More prominent RPI and BTP on South Eastern?

[londonteacher]

Not sure if this is the right part of the forum but I have noticed that Plumstead has RPI and BTP presence in the evenings all this week - including right now (9pm). This is brilliant - has anyone else seen this over the SE network since they were taken over by the OLR?

 

[RJ]

I saw them tonight at Woolwich Dockyard at around 2040. They’ve always done random blocks, might have quietened down in recent months because of the pandemic.

 

[londonteacher]

I saw them tonight at Woolwich Dockyard at around 2040. They’ve always done random blocks, might have quietened down in recent months because of the pandemic.

They still were. But even before the pandemic, it was rare for them to be there a few days in a row. It's great though!

 

[ComUtoR]

Blocks like this happen all the time. Plenty of times before the pandemic too.

They are very successful.

Nothing to do with the change to the OLR.

 

[87015]

Blocks like this happen all the time. Plenty of times before the pandemic too.

They are very successful.

Nothing to do with the change to the OLR.

Surely a success would be them not catching anyone without tickets as there is a culture of being valid? "Success" of stopping lots in a random block shows a complete failure on revenue protection strategy to me.

 

[ComUtoR]

I would agree, in part and principle. Revenue protection should be about preventing passengers from boarding without tickets in the first place.

However, it is just one side of the dice. No matter what you do there will always be people who decide to board without a ticket or play the system in some way. It's that side where you need to be able to recover revenue and also to act as a deterrent.

Any strategy put in place must address all sides of revenue protection/recovery. You couldn't just put gates in and leave it as it doesn't catch those who are defrauding the system. You would still need blocks and onboard checks.

The other side is the one that is pretty much hidden from the public and that may be the more important result of ticket blocks.

 

[RJ]

Surely a success would be them not catching anyone without tickets as there is a culture of being valid? "Success" of stopping lots in a random block shows a complete failure on revenue protection strategy to me.

That’s just the country we live in - people know it’s a bit soft and they can get away with these behaviours. Round these parts people just push through the barriers or ask to be let through, or tell revenue staff to go away and it goes without challenge.

There’s only so much that can be done about it. Some other countries have lower tolerance but then there are consequences to that which don’t necessarily make them more desirable to live in.

 

[Horizon22]

Plumstead blocks used to be VERY common - I imagine that Covid put a stop to many of them and have started picking up again.

 

[Bensonby]

I see them most weeks in some capacity on that line (blocks/on trains/platforms).

 

[iphone76]

I've been working around Abbey Wood / Plumstead recently and heard a conversation recently over the phone saying they were going to get off the train at Plumstead as it's a free train. I hope they get caught soon. I noticed another block there today and also at Woolwich between the DLR and the southeastern platforms. Good to see.

 

[Chriso]

Great news. Maybe South Eastern could start employing staff for their gatelines as well

 

[Class800]

I have used Plumstead many times - always with a ticket or a contactless card/Oyster. But have never seen any revenue checks that I can recall. I know there is no gateline. The ticket office area is closed outside of core business hours. I can only speak about the times I was there - and I have no particular reason to doubt others' stories, although I cannot corroborate them with my experience either

 

[Recessio]

Surely with the amount of money spent paying RPIs and lost to fare evasion, they could just put in gatelines and ensure they're manned?

Either way, glad to see it. SE Metro is notorious for fare dodging, and maybe cracking down on this will also reduce the amount of passengers committing vandalism and anti-social behaviour.

 

[ComUtoR]

Surely with the amount of money spent paying RPIs and lost to fare evasion, they could just put in gatelines and ensure they're manned?

Some stations need a redesign and rebuild to add gates. (Brixton)
Then you need to install gates at every station.
Employ and train a few hundred extra staff to man the gates

How do you deal with fraud ? How do you deal with gate jumpers ? Gates will not prevent doughnutting, short faring, oyster abuse, season ticket fraud. It doesn't deal with passengers who double up or just push through the gates. Gates are only a small part in revenue protection.

Either way, glad to see it. SE Metro is notorious for fare dodging,

Yes and no. The reputation is justified but the overall percentage is tiny. SE Metro carries millions of passengers and for the most part they do have tickets. I'd certainly be interested in some hard facts and statistics.

and maybe cracking down on this will also reduce the amount of passengers committing vandalism and anti-social behaviour.

Exactly. RPIs do more than just deal with tickets.

 

[AlterEgo]

Surely with the amount of money spent paying RPIs and lost to fare evasion, they could just put in gatelines and ensure they're manned?

Come to Woolwich Arsenal which is manned with a gate line and we how many people just vault the barriers and leg it. I’ve seen it a dozen times or more in a year.

