Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion

[DunsBus]

Any news on when 20 and 63 will be transferred? Even thought people claimed it would have happened already covid or not.

It's now supposed to be the end of August/early September for the 20 and 63 going over to First. The LB registrations for the services run up to 31st August. As it would mean a midweek handover, I'd say that the first weekend in September looks likely.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Saw a Service 10 today, front LED had a via sector (said via Bonnington). Is this to help with the diversions?
Also, saw an X18 and it doesn't seem to say via (Place) anymore, instead it just says 2 places the bus will pass.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Saw a Service 10 today, front LED had a via sector (said via Bonnington). Is this to help with the diversions?
Also, saw an X18 and it doesn't seem to say via (Place) anymore, instead it just says 2 places the bus will pass.

The X27/X28 are the same, I know they used to say something like via St John’s or Livingston Centre

Honestly it would probably be better for the Lothian network to incorporate scrolling blinds underneath the destinations, especially for certain services for better clarity and confusion
some examples

4/5 - Both go to the Jewel and Oxgangs, but split in different areas like the 5 via Morningside and Newington and the 4 via Slateford and Bingham

10- Fine example with the new diversion as most folk will want to know which bus to get on to avoid Easter Road

21- goes via Sighthill for Clovenstone journeys and goes via Edinburgh Park for Gyle journeys

26- Goes to Meadowmill for Tranent journeys and via Port Seton for Seton Sand journeys

34/35 - Both go Riccarton - Ocean Terminal, so pretty obvious that folk need to know which one goes via Longstone/City/Lochend (34) and Saughton/Royal Mile/Easter Road (35)

37/47 - Another fine obvious example, one serves the P&R while the other doesn’t

48/49 - Both run to Fort Kinnaird and share the route between Dalkeith and RIE so would be handy for residents to know which one will save them an hour and a half through Leith

113/124 - One serves Willowbrae and the other Portobello but otherwise runs the same route between Town and Wallyford so again might be handy

X27/X28 - as they made the effort before with a via screen during launch! im surprised they changed it!

but besides that you get the picture!!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I've seen photos of a lot of buses going around with the route diverted symbol on the destination blind - I assume they're diverted due to the Leith tramworks?

Regardless, Lothian are one of the very few companies to advertise "route diverted" on the destination blind, and I'm not a fan of it. It's rather superfluous IMO.

 

[CN04NRJ]

I've seen photos of a lot of buses going around with the route diverted symbol on the destination blind - I assume they're diverted due to the Leith tramworks?

Regardless, Lothian are one of the very few companies to advertise "route diverted" on the destination blind, and I'm not a fan of it. It's rather superfluous IMO.

Why? It advises people if they aren't already aware that the route is diverted - avoiding complaints to the driver that they've "gone the wrong way" or prompting people to ask the driver where it's diverted to, perhaps making another route a better option for them depending on the diversion. It's extra information - if anything I think far more companies should do it.

 

[Bus9120UK]

I've seen photos of a lot of buses going around with the route diverted symbol on the destination blind - I assume they're diverted due to the Leith tramworks?

Regardless, Lothian are one of the very few companies to advertise "route diverted" on the destination blind, and I'm not a fan of it. It's rather superfluous IMO.

Many past complaints have caused these to be added, I am personally a fan of these, but not a fan of the Part Route Signs. Many people won't know if its diverted either for some reason. Agree with CN04NRJ.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The X27/X28 are the same, I know they used to say something like via St John’s or Livingston Centre

Honestly it would probably be better for the Lothian network to incorporate scrolling blinds underneath the destinations, especially for certain services for better clarity and confusion
some examples

4/5 - Both go to the Jewel and Oxgangs, but split in different areas like the 5 via Morningside and Newington and the 4 via Slateford and Bingham

10- Fine example with the new diversion as most folk will want to know which bus to get on to avoid Easter Road

21- goes via Sighthill for Clovenstone journeys and goes via Edinburgh Park for Gyle journeys

26- Goes to Meadowmill for Tranent journeys and via Port Seton for Seton Sand journeys

34/35 - Both go Riccarton - Ocean Terminal, so pretty obvious that folk need to know which one goes via Longstone/City/Lochend (34) and Saughton/Royal Mile/Easter Road (35)

37/47 - Another fine obvious example, one serves the P&R while the other doesn’t

48/49 - Both run to Fort Kinnaird and share the route between Dalkeith and RIE so would be handy for residents to know which one will save them an hour and a half through Leith

113/124 - One serves Willowbrae and the other Portobello but otherwise runs the same route between Town and Wallyford so again might be handy

X27/X28 - as they made the effort before with a via screen during launch! im surprised they changed it!

but besides that you get the picture!!

