Class 67s to run at 125 mph in 2011

[Railway]

http://rail-news.com/2010/11/30/db-schenker-to-run-125-mph-services-in-2011/

 

[rail-britain]

125mph freight trains...
What wagons would that be?

 

[The_Pilot]

Possibly royal mail coaches or the sleeper

 

[ukrob]

Possibly royal mail coaches or the sleeper

Sleepers wouldn't run at 125mph - it would be a total waste of a 125mph loco. There is no urgency to start with.

 

[mumrar]

Sleepers would have to be enitrely formed of mk3s to do that, and they always run quite slow so as to not give a rough ride, there has never been any 125mph capable Royal Mail stock, the Mk1 based stuff would be 100 as would the Class 325 units.

 

[87015]

Some of the Mk1 postal stock was cleared to 110mph.
Presume they will lash some Mk3s up for this from DB Regio pool.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The ability to drop onto a failed 225 set and drag at 125 mph would be of some benefit. We currently have no 125 mph coaching stock, LHCS Mk 3s are 110 mph unless modified.

I thought it was axle load rather than brake blocks that prevented them running at 125 mph in the first place?

Puzzling!

 

[The Planner]

Will only be on the GWML they'll do this then, usual story of no EPS and 67s are limited to 110 on the ECML.

 

[matt]

Has these tests actually taken place yet as the posts on wnxx had paths in for tomorrow and Thursday so is it a bit premature to say they were successful tests?

 

[rail-britain]

I can understand why the tests have been carried out on the GWML, to ensure the Class 67 can meet their original design speed (which some of them did meet shortly after delivery)
However, I don't remember anyone posting any Class 67 test runs with Mark 3a or 3b coaches
If an Open Access Operator has proposed 125mph services using such coaches, then no doubt the RoSCo wants to make sure it can meet their requirement, so therefore this application is no doubt being taken seriously

However, it is the mention of 125mph freight that seems odd
There was a mention a few years ago of converting some Mark 3 coaches for Royal Mail use, but that was all abandoned
For such a freight train it would either have to be short or light, otherwise it would need two such locos in order to take advantage of the higher speed
With all the spare RFM coaches, this might be under consideration again...

 

[DaveNewcastle]

However, it is the mention of 125mph freight that seems odd

Agreed.

Linespeed dictates that the benefits of high speed operation can only apply to London-Bristol, and timetables dictate that the only times when freight paths would have to operate at high speed are during daytime hours, so I'm puzzling to see where the market is.
Imported coal to Power generators, perhaps?

 

[asylumxl]

It's a totally unfounded idea, but I'm thinking that they could want to put forward the idea them for use them to haul the electric IEP sets where there's no wires.

 

[Royston Vasey]

GC Euston to Blackpool is planned using 67s and stock and they were mooting 125 as a long term aim... Can't imagine it's in relation to that though. It isn't approved and would only be from 2012. Could GC have the might and wherewithal to do all this ground work on the off chance? Possible but I can't see it!

 

[ukrob]

GC Euston to Blackpool is planned using 67s and stock and they were mooting 125 as a long term aim... Can't imagine it's in relation to that though. It isn't approved and would only be from 2012. Could GC have the might and wherewithal to do all this ground work on the off chance? Possible but I can't see it!

They couldn't do 125 on the WCML.

 

[Royston Vasey]

They couldn't do 125 on the WCML.

Also occurred to me, that's true!

Publicity stunt then??

 

[Drimnagh Road]

As an aside, and not suggesting anything in the least - with modification - could a 67 work with a mk4 + 82/2 ?, i.e. the 91 comes off at Edinburgh, and the 67 goes on to Aberdeen?

 

[mumrar]

There isn't any 125mph sections between Edinburgh and Aberdeen is there? (Bear in mind the nearest route I sign is Nottingham!)

 

[rail-britain]

I have had a quick look through the ORR documents, there is nothing "new" planned to start from 2011
I therefore think this is a request from FGW to convert two passenger turns from HST into Class 67 plus five Mark 3 coaches (possibly top and tail)
In 2012 these would transfer to GCT

As for the freight, I suspect this is to ensure the brakes do not need to be changed and can be used whatever the locos are allocated to; ScotRail sleeper, East Coast Thunderbirds, WSR, etc

 

[dubscottie]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought anything running faster than 110mph must have some sort of EP Brake (E70 Valve in a HST power Car)?

ie. When the brake is applied, the Air Brake is applied from both ends of the train at the same time electronically.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought anything running faster than 110mph must have some sort of EP Brake (E70 Valve in a HST power Car)?

ie. When the brake is applied, the Air Brake is applied from both ends of the train at the same time electronically.

