Rover & Ranger Tickets from TVM’s

[Llandudno]

Tried to buy a South Pennines Day Ranger ticket yesterday morning from a staffed railway station ticket office, but unusually the ticket office was closed, presumably due to staff illness.

There are a couple of ticket machines adjacent to the closed ticket office so I tried to buy my ticket from one of those, but could find no way of purchasing one. I decided to board my train regardless and the very helpful Northern guard willingly sold me the required ticket.

I later Tweeted Northern asking why these tickets cannot be purchased at station TVM’s and their reply as along the lines of:

We are not allowed to sell Ranger or Rover tickets through TVM’s as it’s a National condition and nothing Northern can do about it!

Is this true, is it a ‘National Condition’ and if so, why?

 

[ABB125]

Tried to buy a South Pennines Day Ranger ticket yesterday morning from a staffed railway station ticket office, but unusually the ticket office was closed, presumably due to staff illness.

There are a couple of ticket machines adjacent to the closed ticket office so I tried to buy my ticket from one of those, but could find no way of purchasing one. I decided to board my train regardless and the very helpful Northern guard willingly sold me the required ticket.

I later Tweeted Northern asking why these tickets cannot be purchased at station TVM’s and their reply as along the lines of:

We are not allowed to sell Ranger or Rover tickets through TVM’s as it’s a National condition and nothing Northern can do about it!

Is this true, is it a ‘National Condition’ and if so, why?

That seems to be utter rubbish - I've bought plenty of rangers from ticket machines (though admittedly not from Northern ones).

 

[Llandudno]

That seems to be utter rubbish - I've bought plenty of rangers from ticket machines (though admittedly not from Northern ones).

Have you, which ones?

And does anyone know of any other Rangers or Rovers that can be purchased from TVM’s?

 

[Starmill]

London Overground sell various products including All Line Rovers. Avanti West Coast's old TVMs can sell local products e.g. System One Travelcards in Greater Manchester, West Midlands Day Rangers at Crewe and so on. I do not know if their new machines can.

 

[ABB125]

Have you, which ones?

And does anyone know of any other Rangers or Rovers that can be purchased from TVM’s?

That's a good question - I'm absolutely sure I've bought some in the past, but I can't remember what they were. I know I've bought things like the Network West Midlands Daytripper before, though that's not quite the same. Nevertheless, I'm sure I've bought "proper" rangers from a machine. More recently, though, I've tended to buy them from ticket offices so that I can ask for a ticket wallet to add to my collection!

 

[Bletchleyite]

That seems to be utter rubbish - I've bought plenty of rangers from ticket machines (though admittedly not from Northern ones).

I think it's the software they are using. As others have said the Shere machines can sell them. Merseyrail use S&B and theirs can't - they had to create the day tickets as "fake singles" to get TVMs to issue them.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Doesn't GWR sell the Rovers and Rangers in its area on its TVMs and online?
Rovers need a name on the ticket, I don't know if TVMs can deal with that.

 

[TheSel]

Doesn't GWR sell the Rovers and Rangers in its area on its TVMs and online?
Rovers need a name on the ticket, I don't know if TVMs can deal with that.

Not sure they need a name. The implementation of any such 'requirement' seems a bit 'hit and miss'. Occasionally I've been asked, but more often not.

As you'll see from my most recent one pictured below, no name appears on the ticket, and I wasn't asked for one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rangers do not need a name on them. Some TISs may issue them like that, but it isn't required.

Here's one for you I got Saturday night - purchased online a Bletchley-R1256 Travelcard to collect at Paddington (it can be handy to use them in one direction like that due to the low price) and it issued as a one day season! At least it didn't issue it as a 2 piece return as it did last time I did that.

A London Travelcard is effectively just a (the most common) Day Ranger - but if they can't get those right...

 

[JonathanH]

It does seem to be that Shere ticket machines are falling out of favour with Avanti moving to a new model of ticket machine that works on a 'journey planning' approach.

I did find that the GWR machine at Bristol Temple Meads last week, while seemingly offering an option to sell a Freedom Travelpass ticket, wouldn't actually sell it.

