First Greater Glasgow

[CM]

Nope those are just Euro 5. The big give away is that the Euro 6 examples have a radiator on both sides of the engine bay, and the exhaust is angular rather than a cylinder.

The Enviro 300s that Stagecoach Western have in use on the X19 in Glasgow are Euro 6, as stated by Jordan above, they can be identified by the extra Grille on the side, along with the larger Grille on the bonnet. It's strange that ADL build Euro 6 Enviro 300s considering the Euro 6 Enviro 200 MMC in it's longest 11.8m length was supposed to replace the E300s. Even more stranger is some London operators have Old style Enviro 200s but with Euro 6 running gear, again, easily spotted by having extra Grilles on the side and rear.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Which Gilmoss' 27905 exactly has...

See Here...

Whoops my mistake, i forgot about that one! However wasn't that a one off test bed for the Euro 6 drive train?

The Enviro 300s that Stagecoach Western have in use on the X19 in Glasgow are Euro 6, as stated by Jordan above, they can be identified by the extra Grille on the side, along with the larger Grille on the bonnet. It's strange that ADL build Euro 6 Enviro 300s considering the Euro 6 Enviro 200 MMC in it's longest 11.8m length was supposed to replace the E300s. Even more stranger is some London operators have Old style Enviro 200s but with Euro 6 running gear, again, easily spotted by having extra Grilles on the side and rear.

ADL initially were still offering the E300 (including the option of new builds to Euro 6 spec), however most operators had moved to the E200MMC by this point.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I don't think McGill's or Stagecoach have got much that come into the City Centre that'll need to be retrofitted. The E300 and E400s that Stagecoach have got the X19, X25/A and X28 are already E6.

The 64, 66, and 67 plate Citaros that McGill's have got are E6 as well. The E200s that they have for the 26, are only E5 even though they have been covered up with LC (Low Carbon) stickers.

It's First that need to start pulling their finger out and get the ball rolling in getting older stock retrofitted.

On the topic of those E300s they're one of a kind! The only Euro 6 Enviro300s built! In all fairness First are by far the biggest operator, so regardless it was always going to be tougher for them to get the fleet compliant.

But of course running Tridents over 15 years old hasnt made anything any better, these should have been replaced sooner and a higher level of investment in general in a nicer, newer fleet for glasgow shouldve been recognised earlier as a result.

If it werent for the LEZ we would not have had millions spent on new vehicles nevermind refurbishements on the existing fleet which are already slowing down, All B9’s couldve been well underway for refurbs with the amount of new vehicles delivered thus far.

Plus the refurbs dont really look all that good.

 

[tbtc]

The 38C is what used to be the extremley watered down version of the old 36.

IIRC at one point the 36 ran Glasgow to/from Cumbernauld every 15 minutes, at the same time you also had the Midland Bluebird 37 and 39 which ran the same route as far as Moodiesburn Crossroads, both on an hourly frequency(this was before the 37 and 39 were re-routed via the M80). What First have done to the Cumbernauld network is nothing short of shambolic.

I agree that there have been huge cuts but (in fairness to First) there are some reasons behind this.

Cumbernauld - Glasgow was obviously Kelvin Scottish territory after deregulation. Strathclyde Buses extended their 11 through to Cumbernauld to compete (as Kelvin were moving into the "cross-city" market).

In those days, all services ran via Stepps (growing up in Fife at the time, the journey down the A80 from Cumbernauld into Glasgow could take longer than from where I lived in Fife - but it sometimes meant a good look at the bus depot at Stepps).

The opening of the M80 (avoiding Stepps) transformed the "express" market from Cumbernauld but also made Fife - Glasgow coaches more competitive.

Stagecoach inherited a roughly hourly service from Dunfermline to Glasgow (mainly the X26,X27) but faster journeys made this more lucrative than running "town services" in Fife - so whilst Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath depots have closed, the service from Dunfermline to Glasgow is now every fifteen minutes.

That gave Stagecoach an incentive, and much better to cherry pick from the Cumbernauld corridor than to keep making their money on shorter distance Fife services. They they introduced dedicated Cumbernauld - Glasgow services (partly because short distance passengers were becoming too many and crowding out the Fife ones).

