Why does everybody hate XC?

[starrymarkb]

deleted

 

[swt_passenger]

LOL these timings of these HST services are still not convenient to me. The four HST sets are running southbound in the mornings, and northbound in the evenings.

Funnily enough, that's because XC had to meet the specific capacity problems on the middle part of the XC NE/SW axis, which are southbound to New St in the morning, and north bound from New St in the evening. As discussed at length previously, they were not actually introduced to provide a service to and from the west country, they only go down there between the peaks because it is operationally convenient.

If you want to use HSTs in the morning, you'll have to move up north...

 

[Failed Unit]

Funnily enough, that's because XC had to meet the specific capacity problems on the middle part of the XC NE/SW axis, which are southbound to New St in the morning, and north bound from New St in the evening. As discussed at length previously, they were not actually introduced to provide a service to and from the west country, they only go down there between the peaks because it is operationally convenient.

If you want to use HSTs in the morning, you'll have to move up north...

To add to these comments, they are based in Edinburgh so the need to circulate around Edinburgh. It is double Voyagers from the South West - North (or at least it used to be! I haven't seen the trains that would arrive at Edinburgh at 1215 or 1315 approx to know recently!)

 

[Class 33]

Funnily enough, that's because XC had to meet the specific capacity problems on the middle part of the XC NE/SW axis, which are southbound to New St in the morning, and north bound from New St in the evening. As discussed at length previously, they were not actually introduced to provide a service to and from the west country, they only go down there between the peaks because it is operationally convenient.

If you want to use HSTs in the morning, you'll have to move up north...

LOL I wouldn't go that far of moving up north just to be able to use the HST's in the morning(or evening)! I'll make do travelling via the alternate routes/services when heading to the Midlands or the North to avoid getting on those Voyagers..... untill such a time ever(!!) comes when more HST's or better trains than those Voyagers are running on the primary Cross Country routes and at times to suit me.

I do miss the days of being able to get one single train up to Birmingam or the north. Not possible now for me anyway, as you won't get me on those Voyagers for such journeys!

 

[Max]

Why does everyone hate XC? Well, yesterday on two short journeys (Sheffield-Leeds and back) I managed to amass 65 delay minutes, one of the two trains was wedged, reservation system was broken and there was a total lack of catering on both services. Frankly I wish I'd taken Northern.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Why does everyone hate XC? Well, yesterday on two short journeys (Sheffield-Leeds and back) I managed to amass 65 delay minutes, one of the two trains was wedged, reservation system was broken and there was a total lack of catering on both services. Frankly I wish I'd taken Northern.

when i travel sheffield to leeds (regularly between uni and home) i always take the northern barnsley express always a much nicer run, rarely late usually get a seat if not a table seat (cept peaks but even then its not ridiculous) yes theres no catering but is it needed for a journey very little over an hour?

 

[DarloRich]

Funnily enough, that's because XC had to meet the specific capacity problems on the middle part of the XC NE/SW axis, which are southbound to New St in the morning, and north bound from New St in the evening. As discussed at length previously, they were not actually introduced to provide a service to and from the west country, they only go down there between the peaks because it is operationally convenient.

If you want to use HSTs in the morning, you'll have to move up north...

When working at our offices in York i ALWAYS gert the 0813 off Darlo always an XC HST, not very full becuase all the normals get on the TPE 185 which leaves 10 minutes earlier but arrives 10 minutres later & the HST speeds past between Thirsk and York. They are comfortable, spacious, have catering and are an example of what the services could be like.

 

[MCR247]

When working at our offices in York i ALWAYS gert the 0813 off Darlo always an XC HST, not very full becuase all the normals get on the TPE 185 which leaves 10 minutes earlier but arrives 10 minutres later & the HST speeds past between Thirsk and York. They are comfortable, spacious, have catering and are an example of what the services could be like.

Now, when you say spacious, sureley you could say the same about voyagers when (on a very odd occasion, like when the world ends) the are not rammed? As when an XC HST is rammed is it still spacious?

 

[sprinterguy]

It's a shame Virgin never went ahead with their class 255 "Challenger" HST conversion plan. Though only intended as a short term stop gap measure, I'll bet that they would have been very welcome after Operation Princess became a victim of it's own success and it was discovered that four carriage DMUs just weren't up to the job on a 500 mile Intercity working, and that the "Challengers" would still be in service with XC today.

One of the best things about the old BR Crosscountry, along with quiet, comfortable carriages and proper locos, even if they did keep falling over mechanically, was that electric locos were used on sections of electrified line via a loco change at New Street: With a big fleet of fixed formation DMUs, we now have to live with diesel running on electrified lines for miles (Thinking of the West Coast Birmingham to Manchester XC, and Birmingham to Scotland Virgin services).

