The Worst Thing To Ever Run On The Network

[70014IronDuke]

Don't be silly.

Is the understated response to a numbscull suggestion that brings this group into disrepute.

If we turned this thread on its head, I (and I suspect many others) would argue that the HST was and is the most successful overall traction-train package design ever seen in the UK. (IT's incredibly difficult to compare, of course, I have no idea how well known the Detlics were with the travelling public - but they were were only on the GN. Ditto the Castles in GWR days, which were probably the best steam-era equivalent.)

The brand value alone of the HST must be worth millions. Brand, that is, built of solid and delivered performance, not PR hype.

This thread has attracted some truly absurd responses.

EDIt

Quite. They pretty much reversed British Rail from decades of decline and made rail travel more appealing for the UK. The Westerns and Deltics would have been replaced by 47s and 50s in any case. Standardisation was already in full swing before the HSTs entered service.

Yes. And the Cl 52s were already on their last last legs when the HST entered service - in August 1976 IRCC? How many were left in service by then, 10? 12?

 

[70014IronDuke]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the class 56s that were built in Romania. I can just about remember seeing them at Barrow Hill waiting to receive modifications in the mid 1970s.

Interesting nomination indeed. Did any Romanian-built 56s ever work in revenue earning service as delivered?

EDIT - otherwise 1st phase diesel nominations would have to be the D61xx or D84xx. At least the Metro-Vicks did some work before they caught fire.

 

[AndrewE]

I would have suggested the SR Bulleid "Leader." Maybe a good idea in principle but apparently a disaster, especially for the fireman trapped inside tending the furnace!

 

[broadgage]

Pacers, voyagers, GWR IETs.

Pacers= generally nasty.

Voyagers and IETs, acceptable for secondary or lightly used regional services, but totally unsuitable for the busy and long distance services on which they are used.

Class 57 locos, unreliable.

 

[DarloRich]

Is the understated response to a numbscull suggestion that brings this group into disrepute.

eh? what on earth are you taking about

 

[Esker-pades]

I would humbly like to nominate any/all hand dryers. I've yet to find one on a train that works.

By "work" do you mean the ability to actually dry one's hands or just to blow vaguely warm air downwards?

 

[yorksrob]

By "work" do you mean the ability to actually dry one's hands or just to blow vaguely warm air downwards?

I was thinking more of drying one's hands.

 

[FGW_DID]

Pacers, voyagers, GWR IETs.

Pacers= generally nasty.

Voyagers and IETs, acceptable for secondary or lightly used regional services, but totally unsuitable for the busy and long distance services on which they are used.

Class 57 locos, unreliable.

Bells ring, klaxons sound, lights flash!

It’s taken 124 posts and 5 pages for someone to nominate the IET. I must admit I thought someone had locked all you IET haters in an internet proof room. As soon as I saw the thread title, I was expecting to see a number of posters within at least the first 4-5 posts! Poor show chaps

 

[martin2345uk]

eh? what on earth are you taking about

He said your comment was an understated response to a ridiculous one (that HSTs are the worst things to run on the network).

 

[liam456]

Bells ring, klaxons sound, lights flash!

It’s taken 124 posts and 5 pages for someone to nominate the IET. I must admit I thought someone had locked all you IET haters in an internet proof room. As soon as I saw the thread title, I was expecting to see a number of posters within at least the first 4-5 posts! Poor show chaps

Once again, where is the like button?

 

[xotGD]

Is the understated response to a numbscull suggestion that brings this group into disrepute.

If we turned this thread on its head, I (and I suspect many others) would argue that the HST was and is the most successful overall traction-train package design ever seen in the UK. (IT's incredibly difficult to compare, of course, I have no idea how well known the Detlics were with the travelling public - but they were were only on the GN. Ditto the Castles in GWR days, which were probably the best steam-era equivalent.)

The brand value alone of the HST must be worth millions. Brand, that is, built of solid and delivered performance, not PR hype.

This thread has attracted some truly absurd responses.

EDIt


Yes. And the Cl 52s were already on their last last legs when the HST entered service - in August 1976 IRCC? How many were left in service by then, 10? 12?

