Calculating an Overdistance Excess on a Discounted ticket

[DaveNewcastle]

I'm puzzling over an Excess I asked for today. Even after looking at all the possible ticket prices available I still can't work out how the cost was calculated!

I was travelling from Dalmeny (DAM)(and the site of my avatar) to Newcastle (NCL) but my ticket was only from Dalmeny to Berwick-upon-Tweed. It was the Return portion of a special offer ticket costing £22 (for the return journey).

What might be confusing me is that I had already travelled part of my journey on the ticket to get from Dalmeny to Edinburgh and was then on an East Coast service when getting the Excess (which wasn't going to be stopping at Berwick). I was travelling outside the Peak.

The most expensive Std class Single I can see for DAM-NCL is £53.50 (there don't seem to be any others other than Advances).
The Returns are £107.00 (others at £56.00 and £54.30)
And the most expensive Std class Single I can see for EDB-NCL is £42.00 (all others are Advances)
The most expensive Return is £84.00 (others at £45.50 and £44.30)

So, what would you expect the cost of the Excess to be?
£53.50 - all or half of £22 ?
£42.00 - all of half of £22 ?
Half of £107.00 - half of £22 ?
Half of £84.00 - half of £22 ?

BTW Just in case you want to deduct the cost of the DAM-EDB portion from the calculation:
a Single DAM - EDB is £3.60
an Off Peak Return is £3.80

It was £30.50
The Excess ticket says it is an Overdistance Excess Single from Dalmeny - Newcastle
Can someone explain the calculation, please?
Cheers
(I do feel sorry for the staff who are expected to know these are to be calculated while en route - particularly if I can take as long as I want in order to try every permutation and I still can't see it)

 

[John @ home]

what would you expect the cost of the Excess to be?

I would have expected

SOS Dalmeny - Newcastle £53.50
minus fare already paid £22.00
= £31.50

 

[transportphoto]

If you are excessing the one portion of a Return Ticket then this is the calculation...

Difference in Fares (to a similar ticket, e.g Off-Peak Day Return will be excessed to a Off Peak Day Return), £78.50 - £22 = £56.50, halved (because you only want to excess one direction), £28.25.

Have you got a scan of the ticket we can have a look at?
I ask because there are some obvious things which can be wrong which are hard to get clear via descriptions.

 

[Nick W]

I don't see why the discount should pay a part in the excess, so I'd price it at half the difference between the un-discounted cost of the ticket you had, and the un-discounted off-peak return ticket between Dalmeany and Newcastle.

 

[transportphoto]

I don't see why the discount should pay a part in the excess, so I'd price it at half the difference between the un-discounted cost of the ticket you had, and the un-discounted off-peak return ticket between Dalmeany and Newcastle.

Dave, could you give the details of the £22 ticket you held, ticket type, railcards etc...

And if it was purchased during a promotional period, which was only available online or similar. Or if the promotional fare didn't exist down to Newcastle

TIA,

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I would have expected

SOS Dalmeny - Newcastle £53.50
minus fare already paid £22.00
= £31.50

Yes. That was my first selection from the actual figures. So soooo close to the actual fare of £30.50!

If you are excessing the one portion of a Return Ticket then this is the calculation...

Difference in Fares (to a similar ticket, e.g Off-Peak Day Return will be excessed to a Off Peak Day Return), £78.50 - £22 = £56.50, halved (because you only want to excess one direction), £28.25.

Sorry, I Can't see the £78.20 fare anywhere. Where did you see that one?

Dave, could you give the details of the £22 ticket you held, ticket type, railcards etc...

Yes, it was one of these:
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/club55. I really didn't want to complicate things, but for the point of this promotion, Berwick and Carlisle are considered to be in Scotland, but journeys between them are not. (Please, lets just not get into that right now! Please!) NO Railcards, etc. All the info about ticket prices are in my first post and in Avantix.

And if it was purchased during a promotional period, which was only available online or similar. Or if the promotional fare didn't exist down to Newcastle

As above.

I don't see why the discount should pay a part in the excess, so I'd price it at half the difference between the un-discounted cost of the ticket you had, and the un-discounted off-peak return ticket between Dalmeany and Newcastle.

I think you have it Nick!