At the same time, the improved train services from Croy are a chunk of the market from buses.

Eventually, the Stagecoach discounting becomes too much and First close their depot in Cumbernauld.

Given the diversion of most services via the M80, the 36 was all that was left, but obviously quite a limited market (nobody is going to sit on it all the way from Cumbernauld when there's a service down the motorway every few minutes). A bit like the First services out to Drumchapel/ Clydebank/ Mountblow/ Newmains etc, where "express" services via faster roads became more popular than sitting on a bus along Great Western Road etc.

I expected First to abandon Cumbernauld. the X3 is out on a bit of a limb. But they've actually fought back with the X36/X37, twice the frequency from Stirlingshire than there used to be.

It's an evolving market though. People have been traveling into Glasgow from most suburbs for generations, whilst Cumbernauld is an evolving/growing town with a slightly more "transient" population to some parts of the city. If Stagecoach have kicked First out of most of Cumbernauld then it's worth remembering that First have kicked Stagecoach (and McKindless etc) out of various parts of Glasgow over the years. This is the only real territory that they have "lost", as I see it (other than places like Linwood which were never core markets for Strathclyde/ Kelvin/ Central)? You could make an argument that they've pulled out of Lanark (which they go back to every once in a while), but Cumbernauld seems a small price to pay, considering the corridors that First now have a monopoly on.

I've watched services under First Glasgow that have been extremley busy and very frequent being watered down to being not even half as frequent with older vehicles. The 60 is a perfect example, in 2001/2002 it ran (as the 40) roughly every 9-10 minutes, was always busy and had the fairly new 51 plate B10BLEs/B7Ls on it amongst other things. Gradually it has been watered down to what it is today, every 20 minutes with old ex-London cast offs and even now FiG seem to be trying to water it down again by putting singles instead of deckers on it. Ignoring the 60A which used to be the 109/119 and apart from the extension to Easterhouse is probably more or less the same as it was back in 2001/2002 but with deckers instead of B10Ms

In fairness, the M60 provides another six buses an hour at the eastern end of the route (and runs into Drumchapel proper) - the old 40 was always a slow way of getting from Clydebank into the city (compared to the 62/66 in old days, or the current "one" corridor nowadays).

I'm not defending the vehicle choice but I think that the diversion of half the buses on the route to Milngavie seems a reasonable use of resources (when you consider the M60 caters for Drumchapel - Clydebank and the "one" for a much faster service from central Glasgow to Clydebank).

My confusion with the 60/M60 is that there's a twenty minute service running alongside a 8-8-15-8-8-15 minute service, which seems badly co-ordinated!

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I've watched services under First Glasgow that have been extremley busy and very frequent being watered down to being not even half as frequent with older vehicles. The 60 is a perfect example, in 2001/2002 it ran (as the 40) roughly every 9-10 minutes, was always busy and had the fairly new 51 plate B10BLEs/B7Ls on it amongst other things. Gradually it has been watered down to what it is today, every 20 minutes with old ex-London cast offs and even now FiG seem to be trying to water it down again by putting singles instead of deckers on it. Ignoring the 60A which used to be the 109/119 and apart from the extension to Easterhouse is probably more or less the same as it was back in 2001/2002 but with deckers instead of B10Ms.

As I belive Tim O'toole once said, First were on the verge of becoming a company with one route, one bus and a fare of £1million pounds.............and they still are because they quite simply, haven't got a clue.

For a boy thats lived in Glasgow his whole life, as I understand it FiGs buses are always either Cold, Late, unreliable, filthy and of course this company cant keep up with growing expectation(in the past anyways), as I do think that if people are paying for a bus service there expentations are generally high, or at least “were” high, First bus has never really been able to stand on its hind legs and produce something that made people take a second look, of course when FiG stood one of there buses lately inside a box on georges square this was something that ive never seen FiG do before(PR wise) but it is still incredibly overshadowed here from word of mouth for buses being poor, even there latest 400 MMC have started to show the incredible lengths First concede at, namely there buses not being cleaned properly!