ScotRail S+B machines will sell a Roundabout ticket in Glasgow but that has always been issued in a different way to most other rangers.

A London Travelcard is effectively just a (the most common) Day Ranger - but if they can't get those right...

The sales of London Travelcards exceed any other ticket of the same kind to such an extent that special treatment for them is justified. Investment in the machines to sell other rovers and rangers just isn't appropriate for such niche products. Moreover, I suspect there is a desire to ensure that ticket office staff have the control over where and how they are issued.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The sales of London Travelcards exceed any other ticket of the same kind to such an extent that special treatment for them is justified. Investment in the machines to sell other rovers and rangers just isn't appropriate for such niche products. Moreover, I suspect there is a desire to ensure that ticket office staff have the control over where and how they are issued.

My point was sort of that if they couldn't even issue those right (the above ticket is incorrectly issued, though like last time when I got one spat out as a conventional return ticket between Bletchley and R1256 it was accepted), what hope Rovers?

I'm leaning towards the idea that there should be a "National Rail Rovers and Rangers" website and phone app, and this should be the only place to purchase them, sold as e-tickets only. It would remove the confusion and complexity they cause from the mainstream ticketing system to which they mostly have no relevance. Perhaps staffed booking offices could still do them, but it'd remove any need for TVMs or TOC websites to bother.

On the other hand, as there are plenty of local ones (Travelcards, GM Rangers, Merseyrail Daysavers etc) that *are* mainstream tickets, perhaps they should just fix it.

 

[robbeech]

Of course what they told you is absolute drivel. It's part of the Railway's "if you don't know, make it up, but make it up in favour of the railway" training scheme that the operators are quickly jumping on board with.

It doesn't help, as they were correct with one bit, that you can't buy rangers / rovers from their machines.

Buying from the guard is the sensible option here and most Northern Guards (if they leave the cab to do revenue duties) will be happy to sell you one if they can find it on their machine. The difficulty rises when the guard doesn't appear and you end up being threatened with court despite doing nothing wrong.

 

[TheSel]

I'm leaning towards the idea that there should be a "National Rail Rovers and Rangers" website and phone app, and this should be the only place to purchase them, sold as e-tickets only.

Please start leaning the other way. e-tickets are incompatible with both my old (above) and new (below) phones, as pictured below.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Please start leaning the other way. e-tickets are incompatible with both my old (above) and new (below) phones, as pictured below.

View attachment 104307

And you don't have a printer?

 

[JonathanH]

And you don't have a printer?

While printers are now comparatively cheap relative to historic costs they aren't free. I guess it is possible to go to a library or corner shop to get something printed but it isn't as simple as going to a station.

 

[TheSel]

Doesn't an e-ticket become a p-ticket once it's printed?

 

[skyhigh]

Doesn't an e-ticket become a p-ticket once it's printed?

No, it's still an e-ticket no matter what format it's shown in.

 

[NorthWestRover]

Northern have been promising for months that "Tickets will soon be available to buy on our website and via Ticket Vending Machines" for the Explorer 55.

 

[6Gman]

Please start leaning the other way. e-tickets are incompatible with both my old (above) and new (below) phones, as pictured below.

View attachment 104307

And however often I press my PT Card* on the screen it still doesn't apply the discount!




* Retired staff privilege travel card.

 

[Flying Snail]

The sales of London Travelcards exceed any other ticket of the same kind to such an extent that special treatment for them is justified. Investment in the machines to sell other rovers and rangers just isn't appropriate for such niche products. Moreover, I suspect there is a desire to ensure that ticket office staff have the control over where and how they are issued.

This is such total rubbish.

Investment, seriously? These machines only function is to imprint black dots on bits of card, it is really to difficult and expensive to have them programmed to imprint them in the shape of a ranger rather than a day return?

This is just another insurmountable problem only the railway and it's acolytes can find any logic in finding reasons to justify.

An enthusiast with zero resources has managed to provide for free a comprehensive website of the available rovers with prices descriptions and maps, all that is needed for a TVM to issue these is a similar dataset with an additional printing set for each product, one which MUST already be in existence for ticket office and on-board machines to work.