The equilvalent non-discounted ticket an SSR (Super Off Peak Return) for DAM-BWK is £23.20
So if we take John's calculation, but use the SSR of £23.20, we get

SOS Dalmeny - Newcastle £53.50
minus NON DISCOUNTED EQUIVALENT fare already paid £23.20
= £30.30

which, to the nearest 50p, is the Excess fare as calculated: £30.50

Well done!

 

[scotsman]

(Sorry if i'm embarrassing you here) Am I right in thinking this is the promotional ScotRail "Club55" ticket? (valid all operators, Senior Rcd discount, no breaking except to change trains)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

(Sorry if i'm embarrassing you here) Am I right in thinking this is the promotional ScotRail "Club55" ticket?

Exactly correct (I'd just posted that above while you were typing). No embarrassment, but thanks for asking. (Quite a few on here know me well enough and my posts sometimes refer back to pervious times). My age is not an embarrassment! Being unable to do (what should be) a simple sum has been, though!

Just promise me that we're not going to debate Berwick and Carlisle being in Scotland!

Do we agree that Nick and John have solved it, or not?

I can't see that its completely solved. The Excess is NOT

half the difference between the un-discounted cost of the ticket you had, and the un-discounted off-peak return ticket between Dalmeany and Newcastle.

which would be ( £54.30 - £23.50 ) / 2 = £15.40
Because we know that the Excess Fare is £30.50

Is the answer that the Excess calculation is :-
the equivalent single (in this case SOS) minus the NON DISCOUNTED EQUIVALENT fare for the Return journey already paid (both legs of the return)?
£53.50 - £23.20 = £30.30 (then rounded up to £30.50)

Perhaps we can keep on puzzling about this a little longer?
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
I'll change the thread title to include "on a Discounted ticket".

 

[yorkie]

I know this doesn't answer the question but it would have been cheaper to get a train that called at Berwick. £18.90 on East Coast (for an Any Permitted) SOS, or £14.70 for an XC Only SOS. In fact, First Class would have been cheaper, at £26.90 FOS and £25.50 FOS respectively.

DAM - NCL SSR is £54.30. You had already paid £22. The difference is £32.30 I believe you should be charged half this difference for one leg, however this is open to debate.

Excesses can be a lottery, so I prefer to get them at stations and if I don't like the price, to go elsewhere.

I was travelling from Dalmeny (DAM)(and the site of my avatar) to Newcastle (NCL) but my ticket was only from Dalmeny to Berwick-upon-Tweed. It was the Return portion of a special offer ticket costing £22 (for the return journey).

This doesn't seem a good deal (am I missing something?) DAM - BWK is priced as follows for undiscounted tickets:
£23.20 SSR (Valid at or after 0930)
£23.90 SVR (Valid any scheduled train)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If it was determined that there was 'no opportunity' to buy the excess ticket before boarding a train you should be charged the single fare for the journey not covered by your ticket (Edinburgh-Newcastle because the train does not stop at Berwick), or, if it is cheaper, half the difference between the ticket held and the cheapest return ticket available for immediate travel.

£42 (SOS EDB-NCL), or (£54.30-£22)/2 = £16.15 (1/2 the SSR DAM-NCL).

If it was determined that there was opportunity to buy before boarding a train you should pay the price of the single/return for the journey not covered by your ticket (Edinburgh-Newcastle), or, if it is cheaper, the difference between the ticket you hold and half of the full return ticket for your journey.

£42 (SOS EDB-NCL), or (£107-£22)/2 = £42.50 (1/2 the SOR DAM-NCL)

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If it was determined that there was 'no opportunity' to buy the excess ticket before boarding a train

I omitted to mention this. There would have been an opportunity to buy. Good point.

If it was determined that there was opportunity to buy before boarding a train you should pay the price of the single/return for the journey not covered by your ticket (Edinburgh-Newcastle), . . . £42 (SOS EDB-NCL)

The guard did offer me a full replacement ticket - it was me who asked him if he could issue an o/d Excess, and he agreed.

a special offer ticket costing £22 (for the return journey)

This doesn't seem a good deal (am I missing something?) DAM - BWK is priced as follows for undiscounted tickets:
£23.20 SSR (Valid at or after 0930)
£23.90 SVR (Valid any scheduled train)

No, but its the ticket I had (the fixed price of £22 also applies to much longer journeys and some people will be using them in that way)

You are also right that I could have saved some money by waiting 30mins for a service which stopped at Berwick - but that's not the point - I wanted to travel at that time and was willing to pay. Its the uncertainty about the calculation that interests me.