Correct me if I am wrong but did Richard Hall not hate that, and thus got rid of them, so now he has gone, we might actually get that part back. VIA points are extremely valuable not just to tourists but locals too.

I much preferred the dual screen on the front though, such as this https://www.flickr.com/photos/131358468@N02/26001500700 and still wonder why these screens were removed and replaced with the single display.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Correct me if I am wrong but did Richard Hall not hate that, and thus got rid of them, so now he has gone, we might actually get that part back. VIA points are extremely valuable not just to tourists but locals too.

I much preferred the dual screen on the front though, such as this https://www.flickr.com/photos/131358468@N02/26001500700 and still wonder why these screens were removed and replaced with the single display.

Personally those screens looked awful and I am glad they where removed.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Each to their own. I personally would have had the screens the other way, so the destination at the top and the via points below, however I think that those screens were good as it gave a lot of information and was a good size, even for those with visual impairment issues. With the single screen, the via points are smaller font, and thus might be harder to see for those who have partial sight for example.

 

[Lothiangem22]

Does anyone know the latest on new deliveries? I notice ADL have been active on twitter promoting recent deliveries to other operators and Lothian’s new buses were “not far off” at the start of lockdown.
As a longstone driver I’m keen to know if any of these are visible in the yard in Falkirk yet...

 

[cnjb8]

Does anyone know the latest on new deliveries? I notice ADL have been active on twitter promoting recent deliveries to other operators and Lothian’s new buses were “not far off” at the start of lockdown.
As a longstone driver I’m keen to know if any of these are visible in the yard in Falkirk yet...

They have restarted deliveries from Scarborough.

 

[buslad1988]

Does anyone know the latest on new deliveries? I notice ADL have been active on twitter promoting recent deliveries to other operators and Lothian’s new buses were “not far off” at the start of lockdown.
As a longstone driver I’m keen to know if any of these are visible in the yard in Falkirk yet...

Double deck order for this year is cancelled (except a handful of electric). Single deck order was too far advanced to cancel. They are Volvo but bodywork still unconfirmed, so don’t assume it’s ADL.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Does anyone know the latest on new deliveries? I notice ADL have been active on twitter promoting recent deliveries to other operators and Lothian’s new buses were “not far off” at the start of lockdown.
As a longstone driver I’m keen to know if any of these are visible in the yard in Falkirk yet...

Same here, I don't mind doing the 30 but not a fan of the 7900s. Shame the 04-58 B7RLEs probably won't hit the road again though.

As an aside, with 1-10 now 7 years old will they be due battery replacement/full diesel conversion by this point? Same goes for 11-50 next year?

 

[OmniCity999]

Does anyone know the latest on new deliveries? I notice ADL have been active on twitter promoting recent deliveries to other operators and Lothian’s new buses were “not far off” at the start of lockdown.
As a longstone driver I’m keen to know if any of these are visible in the yard in Falkirk yet...

New deckers have been delayed bar 4 full electrics, which are the City type as opposed to the MMC body style. These are believed to be (but not confirmed) for the city centre free bus.

New singles believed to be B8RLE's with ADL single deck bodywork, which if this is the case, are being built in Scarborough as im sure ADL build large single deck orders in England.

A longer wheelbase tri-axle single deck (in all over white) was seen en-route to cummins for emissions testing**. This is believed not to be for Lothian as it has the wrong interior and its second door is a half size single leaf - which would be a better idea IMO, at least for a single deck bus.