 

[DarloRich]

Now, when you say spacious, sureley you could say the same about voyagers when (on a very odd occasion, like when the world ends) the are not rammed? As when an XC HST is rammed is it still spacious?

perhaps i should redefine - i think there is more leg room and what i call "comfort space" on an XC HST, even more than an a BR (Sorry EC!) HST. Midland i think have the most (well the one they have on loan to BR does!) Plus the HST seasts are more comfortable and bigger - Voyager ones are like siting on a piece of wood. They are thin, narrow and uncomfortable and after about 2 hours it feels like by bum and legs have fallen off!

 

[MCR247]

perhaps i should redefine - i think there is more leg room and what i call "comfort space" on an XC HST, even more than an a BR (Sorry EC!) HST. Midland i think have the most (well the one they have on loan to BR does!) Plus the HST seasts are more comfortable and bigger - Voyager ones are like siting on a piece of wood. They are thin, narrow and uncomfortable and after about 2 hours it feels like by bum and legs have fallen off!

Sorry, I thought you meant spacious as in there isn't a load of people cramming onto the train

 

[sprinterguy]

Even on a rammed XC HST (Which does happen, just as it does on doubled up Voyagers with a decent 9 carriages), they feel more spacious, for the reasons stated above and a few others: The seats are more spacious and more comfortable and the interior is more open, due largely to a combination of having a much longer length of passenger saloon, better window spacing and better lighting, which always seems very dim and suppressed on Voyagers (Usually, I’m a fan of mellow lighting, but the sort of low lighting on a Voyager just seems oppressive!). Mainly though, an HST is a proper length for an Intercity route!

 

[DarloRich]

Sorry, I thought you meant spacious as in there isn't a load of people cramming onto the train

Well there isnt on the 0813 form Darlo (Not sure what it is like downstream!)

 

[tbtc]

Now, when you say spacious, sureley you could say the same about voyagers when (on a very odd occasion, like when the world ends) the are not rammed? As when an XC HST is rammed is it still spacious?

That's one of my things about Voyagers. If they were built long enough (or additional coaches were gradually added as required) then I'm sure people wouldn't complain about the windows/ luggage/ toilets quite as much.

However, when something has a bad reputation, we are all quick to complain about other perceived faults with it too.

I'm not saying Voyagers are perfect, far from it, but they aren't the only trains with windows that don't line up with seats*, not the only trains with dodgy toilets, not the only trains with poor luggage room... but because of the lack of seats, we hate them for all these things too

* - if "having a good view without pillars in the way" was so important then you'd expect people to prefer bus-seated-Pacers to any Sprinter etc!

 

[DarloRich]

That's one of my things about Voyagers. If they were built long enough (or additional coaches were gradually added as required) then I'm sure people wouldn't complain about the windows/ luggage/ toilets quite as much.

However, when something has a bad reputation, we are all quick to complain about other perceived faults with it too.

I'm not saying Voyagers are perfect, far from it, but they aren't the only trains with windows that don't line up with seats*, not the only trains with dodgy toilets, not the only trains with poor luggage room... but because of the lack of seats, we hate them for all these things too

* - if "having a good view without pillars in the way" was so important then you'd expect people to prefer bus-seated-Pacers to any Sprinter etc!

To be honest that is the least annoying thing about them - it is kind of accepted now that seasts and windows will have a random relationship! I dont mind a opillr next to me if i have work to do becuase it often means i get two seats to myself!

 

[Geezertronic]

I'm not saying Voyagers are perfect, far from it, but they aren't the only trains with windows that don't line up with seats*, not the only trains with dodgy toilets, not the only trains with poor luggage room... but because of the lack of seats, we hate them for all these things too

* - if "having a good view without pillars in the way" was so important then you'd expect people to prefer bus-seated-Pacers to any Sprinter etc!

[DIGRESS]And I thought it was quite funny that this weeks Railway Gazette shows pictures of the ICE train visiting St Pancras with the internal shot showing pillar facing seats (gives the Pendolino moaners something else to moan about) [/DIGRESS]

 

[Drsatan]

It's a shame Virgin never went ahead with their class 255 "Challenger" HST conversion plan. Though only intended as a short term stop gap measure, I'll bet that they would have been very welcome after Operation Princess became a victim of it's own success and it was discovered that four carriage DMUs just weren't up to the job on a 500 mile Intercity working, and that the "Challengers" would still be in service with XC today.

One of the best things about the old BR Crosscountry, along with quiet, comfortable carriages and proper locos, even if they did keep falling over mechanically, was that electric locos were used on sections of electrified line via a loco change at New Street: With a big fleet of fixed formation DMUs, we now have to live with diesel running on electrified lines for miles (Thinking of the West Coast Birmingham to Manchester XC, and Birmingham to Scotland Virgin services).