As many will understand, if a company makes a good first impression and maintains that inherently it can do a company the world of good, long term, I feel that FiGs low ridership in relation to the population and size of glasgow itself completely shows Firsts inept ability for attention to detail.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

I agree that there have been huge cuts but (in fairness to First) there are some reasons behind this.

Cumbernauld - Glasgow was obviously Kelvin Scottish territory after deregulation. Strathclyde Buses extended their 11 through to Cumbernauld to compete (as Kelvin were moving into the "cross-city" market).

In those days, all services ran via Stepps (growing up in Fife at the time, the journey down the A80 from Cumbernauld into Glasgow could take longer than from where I lived in Fife - but it sometimes meant a good look at the bus depot at Stepps).

The opening of the M80 (avoiding Stepps) transformed the "express" market from Cumbernauld but also made Fife - Glasgow coaches more competitive.

Stagecoach inherited a roughly hourly service from Dunfermline to Glasgow (mainly the X26,X27) but faster journeys made this more lucrative than running "town services" in Fife - so whilst Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath depots have closed, the service from Dunfermline to Glasgow is now every fifteen minutes.

That gave Stagecoach an incentive, and much better to cherry pick from the Cumbernauld corridor than to keep making their money on shorter distance Fife services. They they introduced dedicated Cumbernauld - Glasgow services (partly because short distance passengers were becoming too many and crowding out the Fife ones).

At the same time, the improved train services from Croy are a chunk of the market from buses.

Eventually, the Stagecoach discounting becomes too much and First close their depot in Cumbernauld.

Given the diversion of most services via the M80, the 36 was all that was left, but obviously quite a limited market (nobody is going to sit on it all the way from Cumbernauld when there's a service down the motorway every few minutes). A bit like the First services out to Drumchapel/ Clydebank/ Mountblow/ Newmains etc, where "express" services via faster roads became more popular than sitting on a bus along Great Western Road etc.

I expected First to abandon Cumbernauld. the X3 is out on a bit of a limb. But they've actually fought back with the X36/X37, twice the frequency from Stirlingshire than there used to be.

It's an evolving market though. People have been traveling into Glasgow from most suburbs for generations, whilst Cumbernauld is an evolving/growing town with a slightly more "transient" population to some parts of the city. If Stagecoach have kicked First out of most of Cumbernauld then it's worth remembering that First have kicked Stagecoach (and McKindless etc) out of various parts of Glasgow over the years. This is the only real territory that they have "lost", as I see it (other than places like Linwood which were never core markets for Strathclyde/ Kelvin/ Central)? You could make an argument that they've pulled out of Lanark (which they go back to every once in a while), but Cumbernauld seems a small price to pay, considering the corridors that First now have a monopoly on.



In fairness, the M60 provides another six buses an hour at the eastern end of the route (and runs into Drumchapel proper) - the old 40 was always a slow way of getting from Clydebank into the city (compared to the 62/66 in old days, or the current "one" corridor nowadays).

I'm not defending the vehicle choice but I think that the diversion of half the buses on the route to Milngavie seems a reasonable use of resources (when you consider the M60 caters for Drumchapel - Clydebank and the "one" for a much faster service from central Glasgow to Clydebank).

My confusion with the 60/M60 is that there's a twenty minute service running alongside a 8-8-15-8-8-15 minute service, which seems badly co-ordinated!

For an operator thats ment to be the dominant company this cherry picking is also whats happened in easterhouse with Stageys x19.

FiGs 60, 41 and 38 have definitely taken a hit since the fastlink started, something you would have thought First wouldve forseen given the aforementioned cumbernauld withdrawls.

With cumbernauld I always remember about 10 years ago many used the x25 because they prefered the coaches stagey used as they were cheaper and more comfortable to travel on.
Since the x5, x4 and x80 was withdrawn stagecoach as you most likely know has moved to operate the x25/28 with deckers, the seats are not comfortable at all whilst ive never been able get my head round there companys colours of choice..

When you consider first could likely go in heavily to cumbernauld again with high quality buses at a reduced cost, with upgraded seating for more comfort...they could do more I think to reclaim what they've lost.

Just look at the first operated metrobus in bristol, really cool looking and distinctive..