**believed to be for New Zealand

 

[Jordan Adam]

A longer wheelbase tri-axle single deck (in all over white) was seen en-route to cummins for emissions testing**. This is believed not to be for Lothian as it has the wrong interior and its second door is a half size single leaf - which would be a better idea IMO, at least for a single deck bus.

**believed to be for New Zealand

You are correct, the bus in question is a 12.8M Enviro200XLB integral built for New Zealand, a number of people have mistaken it as one of Lothians new buses which isn't the case. I'm not sure on the legality of a single leaf rear door in the UK, also the fact it's under 13M long and tri-axle gives away that it's not for the Uk.

 

[CN04NRJ]

You are correct, the bus in question is a 12.8M Enviro200XLB integral built for New Zealand, a number of people have mistaken it as one of Lothians new buses which isn't the case. I'm not sure on the legality of a single leaf rear door in the UK, also the fact it's under 13M long and tri-axle gives away that it's not for the Uk.

Also I couldn't see Lothian going for an all ADL product with a Cummins engine, don't understand how anybody thought that was for Lothian - the interior alone was a giveaway.

 

[OmniCity999]

You are correct, the bus in question is a 12.8M Enviro200XLB integral built for New Zealand, a number of people have mistaken it as one of Lothians new buses which isn't the case. I'm not sure on the legality of a single leaf rear door in the UK, also the fact it's under 13M long and tri-axle gives away that it's not for the Uk.

Exactly, ECB's B8RLE's are 13.2m!

I think any new tri-axles delivered will be rear steer. As the 400XLB's not having rear steer was a decision from the top, which while it works, doesnt make sense. Long term, its proving to be okay in terms of maintenance, but the decision against rear steer was a maintenance one.

Also I couldn't see Lothian going for an all ADL product with a Cummins engine, don't understand how anybody thought that was for Lothian - the interior alone was a giveaway.

Volvo Chassis / Engine is the preferred choice. Although the new electric deckers wont be Volvo, sadly. Volvo stuff is cracking to drive, you often forget you're driving a bus... until a passenger comes on, ofcourse.

I look forward to new deliveries!

 

[ScotRail158725]

New deckers have been delayed bar 4 full electrics, which are the City type as opposed to the MMC body style.

sounds like an Enviro400EV?

 

[CN04NRJ]

sounds like an Enviro400EV?

I'm assuming that's what they're calling the BYD chassis version? (I'm not sure). Glad they've gone for those over Optare or whatever other electric DDs are on the market.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'm assuming that's what they're calling the BYD chassis version? (I'm not sure). Glad they've gone for those over Optare or whatever other electric DDs are on the market.

aye its BYD chasis, that and optare are tbe only 2 likely ones i can think of and if its ADL body it will almost certainly not be optare chasis

 

[OmniCity999]

aye its BYD chasis, that and optare are tbe only 2 likely ones i can think of and if its ADL body it will almost certainly not be optare chasis

Their BYD chassis and ADL City body. ADL don't offer their own full electric vehicle. Their all BYD.

 

[CN04NRJ]

aye its BYD chasis, that and optare are tbe only 2 likely ones i can think of and if its ADL body it will almost certainly not be optare chasis

Oh no, I meant there's some other type of E400 with a similar name. After looking it up it's the E400 ER hybrid I was thinking of, I confused it with the EV.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Oh no, I meant there's some other type of E400 with a similar name. After looking it up it's the E400 ER hybrid I was thinking of, I confused it with the EV.

Risking going off topic but those are basically just bog standard E400 Hybrids but with the agility to run in electric mode for a short period of time.

I'm assuming that's what they're calling the BYD chassis version? (I'm not sure). Glad they've gone for those over Optare or whatever other electric DDs are on the market.

Nice enough vehicles but the lower deck interior layout is poor and the build quality on the upper deck of the E400City is very questionable imo.

 

[CN04NRJ]

Risking going off topic but those are basically just bog standard E400 Hybrids but with the agility to run in electric mode for a short period of time.



Nice enough vehicles but the lower deck interior layout is poor and the build quality on the upper deck of the E400City is very questionable imo.

