people.

 

[ComUtoR]

It's just a friendly name change, they can enforce other bylaws and face mask wearing too. Making them sound exclusively revenue focused makes them look bad I guess

Southeastern have both RPO and REOs. Different people, different roles.

 

[Chriso]

It's just a friendly name change, they can enforce other bylaws and face mask wearing too. Making them sound exclusively revenue focused makes them look bad I guess

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Dec 2021 ==


You say Maidstone East I say Maidstone West and Barracks too, that whole Medway Valley Line is a revenue blackhole, I witnessed 3 revenue avoiding incidents in a 50 min journey from Paddock Wood to Strood, where the conductor felt strongly enough to turn on her body worn camera and warned the footage would be passed onto the relevant people.

Yes the Medway valley line is bad. I have witnessed many problems on there and although the route looks really rural the local youth population seem pretty feral

I guess the fact the whole route has no gates bar Strood doesn’t help matters but many guards don’t bother doing tickets which again doesn’t help making it more difficult for the ones who do. In the 466 days REO’s we’re pretty often on it due to the guard been unable to do tickets and doors all from back cab but not sure of the current state of play with the 375/3’s.

Have South Eastern gated Maidstone East as part of the station rebuild?

 

[island]

It's just a friendly name change, they can enforce other bylaws and face mask wearing too. Making them sound exclusively revenue focused makes them look bad I guess

Just to note that no Southeastern employees howsoever described have the right to "enforce face mask wearing" save, I suppose, to the extent that they may be able to refuse someone the right to enter onto or remain on private property. Only police officers, employees of TfL and its subsidiaries, and designated local authority employees have this right.

 

[Jim the Jim]

That is their job. It doesn't matter when in the journey. Not reckless at all.

No railway employee should be doing anything as part of their job if it puts anyone's safety at risk. The platform-train interface is just about the place passengers are most likely to be seriously injured on the railway and I am inclined to agree with the first poster that neither RPIs or anybody else should be doing anything that even slightly increases the risk. This is especially the case on DOO trains with typically short dwell times, like the Thameslink services.

Quite apart from any real or imagined safety risks there is also a possibility of the passenger failing to get off the train in time or (station-dependent) failing to make a valid connection, which could potentially end up costing the railway rather a lot in delay repay or other compensation. This would seem at odds with the general aims of a revenue protection strategy.

(Going back to the first point, having a passenger stood by the doors and scared they might not get off in time does not strike me as good safety management. This is exactly the sort of situation in which people might be inclined to do dangerous things.)

 

[the sniper]

I think they can be positive if they are polite, sensible, and well trained in railway ticketing rules, for example split tickets, break of journey, and cases such as splitting tickets at a station the train doesn't call at using a season ticket or ranger, which are permitted. However, I was once wrongly accused of having an invalid ticket at Woolwich Arsenal, which senior experts have advised was a valid ticket. I have also encountered RPIs who lack regard for public safety. 2 years ago, I had a ticket inspection by Thameslink RPI on a train just as it was about to pull into a station I was due to alight at, and was at the door ready to disembark. The reckless timing could easily have caused a lost wallet. On balance, I am against RPI deployment therefore

Your first problem is that you need 'senior experts' to vouch for the validity of your ticket. That's a fault of the game rather than the players. Secondly, the possibility of losing your wallet doesn't seem to equate to RPIs lacking 'regard for public safety'...

 

[AlterEgo]

No railway employee should be doing anything as part of their job if it puts anyone's safety at risk. The platform-train interface is just about the place passengers are most likely to be seriously injured on the railway and I am inclined to agree with the first poster that neither RPIs or anybody else should be doing anything that even slightly increases the risk. This is especially the case on DOO trains with typically short dwell times, like the Thameslink services.

Quite apart from any real or imagined safety risks there is also a possibility of the passenger failing to get off the train in time or (station-dependent) failing to make a valid connection, which could potentially end up costing the railway rather a lot in delay repay or other compensation. This would seem at odds with the general aims of a revenue protection strategy.

(Going back to the first point, having a passenger stood by the doors and scared they might not get off in time does not strike me as good safety management. This is exactly the sort of situation in which people might be inclined to do dangerous things.)

So RPIs aren’t allowed to talk to people who are standing by the doors waiting to alight at the next stop. I struggle with this forum sometimes.

 

[Train Maniac]

Yes the Medway valley line is bad. I have witnessed many problems on there and although the route looks really rural the local youth population seem pretty feral

I guess the fact the whole route has no gates bar Strood doesn’t help matters but many guards don’t bother doing tickets which again doesn’t help making it more difficult for the ones who do. In the 466 days REO’s we’re pretty often on it due to the guard been unable to do tickets and doors all from back cab but not sure of the current state of play with the 375/3’s.

Have South Eastern gated Maidstone East as part of the station rebuild?

Can confirm. Considering as its one of my local lines, i tend to be rather wary using it in the late evening. It has a very bad habit of attracting the undesirables....

Re Maidstone East: For some ungodly reason, no. Perfect opportunity missed- as per usual

 

[Chriso]

Can confirm. Considering as its one of my local lines, i tend to be rather wary using it in the late evening. It has a very bad habit of attracting the undesirables....