Correct. Length of train comes into it as well.

As the skin of a rice pudding presents a haulage challenge for a 67, I struggle to see where this could happen on a regular basis. Unless it's a media stunt?

 

[captainbigun]

I agree, I can't see the 67s regularly reaching 125 with any sort of train behind it. Also not sure how the brake pipe control issue is resolved, this isn't covered by the AAR mods to the WSMR/Chiltern DVTs. The 67 does have a comparitively high brake force, hence it can run at 100mph light engine, so this may come into the equation.

67 plus 3x325 staggers up Shap at 35.....86/2 with 3x325 and a dead 66 manages the train limit of 75. Skin off the rice pudding? Confused by the presence of a rice pudding!

 

[IanXC]

In 2012 these would transfer to GCT

Whats GCT?

 

[Woody]

January's Railway Magazine notes that Chiltern Railways are consulting
Network Rail about running locomotive hauled (class 67) services at
125mph from May 2011.
Any connection?

 

[ainsworth74]

Any connection?

I don't see how, nowhere on the Chiltern line has a speed of 125mph as far as I know.

 

[Drimnagh Road]

I agree, I can't see the 67s regularly reaching 125 with any sort of train behind it. Also not sure how the brake pipe control issue is resolved, this isn't covered by the AAR mods to the WSMR/Chiltern DVTs. The 67 does have a comparitively high brake force, hence it can run at 100mph light engine, so this may come into the equation.

67 plus 3x325 staggers up Shap at 35.....86/2 with 3x325 and a dead 66 manages the train limit of 75. Skin off the rice pudding? Confused by the presence of a rice pudding!

Interesting reading. So, despite 3200 hp - which I would class as a powerful diesel - are we saying that they are actually underpowered?

 

[LE Greys]

Interesting reading. So, despite 3200 hp - which I would class as a powerful diesel - are we saying that they are actually underpowered?

I think he was getting at the lack of tractive effort, which given that my Platform 5 book gives 31,770lbf (about the same as an O4 just short of an 8F), can't be all that much of a problem. High gearing may not help, but I can say that 67s make 47s look like they've been welded to the rails in terms of acceleration.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I think he was getting at the lack of tractive effort, which given that my Platform 5 book gives 31,770lbf (about the same as an O4 just short of an 8F), can't be all that much of a problem. High gearing may not help, but I can say that 67s make 47s look like they've been welded to the rails in terms of acceleration.

TE, etc are just theoretical calculations, and aren't always reflected in what you get on the ground. For your comparison, think more D49 than A2! Fast and frisky for something like WSMR or the postal trains; struggle with any sort of weight behind them.

 

[rail-britain]

January's Railway Magazine notes that Chiltern Railways are consulting Network Rail about running locomotive hauled (class 67) services at 125mph from May 2011.
Any connection?

Yes, WSR had originally planned to operate their Wrexham services out of Euston, but were not permitted to do so hence why they commenced operations from Marylebone
However, it appears this restriction could be relaxed at the next timetable, although it would mean running non-stop along the WCML and losing the current route connections

 

[captainbigun]

125mph running on the WC (apart from a small stretch Wolverhampton-Stafford which allows 125 for HST/voyager) is down to use of tilt. No tilt, 110mph max. I can't see this changing.

67s have nearly half the TE of an 87 and less than half the power of an 87. OK, it's an apples and pears comparison as one isn't restricted by the engine, but makes a good point none the less.

Look at the trains that regularly run at 125mph they all have significantly more power if not more TE.

 

[TDK]

67's are no good for freight, I would imagine it is for passenger use, as for mk3's not being able to run at 125, all the HST's have Mk3's and the HST's will be taken out in the distant future freeing up hell of a lot 125 rated coaches, however, if this is the case either the DVT's need to be modified, there is top and tail or a run round it is never going to happen, a 67 will struggle to reaqch 125 on any up gradient even slight so I cannot see why DB shenker are even suggeting it. Tests have been carried out recently using 67010 that is now back at bescot.