Excesses can be a lottery . . .

This is the belief which the differering views on here are leading me to. I was hoping for a broader concensus; or at least a smaller number of possible solutions! I'm grateful for the replies, but I'm not confident that we have a single, definitive answer to the question.

 

[yorkie]

If it was determined that there was 'no opportunity' to buy the excess ticket before boarding a train you should be charged the single fare for the journey not covered by your ticket (Edinburgh-Newcastle because the train does not stop at Berwick), or, if it is cheaper, half the difference between the ticket held and the cheapest return ticket available for immediate travel.

£42 (SOS EDB-NCL), or (£54.30-£22)/2 = £16.15 (1/2 the SSR DAM-NCL).

If it was determined that there was opportunity to buy before boarding a train you should pay the price of the single/return for the journey not covered by your ticket (Edinburgh-Newcastle), or, if it is cheaper, the difference between the ticket you hold and half of the full return ticket for your journey.

£42 (SOS EDB-NCL), or (£107-£22)/2 = £42.50 (1/2 the SOR DAM-NCL)

I'm not sure I agree with that, but it is certainly true that some guards will look to 'punish' you for buying on board, whether legitimately or not, by interpreting the rules in their favour, and East Coast are as desperate as they come in that regard (especially NCL-based crews).

Did the guard attempt to determine if there was opportunity at Dalmeny to obtain the excess? And, if there was no opportunity, then to determine the interchange time at Edinburgh to determine if there was sufficient time there? (However the question of how much time is required is subjective)

If the guard did not attempt to determine that, it suggests one of two things:-
1) It doesn't make a difference, and the guard therefore calculated it wrong; or
2) the guard was unfairly 'punishing' the OP and effectively 'trying it on' by charging a higher excess as he knows you can't do much to stop him.

 

[Greenback]

There is a great deal of confusion about excesses, and there was a decade ago when I was in the booking office. Some are relatively simple, but in other cases there are so many aspects to consider, such as whether there was an opportunity to buy before boarding, it's no wonder there's a range of possibilities amongst all the answers!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . but it is certainly true that some guards will look to 'punish' you for buying on board, whether legitimately or not, by interpreting the rules in their favour, and East Coast are as desperate as they come in that regard (especially NCL-based crews).

Did the guard attempt to determine if there was opportunity at Dalmeny to obtain the excess? And, if there was no opportunity, then to determine the interchange time at Edinburgh to determine if there was sufficient time there?

. . .

If the guard did not attempt to determine that, it suggests one of two things:-
1) It doesn't make a difference, and the guard therefore calculated it wrong; or
2) the guard was unfairly 'punishing' the OP and effectively 'trying it on' by charging a higher excess as he knows you can't do much to stop him.

(The truth is, I don't know what range of tickets are available from Dalmeny if I'd even attempted to buy there, which I didn't. When I started at Dalmeny, I was casually thinking I might take a later EC train which might stop at Berwick and in the process, have more time in EDB - but circumstances changed).

I hope I haven't cast any doubt on the guard's approach to my travel. I think our short discussion was as constructive and pleasant as I could have wished! And to be clear, it was me who asked if he could Excess the ticket which I held - he could have refused and I would have been quite content. It was me who was in need to travel urgently, I even apologised for being in the wrong (travelling without a valid ticket).

But the point is:- is there a process which leads to one single answer to the question - what is the cost of an over-distance Excess on the return leg of a journey where the train is not scheduled to stop at the station which is the destination on the ticket ?

There is a great deal of confusion about excesses, . . . . it's no wonder there's a range of possibilities amongst all the answers!

I guess the answer is "no".

 

[yorkie]

The guard should offer the cheapest option to you.

But the point is:- is there a process which leads to one single answer to the question - what is the cost of an over-distance Excess on the return leg of a journey where the train is not scheduled to stop at the station which is the destination on the ticket ?

If the train does stop, then a single (or return, if requested) from the destination on the ticket to the destination of the passenger, should be offered rather than an excess, if it is cheaper.