Having wood flooring also looks nicer..

Assorted images of how the buses could look, notice the dirty grained floor on the 300 interior though.

(Images borrowed from Google)

 

[Jordan Adam]

For an operator thats ment to be the dominant company this cherry picking is also whats happened in easterhouse with Stageys x19.

FiGs 60, 41 and 38 have definitely taken a hit since the fastlink started, something you would have thought First wouldve forseen given the aforementioned cumbernauld withdrawls.

With cumbernauld I always remember about 10 years ago many used the x25 because they prefered the coaches stagey used as they were cheaper and more comfortable to travel on.
Since the the x5, x4 and x80 was withdrawn stageys, as you most likely know has moved to operate the x25/28 with deckers, the seats are not comfortable at all.

When you consider first could likely go in heavy with high quality buses at a reduced cost, with upgraded seating...they could do more I think to reclaim what theyve lost.

Just look at the first operated metrobus in bristol, really cool looking and distinctive..

Having wood flooring also looks nicer..

Assorted images of how the buses could look, notice the dirty grained floor on the 300 interior

The E300s have the faulty floors which first stopped specifying in 2015. No point bring up an issue which has been resolved, obviously anyone with common sense will understand it makes no commercial sense to replace the floors on such young vehicles, especially on such a high number of vehicles. However i suspect quite a number will get new floors put in at some point.

The Metrobus "livery" is rancid.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

The E300s have the faulty floors which first stopped specifying in 2015. No point bring up an issue which has been resolved, obviously anyone with common sense will understand it makes no commercial sense to replace the floors on such young vehicles, especially on such a high number of vehicles. However i suspect quite a number will get new floors put in at some point.

The Metrobus "livery" is rancid.

Perhaps not the way it is arranged, but I do think darker colours.... grey, white, black and coloured accents alongside alcoa wheel does look far superior, contemporary whilst portraying that much more effort and thought has been placed on the way the vehicle looks and feels.

First’s corporate lilac livery is as bland and lifeless as stagecoach’s own is Brash.

beyond a shadow of a doubt I can already nitpick at the flooring thats inside the latest MMCs on the 18 and 75 becoming dirty, although I partly put this down to the general lack of refinement to glasgows cleaning staff.

What I will say is that the shade of wood flooring chose for the refurbed B9s looks like baby khak!

 

[JumpinTrainz]

The 38 receiving new buses would be a great idea. The 38 has quite a high PVR so it would be nice to see some new stock on these routes and it would also allow a lot more B9TLs to be refurbished and cascaded on to other routes which require newer buses. It would also allow for most of the tridents to be withdrawn which have come to dominate this route.

As with the 60, when this was the 40 it always received the newest of buses but in recent years has definately reverted back. It’s mainly operated by single B7RLEs and ALX400s now although I’ve definately noticed a huge increase in single deck stock on this route which was a thing back in the Overground days. I think the 60 could run a mixture of singles but it definately needs deckers on the route too as it can get extremely busy around Parkhead Forge/Shettleston way. The frequency has improved since then too.

I don’t like that First are upgrading single routes as opposed to depots like they used to. The Scanias back in the late 90s and early 00s were shared through all of Parkhead. Same with the B7LAs, B10BLEs, B7Ls and B7RLEs. Now routes are individually receiving new stock. For example the 2 was upgraded while the 61 still had old tridents. Now the 61 is receiving refurbished B9TLs while the 60 is receiving the oldest stock still. I prefer the days where they all used to share new stock.

As for the interiors of some of First buses those images look great and very smart but unfortunately I don’t trust Glaswegian bus users. Buses are wrecked and vandalised on a daily basis with not much being done about it. Yes new buses look great inside but only for so long before they are ruined by completely disrespectful passengers. Feet on seats etc. I’m not aiming at one route in particular but your routes like the 60 are commonly targeted as they are routed around the rougher parts like Maryhill, Parkhead, Shettleston, Barlanark, Easterhouse. So it’s no wonder First aren’t going super fancy. The current interiors aren’t that bad but I do agree I really don’t like the refurbished B9TLs flooring. It’s never consistent with First. They need to go with an interior and stick to it.

