Rover & Ranger Tickets from TVM’s

[Wallsendmag]

GWR seem to have managed to get their journey planner - an accredited site - to sell rovers and rangers. What's stopping them from expanding their range to include all such tickets across the country?

The fact that GWR don't use every suppier's TVMs, they obviously paid for the work some time back. Would it be the best use of the limited money in the industry now?

 

[Andy Pacer]

GWR seem to have managed to get their journey planner - an accredited site - to sell rovers and rangers. What's stopping them from expanding their range to include all such tickets across the country?

Agreed, it's a good tool. I've bought two ALRs in the past from the GWR website (despite my living in Leicestershire) as it was less hassle than trying to coach a local ticket office assistant in what it is and how to issue it.

 

[ABB125]

The problem with this being that sales are so low that it is highly unlikely a business case could be made, even for a site with national coverage. And before anyone says it would be easy, such a site would have to be accredited and accreditation isn't easy.

I'm no expert on ticket retailer accreditation, so this may be a stupid point, but why would a site need accreditation if all it does is sell rangers/rovers? It's not like it would need all the complicated journey planner programming found on other sites; indeed, given that rangers/rovers are fixed products, surely a "generic product sale platform" (I'm imagining something like Amazon, but only selling rangers/rovers) would suffice?

 

[Haywain]

I'm no expert on ticket retailer accreditation, so this may be a stupid point, but why would a site need accreditation if all it does is sell rangers/rovers? It's not like it would need all the complicated journey planner programming found on other sites; indeed, given that rangers/rovers are fixed products, surely a "generic product sale platform" (I'm imagining something like Amazon, but only selling rangers/rovers) would suffice?

Accreditation is about doing everything a site does in accordance with industry standards - it doesn’t only come into play when you sell tickets with a journey planner. It also governs how the site does it’s reporting of sales and refunds and how tickets are printed and distributed.

 

[FenMan]

Accreditation is about doing everything a site does in accordance with industry standards - it doesn’t only come into play when you sell tickets with a journey planner. It also governs how the site does it’s reporting of sales and refunds and how tickets are printed and distributed.

What's to stop an existing accredited retailer from setting up a new URL to sell these tickets?

 

[Wallsendmag]

What's to stop an existing accredited retailer from setting up a new URL to sell these tickets?

Nothing but then you have to go through accreditation again

 

[Watershed]

The fact that GWR don't use every suppier's TVMs, they obviously paid for the work some time back. Would it be the best use of the limited money in the industry now?

What does it have to do with TVMs?

Their website sells every ranger and rover that's valid on GWR services, including the ALR.

These tickets are fulfilled by post so there is no involvement whatsoever with TVMs (which I accept would be a more complex project, though - as LO's TVMs show - not impossible).

 

[Kite159]

It would be good if more Rover & Rangers were available to buy online or via TVMs, less chance of arriving at a station to buy the ticket from the ticket office to find the office closed (either planned or unplanned) or the ticket office person being unable to find it on the system (especially for those rangers which are listed under some strange names which don't relate to the current name of the ticket) [or in the case of Sheffield, being unwilling to sell it because it's too much like hard work]

 

[6Gman]

There should be no need for ticket offices at all. You could close them all and have corner shops sell them off the internet.

I'm thinking of the stations I generally use and wondering where the nearest "corner shop" would be . . .

Wolverhampton - somewhere by the bus station?
Crewe - the other side of Gresty Road.
Chester - heaven knows! Brook Street?
Stafford - ?
Shrewsbury - maybe the shop at the top of the station ramp. (The only one I can think of that would be reasonably close)
Stockport - somewhere on Wellington Road?

You see the problem?

 

[Haywain]

I'm thinking of the stations I generally use and wondering where the nearest "corner shop" would be . . .

Wolverhampton - somewhere by the bus station?
Crewe - the other side of Gresty Road.
Chester - heaven knows! Brook Street?
Stafford - ?
Shrewsbury - maybe the shop at the top of the station ramp. (The only one I can think of that would be reasonably close)
Stockport - somewhere on Wellington Road?

You see the problem?

Not really, most of these have shops within the stations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 Oct 2021 ==

What's to stop an existing accredited retailer from setting up a new URL to sell these tickets?

Nothing other than the lack of a good business case for doing it. If it was going to make money it would have been done already. These are niche products with a tiny market.

 

[AlterEgo]

I'm thinking of the stations I generally use and wondering where the nearest "corner shop" would be . . .

Wolverhampton - somewhere by the bus station?
Crewe - the other side of Gresty Road.
Chester - heaven knows! Brook Street?
Stafford - ?
Shrewsbury - maybe the shop at the top of the station ramp. (The only one I can think of that would be reasonably close)
Stockport - somewhere on Wellington Road?

You see the problem?

Why does the corner shop need to be by the station? Why not have a corner shop in the station, or even better, close to where people live and work?

There's no compelling reason why people are paid by the railway to sit behind glass and sell tickets.

 

[RT4038]

There should be no need for ticket offices at all. You could close them all and have corner shops sell them off the internet.

Because the ticketing system is so complex that the corner shop would say thanks but no thanks.

The ticket system should not be so complex as to require a specially trained employee to give you the right ticket. Airline tickets are often vastly more complex but almost everyone manages without a booking office for those.

As you will have read elsewhere in this forum, any attempt at simplification (without reducing overall revenue, which would require more subsidy and that this not going to happen) is roundly condemned.

The specially trained employees in ticket offices are generally not ticketing enthusiasts and don't know all the idiosyncrasies of the ticket system - what hope a minimum wage youngster in the corner shop?