If the train does not stop, then unless the guard is being lenient, that option is no longer available, this means that almost certainly the most appropriate action is to excess the ticket, rather than selling an additional ticket. (In some cases, it may be cheaper to offer a replacement ticket from the previous calling point, e.g. if your train had called at Dunbar, to your destination. If the train had called at Dunbar it would have been £23.50 on EC or £18.50 on XC)

The cheapest option (excess or additional ticket) must be offered, and you should not have to ask them to look up a particular option. The only thing you should have to ask for, would be to split the ticket if applicable e.g. if the train called at Alnmouth and if that was cheaper, you'd have to ask for that combination, as they can't offer that.

 

[reb0118]

I could be wrong here but can you excess a Club 55 ticket? I think not - but will check today at work if possible.

I seem to remember no changes to travel plans once purchased - remembering that the return portion is open so to speak - but I'm sure that you cannot change the origin or destination.

As a side issue - if you travel during the peak with a club55 ticket are you excessed up to the relevant walk up fare for the train you are on OR is a new ticket required?

 

[cuccir]

The cheapest option (excess or additional ticket) must be offered, and you should not have to ask them to look up a particular option.

Yes, but I think it's fairly clear that from the discussions we've had it wasn't immediately obvious on the train: a. whether the excess or the new ticket was the cheapest option and b. whether an excess should be issued in these circumstances. So having to ask whether an excess is possible is not unreasonable in this circumstance!

I could be wrong here but can you excess a Club 55 ticket? I think not - but will check today at work if possible.

I seem to remember no changes to travel plans once purchased - remembering that the return portion is open so to speak - but I'm sure that you cannot change the origin or destination.

From the website:

"Can I make a change to my travel plans?×
You cannot change your date of outward travel once the ticket has been purchased.
Your return travel can be made any time within one month from outward travel date.
Can I break my journey? ×
You cannot break your journey other than for connectional purposes."

So you can't change date, but it doesn't mention destination.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I could be wrong here but can you excess a Club 55 ticket? I think not -

I can see no reason why not.

As a side issue - if you travel during the peak with a club55 ticket are you excessed up to the relevant walk up fare for the train you are on OR is a new ticket required?

I can see no reason why a Club55 ticket cannot be excessed to an Anytime. That does link to the question we had a few posts back about using the price of the already ticket paid-for, or the value of the EQUIVALENT NON-DISCOUNTED ticket for peak travel. In this case it would make a mockery of the Excess if its calculation is based on the value of the EQUIVALENT NON-DISCOUNTED ticket!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Another factor which has led to the inconsistency in the replies on this thread is: when calculating an o/d Excess which involves a break of journey (BoJ) to make a connection, which part of the return journey is used to select the fare for the "immediate travel"?
There is a necessary BoJ at Edinburgh (EDB)
Nick_W and John @ home took it to be DAM-NCL while hairyhandedfool took it to be EDB-NCL
Is this simply a consequence of our frequently debated lack of a robust definition for "a journey"?

 

[yorkie]

A break of journey is not necessary in any journey, as BOJ is defined as leaving railway premises other than for the purposes of changing trains at another station.

Examples that are NOT a break of journey:-
Walking from Birmingham New St to Birmingham Snow Hill/Moor St;
Having a lunch in the Wetherspoon pup in Leeds station;
Spotting trains for an hour at York station;
Taking a tube from Euston to Charing Cross
(and so on...)

The only relevance a BOJ may have is if the guard is deeming the original ticket invalid due to a breach of a condition prohibiting BOJ. I do not know what action could/should be taken in such a case.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

As far as I can work it out, the Excess should be calculated as follows-

Input From Newcastle to Dalmeny. Select most appropriate fare, which is the cheapest fare available for travel at the time you are travelling, in this case I'll assume after 0930, in which case the SSR of £54.30 applies.
Press Excess.
Select Over Distance.
Select Journey Leg = Return.
Enter original ticket price of £22.00.
Enter start date and ticket number of original ticket.
Press OK, avantix reckons XS is £16.10.