 

[smtglasgow]

New buses on the 38 would have a big impact – it would be a very visible sign of things changing. As we’ve discussed before, it would be a good time for First to thing about simplifying the 38, maybe renumbering part of it to avoid all the suffix. It’s still a busy route – Shawlands and Alexandra Parade are both good bus territory. Looking ahead, there’s going to a lot of development around Millerston and out at Gartcosh, so the 38 (or variations of it) look like they’ve got a good future.

I always forget that the X78 from Newton Mearns is still going. I’m surprised they haven’t tried to boost it, maybe try an all-day service again. Went past Patterton station before Christmas and the car park was full – with a decent fare offer they could try and steal some of the business by offering through journeys to Charing X or Glasgow Uni.

 

[overthewater]

Part of the problem stagecoach has with the x25 is wheelchair access, since the coaches needed which would give step free access are pricey. On top of that your still see plenty of parents with prams.

X78 would need to Go into silverburn off peak

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Part of the problem stagecoach has with the x25 is wheelchair access, since the coaches needed which would give step free access are pricey. On top of that your still see plenty of parents with prams.

X78 would need to Go into silverburn off peak

Yet the Pratico seating that's all the rage atm with alot of operators are not the most comfortable, for a route competing with trains you would think extra comfort would be something that Stagecoach would obligate.

The 38 receiving new buses would be a great idea. The 38 has quite a high PVR so it would be nice to see some new stock on these routes and it would also allow a lot more B9TLs to be refurbished and cascaded on to other routes which require newer buses. It would also allow for most of the tridents to be withdrawn which have come to dominate this route.

As with the 60, when this was the 40 it always received the newest of buses but in recent years has definately reverted back. It’s mainly operated by single B7RLEs and ALX400s now although I’ve definately noticed a huge increase in single deck stock on this route which was a thing back in the Overground days. I think the 60 could run a mixture of singles but it definately needs deckers on the route too as it can get extremely busy around Parkhead Forge/Shettleston way. The frequency has improved since then too.

I don’t like that First are upgrading single routes as opposed to depots like they used to. The Scanias back in the late 90s and early 00s were shared through all of Parkhead. Same with the B7LAs, B10BLEs, B7Ls and B7RLEs. Now routes are individually receiving new stock. For example the 2 was upgraded while the 61 still had old tridents. Now the 61 is receiving refurbished B9TLs while the 60 is receiving the oldest stock still. I prefer the days where they all used to share new stock.

As for the interiors of some of First buses those images look great and very smart but unfortunately I don’t trust Glaswegian bus users. Buses are wrecked and vandalised on a daily basis with not much being done about it. Yes new buses look great inside but only for so long before they are ruined by completely disrespectful passengers. Feet on seats etc. I’m not aiming at one route in particular but your routes like the 60 are commonly targeted as they are routed around the rougher parts like Maryhill, Parkhead, Shettleston, Barlanark, Easterhouse. So it’s no wonder First aren’t going super fancy. The current interiors aren’t that bad but I do agree I really don’t like the refurbished B9TLs flooring. It’s never consistent with First. They need to go with an interior and stick to it.

The biggest single problem to do with buses in glasgow is many not coming to expect much from the company, hence alot have came to not respect much in glasgow, years ago edinburgh had many problems with vandalised buses hence why many of there older fleet have magnetic stair gates, it was to prevent youngins causing mayhem up stairs, knowing fair well that drivers could see them down stair far more easily they weren't getting away with it whilst lothian actively seek to prevent this happening FiG have never done this.

Anyways, regarding Firsts current buses on the 38s, a "serious" refurb of the B9TLs could go along way to improving them, without yucky coloured floors. There is a serious impression from the whole fleet that they don't seemingly have a leader to put in place a design then sticking too it.

Transdev's B7TLs used on there Red Express service have had complete facelifts done which helps make them more modern looking, there Wheels have been competely Refurbed as well with embellishers, no corrosion in site what so ever, its the complete package, FiGs efforts look kinda half-a*sed in comparison.

More effort could be put into Glasgow regardless of the young team, buses could actually leave the garage clean.