Which factory are the E400Citys built in? In my experience driving Plaxton/Alexander/Transbus/ADL I've found anything that's come out of Falkirk to be built far better than Scarborough vehicles. But alas, that's another topic.

If they're taking E400City styled vehicles is it possible we could see the single decks with the E200 MMC styled front end? As Omnicity99 suggested earlier on in the thread that they're likely to have E400MMC style front ends to enable better fleet standardisation. That's assuming the new single decks are ADL of course.

 

[OmniCity999]

Which factory are the E400Citys built in? In my experience driving Plaxton/Alexander/Transbus/ADL I've found anything that's come out of Falkirk to be built far better than Scarborough vehicles. But alas, that's another topic.

If they're taking E400City styled vehicles is it possible we could see the single decks with the E200 MMC styled front end? As Omnicity99 suggested earlier on in the thread that they're likely to have E400MMC style front ends to enable better fleet standardisation. That's assuming the new single decks are ADL of course.

City's and MMC's are built in both factories. Generally small batches of buses for Scotland are built in England and Lagre batches in Scotland. But most of the single deck products appear to be English built. Its six and half a dozen.

The 4 electrics are likely to be Scottish built due to ease of delivery, English built would mean a lowloader, even if they were in Scotland they could be low loadered, but it would be cheaper.

It really is as I say six and half a dozen. But Lothian like to peddle the "made in Scotland" propaganda, as well of course as the "made in England" saying.

As I believe England is more coach orientated. Scotland being Buses only...

 

[CN04NRJ]

City's and MMC's are built in both factories. Generally small batches of buses for Scotland are built in England and Lagre batches in Scotland. But most of the single deck products appear to be English built. Its six and half a dozen.

The 4 electrics are likely to be Scottish built due to ease of delivery, English built would mean a lowloader, even if they were in Scotland they could be low loadered, but it would be cheaper.

It really is as I say six and half a dozen. But Lothian like to peddle the "made in Scotland" propaganda, as well of course as the "made in England" saying.

As I believe England is more coach orientated. Scotland being Buses only...

From experience of driving/travelling 'full size' single deck ADL vehicles tend to be built alot better anyhow regardless of factory. There's a world of difference between 2014 E300 and E200s for example.

Even at their worst ADL and their predecessors have nothing on the stuff out out by Wright post 2016 though!

 

[OmniCity999]

Wright went downhill very quickly unfortunately. I suppose spending all your money on church "donations" really isn't the best idea. A great shame because between 2008-2014 they produced some cracking stuff. Not entirely innovative, but just a braw product.

From experience of driving/travelling 'full size' single deck ADL vehicles tend to be built alot better anyhow regardless of factory. There's a world of difference between 2014 E300 and E200s for example.

Even at their worst ADL and their predecessors have nothing on the stuff out out by Wright post 2016 though!

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Wright went downhill very quickly unfortunately. I suppose spending all your money on church "donations" really isn't the best idea. A great shame because between 2008-2014 they produced some cracking stuff. Not entirely innovative, but just a braw product.

I would say Wright 2017 was their last decent year. 2018 was shocking, and no idea about 2019. They were as you said, in a league of their own between 08 and 14

Now, we know that Lothian are getting 4 electric deckers for the city free route, I wonder if they will also throw in the 6 electric singles they have if they need to. They have not been used in about a year with one of them not since April 2019. Even LVF does not have info on them any more!

 

[overthewater]

Now, we know that Lothian are getting 4 electric deckers for the city free route, I wonder if they will also throw in the 6 electric singles they have if they need to. They have not been used in about a year with one of them not since April 2019. Even LVF does not have info on them any more!

Hold your horses? What City Free route? When is this coming into operation and what is this route? Surly they would be better off using the stock that comes off the No6 and N061?

 

[ScotRail158725]

I wonder if they will also throw in the 6 electric singles they have if they need to. They have not been used in about a year with one of them not since April 2019. Even LVF does not have info on them any more!

use fullhist 28* and it will show the full vehicle history, the “history” command cuts every 6 months so its only showing vehicle usage since the 1st of this year and only 287 has been out this year