 

[AlterEgo]

Because the ticketing system is so complex that the corner shop would say thanks but no thanks.


As you will have read elsewhere in this forum, any attempt at simplification (without reducing overall revenue, which would require more subsidy and that this not going to happen) is roundly condemned.

The specially trained employees in ticket offices are generally not ticketing enthusiasts and don't know all the idiosyncrasies of the ticket system - what hope a minimum wage youngster in the corner shop?

Well, my argument (as you detected) is to eradicate much of the complexities. If you need a specially trained person sitting behind glass whose only job is to sell tickets all day long to, apparently, stop people getting ripped off, then you have a big problem.

 

[Andy Pacer]

It would be good if more Rover & Rangers were available to buy online or via TVMs, less chance of arriving at a station to buy the ticket from the ticket office to find the office closed (either planned or unplanned) or the ticket office person being unable to find it on the system (especially for those rangers which are listed under some strange names which don't relate to the current name of the ticket) [or in the case of Sheffield, being unwilling to sell it because it's too much like hard work]

Quite agree. I am usually filled with dread when buying a rover from a ticket office... even more so when I'm attempting to do so using Rail Travel Vouchers!

 

[Shotton]

I agree that it would most definitely be useful to offer rangers and rovers from TVMs as ticket officers are for the most part not open throughout the entire length of service.

However, I would add my experience with ticket offices is different to some others on here. The ticket office at Shotton and the booking window on Platform 3 at Chester have always been happy and able to sell me every curious ticket I asked for including various rangers and rovers for travel not in the local area. I would hate to see these closed in favour of just TVMs or corner shops.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The ticket office at Shotton and the booking window on Platform 3 at Chester have always been happy and able to sell me every curious ticket I asked for including various rangers and rovers for travel not in the local area. I would hate to see these closed in favour of just TVMs or corner shops.

Can be a pain getting a GM Wayfarer issued at a local Paypoint outlet (i.e. the local Co-op) and even then it's issued on what looks like a small piece of flimsy till roll.

 

[route101]

Never seen any rangers and rovers for sale on Scotrail TVMS.

Off to Exeter tomorrow, can I buy a Devon Day Ranger online?

 

[Andy Pacer]

Never seen any rangers and rovers for sale on Scotrail TVMS.

Off to Exeter tomorrow, can I buy a Devon Day Ranger online?

You can yes:

Great Western Railway

tickets.gwr.com

Although I'm not sure if you can collect from a TVM.

 

[JonathanH]

Never seen any rangers and rovers for sale on Scotrail TVMS.

I have certainly bought a Roundabout ticket from a Scotrail TVM in Glasgow.

 

[route101]

I have certainly bought a Roundabout ticket from a Scotrail TVM in Glasgow.

Interesting, I have never seen that option.

 

[JonathanH]

Interesting, I have never seen that option.

It used to just be a 'destination' rather a specific 'option.

 

[route101]

You can yes:

Great Western Railway

tickets.gwr.com

Although I'm not sure if you can collect from a TVM.

No you cant.

Will have to to purchase at station tomorrow morning.

 

[philthetube]

What's to stop an existing accredited retailer from setting up a new URL to sell these tickets?

Nothing but then you have to go through accreditation again

for anyone currently selling tickets then what accreditations would be different to those already checked, if few then is this the railway making things difficult difficult again. revenue, we already do it, reporting sales, we already do it, etc. I would of thought that most of it would be a tick box exercise.

I would to have thought it would have been too expensive to set up on an existing site, to create a steady, though not huge income stream.

 

[Haywain]

I would to have thought it would have been too expensive to set up on an existing site, to create a steady, though not huge income stream.

It would be a tiny income stream, far outweighed by the costs of setting up. For the umpteenth time, rovers and rangers are a niche product with a minute market share. Even retailers specialising in niche markets (Trainsplit) haven’t gone for this.

 

[Shotton]

It would be a tiny income stream, far outweighed by the costs of setting up. For the umpteenth time, rovers and rangers are a niche product with a minute market share. Even retailers specialising in niche markets (Trainsplit) haven’t gone for this.

See, it's interesting to methat this is mentioned because imo rangers would have a much wider market if they were advertised. Not only do they offer the ability to make day/longer trips around an area, in some instances, a ranger will be the cheapest fare available for a point to point journey, so if people knew about them they would surely be purchased in these cases at the very least.

 

[Haywain]

See, it's interesting to methat this is mentioned because imo rangers would have a much wider market if they were advertised. Not only do they offer the ability to make day/longer trips around an area, in some instances, a ranger will be the cheapest fare available for a point to point journey, so if people knew about them they would surely be purchased in these cases at the very least.

You’re right, with promotion sales might increase. But that would be from a minuscule proportion of sales to a marginally less minuscule proportion. A niche product will always be a niche product.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I'm thinking of the stations I generally use and wondering where the nearest "corner shop" would be . . .

Stafford - ?

The massive Tesco Extra literally round the corner.

 

[js517]

It would be a tiny income stream, far outweighed by the costs of setting up. For the umpteenth time, rovers and rangers are a niche product with a minute market share. Even retailers specialising in niche markets (Trainsplit) haven’t gone for this.

If I understand correctly, very few rangers/rovers can be fulfilled to TOD which rather limits online retailers. If they could be fulfilled to e-ticket things might be different, who knows.

 

[northernman]

Northern TVMs should begin to issue rovers and rangers during Q1 next year.

 

[Llandudno]

Northern TVMs should begin to issue rovers and rangers during Q1 next year.

Excellent, let’s hope Northern start marketing them!