 

[lastbus]

• PM0000006/431 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  
  Route: Law Village to Wishaw General Hospital via Wishaw
  
  Service number: 210 ()
  
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  
  Effective date: 21 Jan 2019
  

 

[JumpinTrainz]

I think First are making a big mistake by not converting the B7RLEs. I get there are other buses which take priority such as the E300s but surely buses as sturdy as this should be kept. They are still great buses. If these were refurbished they would be as good as new.

 

[Bus Lightyear]

With cumbernauld I always remember about 10 years ago many used the x25 because they prefered the coaches stagey used as they were cheaper and more comfortable to travel on.
Since the x5, x4 and x80 was withdrawn stagecoach as you most likely know has moved to operate the x25/28 with deckers, the seats are not comfortable at all whilst ive never been able get my head round there companys colours of choice..

I used to live in the town. The Plaxton coaches that Stagecoach and Kelvin/First ran in the late 90s were very cramped and the seats were hard. I found the Royales and Geminis to be much better.

First ran a fairly comprehensive service from Cumbernauld to Glasgow but unfortunately it was eaten away by trying to compete with Stagecoach who undercut them. Now that Stagecoach have most of that market to themselves they don't seem to have a clue what they're doing or having difficulties trying to get these services to stack up. They've changed the route of the X28 at least 5 times since First withdrew the X5 about 3 years ago.

 

[goldisgood]

Stagecoach should've probably got a higher spec bus for the X25/X28 rather than standard MMCs - something like the buses on the X2 (Liverpool-Preston) or their Kent routes with the comfier seats would've been ideal instead of the Pratico seats. Personally I don't find them too bad, but they do start to get uncomfortable after about 45 minutes!

 

[Bus Lightyear]

I think First are making a big mistake by not converting the B7RLEs. I get there are other buses which take priority such as the E300s but surely buses as sturdy as this should be kept. They are still great buses. If these were refurbished they would be as good as new.

Why would they spend money converting these buses when they're are 13 years old? Aren't some of Blantyre's 04 and 54 reg?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why would they spend money converting these buses when they're are 13 years old? Aren't some of Blantyre's 04 and 54 reg?

Is the LEZ to be fully effective from 2022? If so, then are the youngest B7RLEs going to be 16 years old then?

That said, a cosmetic refurb (rather than re-engineering) has certainly transformed the ones at First Cymru.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Buying new singles for the busy 1, 2 and 77 could've ment cascading the Enviro 300s on these routes to replace the B7RLE, of course for one I do not understand them buying new buses for the likes of the 241 and 34, when the city centre is still crying out for a whole load more money to be invested in it, I very much wish that they would entertain heavier buses for the 1 and 2s.

The 3, 41 and 10, the 9/9A should certainly be a high priority route for new buses considering there competition for McGills 38.

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Buying new singles for the busy 1, 2 and 77 could've ment cascading the Enviro 300s on these routes to replace the B7RLE, of course for one I do not understand them buying new buses for the likes of the 241 and 34, when the city centre is still crying out for a whole load more money to be invested in it, I very much wish that they would entertain heavier buses for the 1 and 2s.

The 3, 41 and 10, the 9/9A should certainly be a high priority route for new buses considering there competition for McGills 38.

Ideally First should be pumping lots of newer stock into routes that will be affected by LEZ. I do get it’s not until 2022 but it is 2019 which gives them only 3 years to have City Centre routes Euro 6 compliant which is a big task.

New buses in Lanarkshire are good but I must say it’s rather odd how calm and slowly First are taking this.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Ideally First should be pumping lots of newer stock into routes that will be affected by LEZ. I do get it’s not until 2022 but it is 2019 which gives them only 3 years to have City Centre routes Euro 6 compliant which is a big task.

Perhaps they have a plan?

I seem to recall a lot of naysayers about First’s ability to meet PSVAR requirements.

 

[Volvodart]

It is likely some of the early Euro4s will be converted (so long as they have the 5 year life required for the funding) so the age profile of the fleet can be spread out.