What I think may have happenned is that the Guard has not been familiar with how to XS tickets and got into a muddle. The closest thing I can see is that he has done something like take the Dalmeny to Newcastle SOS £53.50, then deducted the fare paid of £22.00 which = £31.50, and probably an input error by pressing a 3 instead of a 2 brings it to £30.50. Either way, the OP has, in my opinion, been overcharged.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
ps - on the basis that the OP's Excess Ticket said "Over Distance Sgl" implies that the Excess fare was calculated based around Single fares in the first place. To the OP - On the top right of the Excess ticket does it say OUT, RTN or SGL.?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Another factor which has led to the inconsistency in the replies on this thread is: when calculating an o/d Excess which involves a break of journey (BoJ) to make a connection, which part of the return journey is used to select the fare for the "immediate travel"?
There is a necessary BoJ at Edinburgh (EDB)
Nick_W and John @ home took it to be DAM-NCL while hairyhandedfool took it to be EDB-NCL
Is this simply a consequence of our frequently debated lack of a robust definition for "a journey"?

I think I need to clarify. This has nothing to do with 'Break of Journey', the instructions in the FRPP say you should be given a single for the part of the journey not covered by your ticket.

In this case, because the train did not stop at Berwick, the part of the journey not covered by your ticket extends to the last stop before Berwick that the train did stop at (I presumed this was Edinburgh, but if it stopped at another station before Berwick then that station would be used). This is not an excess fare.

However, it then goes on to say that if an 'over-riding' (over distance) excess is cheaper it may be offered, the excess would be to a ticket between Newcastle and Dalmeny. The price of the excess depends on the facilities available before you boarded a train and, in some cases, the guard on the train.

In other words, you should have been offered the cheaper of the EDB-NCL single or the DAM-NCL excess. The price of the excess willl depend on the facilities available to buy the ticket before you board a train* (in theory) and the guard/TM on the train (in practice).

[*In parts the of the FRPP it says 'a train' and in other parts it says 'the train', however the NCoC only makes reference to the station where you started the journey.]

 

[DaveNewcastle]

@kwvr45 it was a Single excess. SGL

 

[yorkie]

kwvr45 is correct (as usual!) and I believe the guard may have been confused and/or given insufficient training

 

[Solent&Wessex]

@kwvr45 it was a Single excess. SGL

In that case the XS fare has been calculated based around a Single fare. I.e as a starting point a Single fare has been selected, which is incorrect. When doing any XS on a Return ticket the appropriate Return fare should be used as a starting point and the relevant direction of travel selected. This will allow correct calculation of the XS and also see that the XS ticket shows the correct direction of travel to match the original ticket - i.e OUT or RTN.

 

[b0b]

Input From Newcastle to Dalmeny. Select most appropriate fare, which is the cheapest fare available for travel at the time you are travelling, in this case I'll assume after 0930, in which case the SSR of £54.30 applies.

Why wouldn't you use the price of the undiscounted ticket, since the OP probably had opportunity to buy at NCL?

or is that not relevant to excesses?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

@kwvr45 I am inclined to agree that the Excess of a return should be based on the prices of a return. (This can lead to anomalies, we know, which we shouldn't allow to distract us here!).

Input From Newcastle to Dalmeny. Select most appropriate fare, which is the cheapest fare available for travel at the time you are travelling, in this case I'll assume after 0930, in which case the SSR of £54.30 applies.

Why wouldn't you use the price of the undiscounted ticket, since the OP probably had opportunity to buy at NCL?

or is that not relevant to excesses?

@kwvr45 Yes, after 9:30. (dep DAM at 9:59, dep EDB at 10:30) and so an SSR would have been valid.

@b0b "to buy at NCL?" Theoretically, yes, but my choice to take 10:30 off EDB was made in haste during the brief DAM-EDB leg of the journey and I was entirely responsible for not giving my self the time to go to ticket office but instead board the ABD-KGX just arriving in the adjacent platform.

I see more sense in using the price of the equivalent un-discounted ticket, when subtracting, and also more benefit to an operator (who isn't the owner of the discount scheme) in using the price of the discounted ticket. But I can't see any guidance which helps us to choose which price to use.
The phrase "price of the ticket held" (or similar wording) implies the discounted value, though common sense tells me that if we're going to "subtract the value" of the ticket held, and the reasons or conditions for its discount don't apply when Excessing, then the discount shouldn't be used in the subtraction.
In this particular case, its very simple: a Scottish Club55 discount could never be applicable to a journey within England, so I wouldn't expect the subtraction to be the discounted value. My guess (after all your contributions) is it should be the £54:30 undiscounted return EDB-NCL less the value of the (equivalent undiscounted) ticket held.

But is this unambiguously defined anywhere?

 

[yorkie]

Why wouldn't you use the price of the undiscounted ticket, since the OP probably had opportunity to buy at NCL?

or is that not relevant to excesses?