Either way, glad to see it. SE Metro is notorious for fare dodging, and maybe cracking down on this will also reduce the amount of passengers committing vandalism and anti-social behaviour.

Yep, the loop lines out of Cannon Street are almost lawless. It’s been good to see the revenue and police blocks lately.

 

[londonteacher]

I have to say every weekday for the last two weeks they have been at Plumstead! It's great - finally catching the scroungers who got away with travelling for free!

 

[Class800]

Interesting, they weren't there when I arrived at Plumstead Thursday past. 10pm

 

[ComUtoR]

finally catching the scroungers who got away with travelling for free!

It really isn't the scrounger you should care about.

... and police blocks lately.

Early info is looking pretty good.

 

[londonteacher]

Interesting, they weren't there when I arrived at Plumstead Thursday past. 10pm

Been there until about 9pm every weekday!

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It really isn't the scrounger you should care about.

I'm just glad that people are being caught out!

 

[AlterEgo]

It really isn't the scrounger you should care about.



Early info is looking pretty good.

Yes, SE Metro is used a vehicle by all sorts of bad eggs. Preventing ticketless travel stops a lot of this and makes a difference off the railway as well as on it. It’s good to see.

 

[Class800]

Been there until about 9pm every weekday!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Dec 2021 ==


I'm just glad that people are being caught out!

OK. Must just be that I was after they went home. I have mixed views about it. It could reduce fare dodging (good). It could lead (as discussed on other threads a number of items before) to people being punished (penalty fare or threat of prosecution) when they hold valid but unusual or complex tickets (bad).

 

[AlterEgo]

OK. Must just be that I was after they went home. I have mixed views about it. It could reduce fare dodging (good). It could lead (as discussed on other threads a number of items before) to people being punished (penalty fare or threat of prosecution) when they hold valid but unusual or complex tickets (bad).

Do you live on the SE Metro network?

 

[Class800]

Do you live on the SE Metro network?

Yes, it is where my parents live, and I spend 1/3 of my time here, near Plumstead

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, it is where my parents live, and I spend 1/3 of my time here, near Plumstead

I can’t imagine anyone who lives on the route not thinking this is a universally good thing. There is a vast, vast amount of antisocial behaviour in and around the route and operations like the ones at Woolwich and Plumstead stop crime from happening off the railway as well as on it. Some wrongly issued penalty fares are not even the tiniest concern.

 

[londonteacher]

It could lead (as discussed on other threads a number of items before) to people being punished (penalty fare or threat of prosecution) when they hold valid but unusual or complex tickets (bad).

That is very rare though and can be appealed if it happens. Not quite sure on the complex tickets that could be available at Plumstead to be honest.

I am very pleased it is happening, and as @AlterEgo says if it is reducing the antisocial behaviour and catching those out that would have not paid then I am all for it.

 

[island]

The more the merrier; I live near a zone 3 station on the way to Dartford and I have my ticket checked less than once a year on the route.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Fare invasion is common on the mainline stations as well, Paddock Wood, Marden, Staplehurst, Pluckley during school holidays sees lots of kids making free local journeys.

 

[Class800]

I think they can be positive if they are polite, sensible, and well trained in railway ticketing rules, for example split tickets, break of journey, and cases such as splitting tickets at a station the train doesn't call at using a season ticket or ranger, which are permitted. However, I was once wrongly accused of having an invalid ticket at Woolwich Arsenal, which senior experts have advised was a valid ticket. I have also encountered RPIs who lack regard for public safety. 2 years ago, I had a ticket inspection by Thameslink RPI on a train just as it was about to pull into a station I was due to alight at, and was at the door ready to disembark. The reckless timing could easily have caused a lost wallet. On balance, I am against RPI deployment therefore

 

[londonteacher]

2 years ago, I had a ticket inspection by Thameslink RPI on a train just as it was about to pull into a station I was due to alight at, and was at the door ready to disembark. The reckless timing could easily have caused a lost wallet.

That is their job. It doesn't matter when in the journey. Not reckless at all.

However, I was once wrongly accused of having an invalid ticket at Woolwich Arsenal, which senior experts have advised was a valid ticket.

A bad experience for you? Yes. They probably saw a ticket they were unfamiliar with so was confused. No excuse for not being aware of validity though, but not a reason to not inspect.

On balance, I am against RPI deployment therefore

I hope RPI deployment is more common across the whole network. What's the saying? If you don't pay they'll take it away? The same could happen to services.

 

[Class800]

That is their job. It doesn't matter when in the journey. Not reckless at all.

OK I do hope with your attitude they inspect you just as you're getting off and your wallet falls between the train and the platform, and that you get a penalty fare or worse for using a perfectly valid ticket - then hopefully you will change your mind and your inconsiderate attitudes towards customers. I will engage further in this provocative discussion