 

[christopherrfc]

Service 2 changes

https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-...ates/planned-changes/service-change-service-2

U1/u2 changes

https://www.firstgroup.com/greater-.../planned-changes/service-change-service-u1-u2

 

[tbtc]

For an operator thats ment to be the dominant company this cherry picking is also whats happened in easterhouse with Stageys x19.


FiGs 60, 41 and 38 have definitely taken a hit since the fastlink started, something you would have thought First wouldve forseen given the aforementioned cumbernauld withdrawls.

Interesting - as I'm south of the border I don't pick up on details like this, so it's interesting to see how the balance tips between different operators/ different routes.


In the past ten/fifteen years or so, Stagecoach have come from relatively nowhere to run a big chunk of the profitable corridors in Liverpool and Sheffield but it's been about twenty years since they had a big presence in Glasgow (e.g. MagicBus out to Drumchapel, the X8/X9/X10 via the Motorway to Pollock) - as the X19 is about the only "city" route they now run, I'm interested in how it compares/competes.

When you consider first could likely go in heavily to cumbernauld again with high quality buses at a reduced cost, with upgraded seating for more comfort...they could do more I think to reclaim what they've lost

True, but I don't know how best to - part of the problem with Cumbernauld is that the layout of the roads make it tricky to serve.


For example, I'm from Fife. The "new town" there is Glenrothes - and the long established pattern (from Fife Scottish, now Stagecoach) is to run a "town service" within north/western Glenrothes (Leslie, Newcastle etc) which then serve the south/eastern suburbs (Woodside, Pitteuchar etc) on the way to serve Kirkcaldy.


So routes like the 37/38/39 were an effective Town Service that was also the through bus to Kirkcaldy. One route ticks a number of boxes, serving different markets (the longer distance passengers going through to the bright lights of Kirkcaldy and the shorter distance ones just wanting a simple bus to their local town centre.


There’s a similar effect with Kirkintilloch, where a route has acted as a “town service” and then runs through to Glasgow (whether via Springburn or the Motorway). Same in East Kilbride, where the 6/16/18/20/21 etc (depending on your vintage) have linked the suburbs into central EK and then continued on to Glasgow.


In the case of Cumbernauld, the road layout sees most of the roads big enough for a bus to get down running in a north east – south west diagonal, i.e. parallel to the A80/M80.


That means that you can't run a "town service" from Carbrian/Seafar to central Cumbernauld and then onto Glasgow, so it becomes harder to serve some suburbs. Similarly, the "new" developments (Balloch, out towards Croy) are on the wrong side of the A80, so you're not going to run an Eastfield - Cumbernauld - Glasgow service.


Obviously you can do Abronhill - Cumbernauld town centre - Glasgow, but then that route could run that service via Carbrian/Seafar too – i.e. doing what First did with the X4/X5. But you’re not going to serve more than one intermediate place by doing that (i.e. running an Abronhill – Glasgow service via Seafar comes at the expense of running it through the town centre).


Plus, the density of some areas of Cumbernauld mean that some people live quite close to the centre, so it’d be hard to get them to pay a quid or two for a “town service” journey (compared to the relatively spread out, low density Glenrothes).


The longer distance buses (Fife services, new X36 from Stirling) do a good job of providing a fast service from central Cumbernauld to central Glasgow, so I don’t know what the best market for First to target would be. The fact that some of the “local” daytime services are SPT tenders suggests it’s not *great* bus territory – the housing on the other side of the M80 seems lower density, so potential passengers thinly spread.


None of this is First’s fault, it’s just the way that Cumbernuald was laid out generations ago, too many parallel roads, too many people living within walking distance of the central shopping area, difficult to serve with buses.


There’s also the issue that, if they provoked Stagecoach too much in Cumbernauld, that might leave them open to some competition on historically busy Glasgow corridors (that now have no bus competition).

I don’t like that First are upgrading single routes as opposed to depots like they used to. The Scanias back in the late 90s and early 00s were shared through all of Parkhead. Same with the B7LAs, B10BLEs, B7Ls and B7RLEs. Now routes are individually receiving new stock. For example the 2 was upgraded while the 61 still had old tridents. Now the 61 is receiving refurbished B9TLs while the 60 is receiving the oldest stock still. I prefer the days where they all used to share new stock

I guess someone at First has worked out/decided/ guessed that investment works a lot better with targeted improvements – hence dedicating new buses to routes like the 65, so that it is wholly run by modern vehicles, rather than spreading them all over.