This journey was from Dalmeny and was excessed to Newcastle, not from Newcastle. The ticket office staff go home at the time the OP was due to catch his train, so they would probably have closed before departure. In any case, the OP asked for the excess before reaching the point where his previous ticket had expired. I see no reason whatsoever for penalising the OP, however if EC wanted to penalise the OP (I do not believe the rules allow them to do so) they would need to have established whether or not Dalmeny ticket office was open at the time of departure. Also, is Dalmeny ticket office capable of issuing excesses? Many small ticket offices do not have a clue how to issue excesses. I know, as many people have told me they have great difficulty getting excesses issued.

I do not believe you are reading topics properly before responding in some cases, b0b. The question about "undiscounted" or "discounted" ticket held is referring to the fact that DAM-BWK is normally £23.20 or £23.90 (depending on departure time) however in this case it was discounted to £22.00

The undiscounted price, of £23.20 or £23.90 should not be discounted from the excess, the discounted price of £22.00 should be discounted as the OP only paid £22.00! The OP would have been undercharged if the correct method was chosen and if the undiscounted fare was credited.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was entirely responsible for not giving my self the time to go to ticket office but instead board the ABD-KGX just arriving in the adjacent platform.

If this is a question regarding 'opportunity to pay before boarding', you are absolutely entitled to make such an interchange without being penalised. There is no requirement to seek a ticket office at an interchange station if it would require you missing a train. If you had, say, 30 minutes to wait at Edinburgh Waverley between trains, then you clearly have sufficient time. The problem is that the question of what is sufficient time is subjective, and if you had, say, 10 or 15 minutes, it would be a debatable point.

This issue cropped up in a topic approx 1 year ago when a customer was penalised by XC for not delaying their journey at an interchange station.

A member of this forum told me privately that his journey from a Scottish origin point prior to Edinburgh was charged at a full Anytime fare by an EC guard acting incorrectly who claimed the customer should have delayed his journey to buy before boarding. He successfully got his money back (or appealed his UPFN - I can't remember which) as EC management agreed the guard was incorrect under the NRCoC.

Some staff (a small minority but a more significant minority at EC) do 'try it on' and this can lead to customers believing they have less rights than they do, and the myth can spread.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I think we need to clarify some more...

• A 'non-discounted fare' is one that is listed in the NFM/FRPP before a Railcard (or similar) discount is applied. Super Off-Peak Returns, Off-Peak Returns, and Club 55 tickets are non-discounted fares.
  
  
• A 'discounted fare' is one that has been reduced from that shown in the NFM/FRPP by a Railcard (or similar). Super Off-Peak Returns, Off-Peak Returns, and Club 55 tickets purchased with a railcard discount are discounted fares.
  
  
• An 'Opportunity to buy' is where, at the start of 'your journey' there were no facilities for you to buy the ticket that you need. This does not excuse long queues at the ticket office, or your late arrival at the station.
  
  It could be argued that if you went out of your way to seek another ticket office 'on route' that you had an opportunity to buy a ticket, this is not covered in excess fares though.
  
  
• When dealing with Excess Fares, the price of the ticket held is ALWAYS the price printed on the ticket.
  
  
• For Excess Fares where 'there was no opportunity to buy', railcard (or similar) discounts apply to the total cost of the new fare as if that had been bought in the first place. Thus a Senior Railcard discounted Club 55 fare would be excessed to a Senior Railcard discounted Super Off-Peak Return (or Off-Peak Return).
  
  
• Where 'there was opportunity to buy', Railcard (or similar) discounts DO NOT apply to most Excess Fares, even if the original ticket was discounted.

 

[reb0118]

I queried excessing Club55 tickets and was told by a Revenue Manager that I was under no circumstnces to do so as Club55 have separate rules to regular walk up fares.

 

[John @ home]

I queried excessing Club55 tickets and was told by a Revenue Manager that I was under no circumstnces to do so as Club55 have separate rules to regular walk up fares.

This may depend on which set of Club 55 tickets. TPE's Club 55 tickets were route TPE only. ScotRail's Club 55 tickets, which DaveNewcastle was using, were route Any Permitted. We have heard previously on this forum about restrictions on excessing a ticket valid on one TOC only. These restrictions were said not to apply to route Any Permitted tickets.