I think the SRA wouldn't fund the introduction of 'Challenger' HSTs. In fact, 'Operation Princess' was flawed from the beginning in that planners didn't forsee that passengers would prefer an hourly service where they got a seat, as opposed to a half-hourly service which was usually full and standing. Because of this the Voyagers were only ordered with four and five cars.

Hopefully when the extra four Pendolinos come into service Birmingham NS- Glasgow will transfer to Pendolino operation.

 

[MCR247]

I think they will give Liverpool its second hourly service, and actually, it Operation Princess in theory, had the same number of coaches per hour, but spread over two trains. So in theory, there would have been two equally loaded units opposed to 1 double length one

 

[Failed Unit]

I think they will give Liverpool its second hourly service, and actually, it Operation Princess in theory, had the same number of coaches per hour, but spread over two trains. So in theory, there would have been two equally loaded units opposed to 1 double length one

I have seen somewhere that yes the number of coaches are the same but the number of seats is less because of the space wasted for all those disabled toilets. So Sheffield to Birmingham has less seats than when the Hst ruled the route. However Leeds is now hourly rather than rarely.

I wonder if 1 disabled toilet would have worked with 1st and standard sharing it. Works on the 170s.

 

[MCR247]

I don't think that is allowed anymore or something, as they had to have 1 disabled toilet per class, so they have 3, as VT planned a 3 class train

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't think that is allowed anymore or something, as they had to have 1 disabled toilet per class, so they have 3, as VT planned a 3 class train

To be honest I don't know how it works. The 170s are about the same age but you could argue don't have disabled provision in first class. The 395s of course are standard only. Most new emus such as the 350s built after the voyagers also only have one but no wheelchair space in 1st. Are scotrail discriminating against disabled by not offering them a first class product. No tea and biscuits or paper?

Anyway I am sure someone knows how Dda works as a 3 car turbo with more seats than a 4 car voyager is ok with 1 disabled toilet.

Whatever the rule is xc must be cursing virgins plan for 3 classes!

 

[MCR247]

Maybe it is just for long distance Intercity routes? I have no idea about it either, but its what I was told and may not be 100%

 

[Failed Unit]

Maybe it is just for long distance Intercity routes? I have no idea about it either, but its what I was told and may not be 100%

Possible, on all Inter-City operators they have a disabled bit in both first and standard class. TPE's disabled bit although in standard is fairly exclusive on the 185s

XC is again maybe a bad example as it does not offer catering in first class (OK it may do but never in my experience, perhaps I should try and travel in the "core" area a bit more!)

If you take Virgin trains, a passenger in a wheel chair may want a quiter coach and the free meals that come with it. It is hard to do this if they are seating in a standard coach. On Scotrail the trolley can offer them the same first class goodies as anyone sat in the area. They may not want lots of standing passengers or bikes sharing the area, something that you would not tollerate on an IC journey.

 

[MCR247]

In summer I was on the 1334 NCL - RDG and got drinks to Birmingham

 

[Eric]

Only putting a four car set on when the demand is there for a six or eight car train.

The 16:25 Newcastle to Plymouth was standing only and on arrival in Leeds there must have been 70/80 people on the platform all wanting this service with few getting off the already overcrowded train.

I wouldn't expect cattle to suffer in these third world conditions so why do XC expect us to?

Maybe we we're unlucky, but a from a few people on the train, this happens all the time.

XC using a four car set 220 is taking the ****.

 

[ainsworth74]

Only putting a four car set on when the demand is there for a six or eight car train.

XC using a four car set 220 is taking the ****.

What do you propose they do? They're stuck with the rolling stock they've been given by DfT/Virgin.

 

[MCR247]

Only putting a four car set on when the demand is there for a six or eight car train.

The 16:25 Newcastle to Plymouth was standing only and on arrival in Leeds there must have been 70/80 people on the platform all wanting this service with few getting off the already overcrowded train.

I wouldn't expect cattle to suffer in these third world conditions so why do XC expect us to?

Maybe we we're unlucky, but a from a few people on the train, this happens all the time.

XC using a four car set 220 is taking the ****.

And they can do........?

 

[222007]

XC using a four car set 220 is taking the ****.

Its not like XC choose to stick 4-car voyagers on just because your travelling. My god if everyone on every train got a seat can you imagine the train lenghs in some parts of the country. come on my friend be realistic at XC we are stuck with the legacy of Virgin and the DFT we just have to work with what we are given.

 

[tbtc]

XC using a four car set 220 is taking the ****.

Whereas using five car 125mph trains on a route that takes around two hours to do the forty miles from Doncaster to Bradford is...?

 

[ainsworth74]

Whereas using five car 125mph trains on a route that takes around two hours to do the forty miles from Doncaster to Bradford is...?

You really do have an axe to grind over those GC Bradford services don't you

(But none the less, I do agree with you, waste of much need resources)