Maybe the “logic” is that passengers want to know the standard of service that they will receive, so if that means guaranteeing wifi and being able to charge your phone on a half hourly service (rather than the equivalent number of buses making up a third of the PVR of a more frequent service)?


I don’t know, I’m just guessing at what they are thinking – whilst that spells bad news to passengers on non-flagship routes (e.g. the 60 at the moment?) – and you can argue the merits of that – I can see why they are doing what they are doing. Whether it works or not, I don’t know – that’s a business decision that they are taking – I suppose that the “wow factor” of seeing the distinctive new buses on the 75 would be watered down if they were sprinkled thinly amongst several routes.

 

[Gingerbus1991]

All of this, particularly in glasgow where competitoon has been fierce at times, is the reason I think regulation is what SPT need to have the power of, uselessly running empty the 9 alongside Mcgills 38, both companys are done out of recourses and profit, the route could be shared under regulation.

There is an overwhelming punishment to all bus operations, THE PRIVATE CAR, particularly in suburban or out of town areas.

With cumbernauld, Stagecoach got in the door after First but proceded to operate at the single most important thing of operating a bus to passengers, Cost, I was one a many who drove the x5 and x80 regularly at cumbernauld about 10 years ago, they were busy during peak and were not back off peak as well, based on this Im surprized stagecoach havent tried a jump in on First x85 service, which is also another external city express route.

For a nation forever saying we are in poverty there is some mighty amount of cars around these days.

 

[lastbus]

• PM0000006/5 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  
  Route: Pather or Overtown or Motherwell to Glasgow Bus Station
  
  Service number: 240 ()
  
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  
  Effective date: 08 Jan 2019
  
  
• PM0000006/181 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  
  Route: Holytown or Maxim Bus Bay to Overtown via Wishaw
  
  Service number: 242 ()
  
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  
  Effective date: 08 Jan 2019
  

 

[overthewater]

Yet no plans for extending 255 to viewpark.

People should also remember scotrail passengers within glasgow has sky rocketed.. Of course it has nothing to do with first...

 

[Gingerbus1991]

Yet no plans for extending 255 to viewpark.

People should also remember scotrail passengers within glasgow has sky rocketed.. Of course it has nothing to do with first...

I think over the last 10 to 15 years First have done very little to appease what passaengers it once had, whether the trains got involved or not.

A few passengers in glasgow have rhode the refurbed B9s when they were first done and initially mistook them as new buses, as if its something almost foreign to them in Glesga, the usual words being “This bus has laminate flooring, is this a new bus, driver?”.
If the perception of a bus service is seen to be low, so will ridership im afraid, the trains or car ownership is not the sole destroyer of patronage, FiG has helped decimate its punters.

When I was employed at Firsts cumbernauld depot the 88 used to have mobbed deckers every monday to friday, they use singles mostly now, yet these operate through a vast area that has always had trains, but the buses used have always been Tridents that were hingin.

 

[Bellshill123]

Not really, It's clear as day Coakley are not running the service and its also been pointed out the buses have ended up in the scrappy's. However if no one tell them how would there know.. Google: Phone: 0131 200 4940

Hi All,

Does anyone on here have any further updates on the fate of the 107/109 Bellshill Circular service? Any new takers for this service yet?

Appreciate any comments.

Regards

 

[SarahDFIG]

• PM0000006/5 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  
  Route: Pather or Overtown or Motherwell to Glasgow Bus Station
  
  Service number: 240 ()
  
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  
  Effective date: 08 Jan 2019
  
  
• PM0000006/181 Registered (Short notice)
  FIRST GLASGOW (NO2) LTD
  
  Route: Holytown or Maxim Bus Bay to Overtown via Wishaw
  
  Service number: 242 ()
  
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  
  Effective date: 08 Jan 2019

Effective from yesterday yet nothing has changed?

242 still running to Pather and 240 unchanged either.