As for techyite's idea for them to be reduced to online e-only? There is no justification in denying these tickets to anyone not in a position to use expensive and exclusionary tech.

 

[david1212]

My point was sort of that if they couldn't even issue those right (the above ticket is incorrectly issued, though like last time when I got one spat out as a conventional return ticket between Bletchley and R1256 it was accepted), what hope Rovers?

I'm leaning towards the idea that there should be a "National Rail Rovers and Rangers" website and phone app, and this should be the only place to purchase them, sold as e-tickets only. It would remove the confusion and complexity they cause from the mainstream ticketing system to which they mostly have no relevance. Perhaps staffed booking offices could still do them, but it'd remove any need for TVMs or TOC websites to bother.

On the other hand, as there are plenty of local ones (Travelcards, GM Rangers, Merseyrail Daysavers etc) that *are* mainstream tickets, perhaps they should just fix it.

Please start leaning the other way. e-tickets are incompatible with both my old (above) and new (below) phones, as pictured below.

View attachment 104307

My current phone

While printers are now comparatively cheap relative to historic costs they aren't free. I guess it is possible to go to a library or corner shop to get something printed but it isn't as simple as going to a station.

Which is time and hassle.


I still maintain the quickest way to buy a ticket is a ticket office ...

Me " Hello, A xxxxxxxx ranger / rover for travel today / starting today please "

Staff " That will be £pp.pp"

Me present payment card to terminal ... or cash .... remember that !!

Staff " Presents ticket and receipt "

If the technology was sorted once payment accepted instead
Me - present ITSO card, or whatever the implemented technology was, to terminal for ticket to be loaded.

Me " Thank you "


Buying on the train is essentially the same.

 

[Haywain]

Which is time and hassle.


I still maintain the quickest way to buy a ticket is a ticket office ...

Many people regard going to a ticket office as “time and hassle”.

 

[JonathanH]

Many people regard going to a ticket office as “time and hassle”.

...and yes, it is if you want to buy tickets in advance. It is also time and hassle for those who want something which doesn't involve deliberation stood behind them in the queue. However, for walk up travel, the opposite applies. It is quicker to purchase at the station, although ticket offices can create time and hassle if they question what you want to buy.

 

[Flying Snail]

Many people regard going to a ticket office as “time and hassle”.

I regard station lifts and ramps as "time and hassle" however I am not so selfish and ignorant to ignore that for other people they are essential to access the service.

 

[david1212]

Many people regard going to a ticket office as “time and hassle”.

Maybe depends on the station but at many you have to walk past the booking office from the street / forecourt to the platform.
Overall time saved bypassing booking office vs however many minutes online.

 

[AlterEgo]

I regard station lifts and ramps as "time and hassle" however I am not so selfish and ignorant to ignore that for other people they are essential to access the service.

There should be no need for ticket offices at all. You could close them all and have corner shops sell them off the internet.

The ticket system should not be so complex as to require a specially trained employee to give you the right ticket. Airline tickets are often vastly more complex but almost everyone manages without a booking office for those.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The ticket system should not be so complex as to require a specially trained employee to give you the right ticket.

And the irony is that so many of them aren't specially trained enough!

Rovers/Rangers would be easy to sell from a website where you can e.g. look at the coverage map and buy.

 

[Haywain]

Rovers/Rangers would be easy to sell from a website where you can e.g. look at the coverage map and buy.

The problem with this being that sales are so low that it is highly unlikely a business case could be made, even for a site with national coverage. And before anyone says it would be easy, such a site would have to be accredited and accreditation isn't easy.

 

[Watershed]

GWR seem to have managed to get their journey planner - an accredited site - to sell rovers and rangers. What's stopping them from expanding their range to include all such tickets across the country?

 

[Bletchleyite]

GWR seem to have managed to get their journey planner - an accredited site - to sell rovers and rangers. What's stopping them from expanding their range to include all such tickets across the country?

If they sell some of them they probably do sell all of them when they represent the cheapest fare for a given itinerary. NRE certainly shows them in that context.