Re Maidstone East: For some ungodly reason, no. Perfect opportunity missed- as per usual

I can not believe that I swear they were in the original plans. That station really is crying out for them

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

REO RPI BTP, perhaps someone could explain these (and other?) abbreviations. What are the differences, what powers, duties, training do they have?

Do BTP officers have the same powers and duties as normal constables?
..
So, I am waiting by the doors to get off and want to go straight to a connecting train, should they accompany me onto the train, or should the check be completed on the platform so I could miss my train?

 

[ScotGG]

SE has been a shambles for revenue for so long. The dangers of DOO and unstaffed stations alongside very rare onboard checks.

It *is* unusual to have blocks for many days in a row at one location. Still, they will go and it will go back to how it was. The only long term change will be as a result of gates. It doesn't stop all but does stop a fair few not having tickets. Yet at station rebuilds like Maidstone they aren't putting them in.

At Abbey Wood, all day staffing and gates upon TFL takeover saw counted passengers rise something like 50 per cent.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

REO = Rail Enforcement Officer (presume look out for unruly behaviour, keep order).

RPI = Revenue Protection Inspector (ticket checks, revenue protection)

BTP = British Transport Police (presume they have nearly/all powers of regular police or do they not have powers of arrest?)

Nobody should miss a connecting train.

 

[XAM2175]

Do BTP officers have the same powers and duties as normal constables?

BTP = British Transport Police (presume they have nearly/all powers of regular police or do they not have powers of arrest?)

BTP officers have "all the power and privileges of a constable" in England, Wales, and Scotland when on and about the railway, as well as anywhere in Great Britain when acting for a purpose connected to a railway or in investigation of anything occurring on or in relation to a railway.

 

[AlterEgo]

Nobody should miss a connecting train.

That’s a statement which needs to be very heavily qualified, I think.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

That’s a statement which needs to be very heavily qualified, I think.

Okay, nobody should be unnecessarily delayed on their way to board a connecting train by an authorised person wanting to check a passenger's ticket or authority to travel

But then this isn't the subject of this thread

 

[AlterEgo]

Okay, nobody should be unnecessarily delayed on their way to board a connecting train by an authorised person wanting to check a passenger's ticket or authority to travel

But then this isn't the subject of this thread

If a passenger has a ticket which needs inspecting or an RPI sees fit to ask questions of a passenger then they can do it whenever they like.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

If a passenger has a ticket which needs inspecting or an RPI sees fit to ask questions of a passenger then they can do it whenever they like.

I would be very aggrieved if this happened and I missed my connection as a result

 

[island]

I would be very aggrieved if this happened and I missed my connection as a result

If you have left the correct minimum connection time between your two trains, then no routine ticket check should result in you being delayed for more than the minimum connection time, except perhaps at High Wycombe.

 

[MPW]

I wonder why the UK does not make more use of on-board ticket inspectors as opposed to barriers. Where I have used such a system abroad the entering and exiting of trains feels much more relaxed. Fines can be lower for first offence and increase over time.

Do people think this is cultural?

 

[the sniper]

BTP = British Transport Police (presume they have nearly/all powers of regular police or do they not have powers of arrest?)

Just out of curiosity, how would you imagine that'd work?

BTP officers have "all the power and privileges of a constable" in England, Wales, and Scotland when on and about the railway, as well as anywhere in Great Britain when acting for a purpose connected to a railway or in investigation of anything occurring on or in relation to a railway.

Plus if they come across anything occurring off the railway where locals aren't readily available, they can deal with it as per any 'normal' Police. Or if the locals request them to. Essentially, they have the same powers anywhere in most situations.

I wonder why the UK does not make more use of on-board ticket inspectors as opposed to barriers. Where I have used such a system abroad the entering and exiting of trains feels much more relaxed. Fines can be lower for first offence and increase over time.

Given that some here with valid tickets are seemingly more perturbed by ticket checks than most fare evaders are, it's probably for the best...

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Just out of curiosity, how would you imagine that'd work?



Plus if they come across anything occurring off the railway where locals aren't readily available, they can deal with it as per any 'normal' Police. Or if the locals request them to. Essentially, they have the same powers anywhere in most situations.



Given that some here with valid tickets are seemingly more perturbed by ticket checks than most fare evaders are, it's probably for the best...

Those splendid memoirs An Inspector Recalls makes clear that BTP's work involves ports every bit as much as railways.

 

[XAM2175]

Those splendid memoirs An Inspector Recalls makes clear that BTP's work involves ports every bit as much as railways.

Not since the late '80s.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Revenue block at Bromley South today

 

[boiledbeans2]

Revenue block at Bromley South today

But Bromley South is barriered anyway?

 

[AlterEgo]

But Bromley South is barriered anyway?

So is Woolwich Arsenal, but it is often not manned, with the gates open.

 

[ComUtoR]

But Bromley South is barriered anyway?

It's another station where blocks are regularly carried out.

Surprisingly Bromley South is a bit of a hell hole. Lots of anti-social behaviour, plenty of gate jumping and doughnutting etc etc.