From an enthusiast's perspective, the HST had the biggest negative impact on loco-hauled passenger services of anything introduced on the network.

That is why I consider it to be the worst thing ever to run. Nothing to do with reliability, the comfort of the seats or the colour scheme.

If you consider that to be numbskullery, so be it.

 

[reddragon]

Bells ring, klaxons sound, lights flash!

It’s taken 124 posts and 5 pages for someone to nominate the IET. I must admit I thought someone had locked all you IET haters in an internet proof room. As soon as I saw the thread title, I was expecting to see a number of posters within at least the first 4-5 posts! Poor show chaps

/
I actually quite like the 800s, especially after trying an 800/3. The Voyagers aren't that bad either. Obviously the haters either have rose tinted glasses of just how rubbish trains were in the 1970's or are too young to have suffered the run down, empty, unreliable trains of that period

 

[Dai Corner]

From an enthusiast's perspective, the HST had the biggest negative impact on loco-hauled passenger services of anything introduced on the network.

That is why I consider it to be the worst thing ever to run. Nothing to do with reliability, the comfort of the seats or the colour scheme.

If you consider that to be numbskullery, so be it.

In my book, replacing something you were fond of doesn't make a train the 'worst thing to ever run on the network'.

 

[47271]

The Leyland Coach also might take some beating. http://www.traintesting.com/leyland-coach.htm

Oh hell, I'd never heard of this abomination before. For those of us who complain of inadequate stock on long distance services nowadays, be glad it isn't 1983 any more...

 

[big all]

Oh hell, I'd never heard of this abomination before. For those of us who complain of inadequate stock on long distance services nowadays, be glad it isn't 1983 any more...

it was trying to give a cheap way off upgrading standards and quality using donner mk1 underframes
it was frequently used on the day brighton to manchester and the night return

 

[Ash Bridge]

I recall seeing it on occasion passing through Stockport, it looked really small and out of place with a low roof profile compared to the rest of the standard mk1 coaches in the train, especially when viewed crossing the viaduct from below.

 

[E100]

That’s just a flesh wound...

Haha. After traveling on pacers frequently this year I've actually come to appreciate the more open layout giving a nice view of the Tyne valley line for all of their flaws.

 

[matacaster]

The 308's by the time they arrived in Aire valley were pants.

 

[JohnMcL7]

No-one's suggested Class 139 yet.

It's a bus on steel wheels with all the good looks of a Fiat Multipla.

Judging from videos I've seen they have the ride quality of a go-kart.

Sorry to Parry People Movers, nice folks I'm sure, but I mean, what is even the point of these, why not just run an actual bus?

Already mentioned on page two of this thread, they were my first thought when reading the thread title so I was wondering how long it would take before someone went with that choice.

 

[Mikey C]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say the Class 312 EMUs - introduced in 1975 with slam doors still, which curtailed their useful life.

The 1980 built class 317s are still in use by comparison (and were nicer units to ride on as well).

The 312s were certainly a rather "end of era" purchase, though their 28 year life doesn't seem so bad when you see the amount of modern stock now being withdrawn well before its actual life expiry!

On a similar concept, the 1983 Tube Stock was also a very flawed purchase, and due to its unreliability and single doored design ended up with a pitifully short life span, with some of the phase 2 trains only lasting for 10 years before withdrawal.

 

[156443]

Voyagers, I try avoiding travelling on them unless absolutely necessary.

185’s only because they are unsuitable for the long distance routes from Newcastle to Manchester as they get packed at busy times.

 

[mde]

Class 180 surely - one of the worst products in the 'modern' era to pass out of Washwood Heath. They work okay most of the time, sure, but, when they fail…

 

[yorksrob]

The 308's by the time they arrived in Aire valley were pants.

I disagree. They were perfectly decent for the role.

 

[jopsuk]

180s are a good shout- deeply disliked initially by fGW, due to awful reliability. Some taken on by the East Coast Open Access operators, but not without problems. A few taken back on by fGW, but only in extremis and ditched ASAP by GWR. Currently deeply troublesome at Hull Trains; Grand Central seem to be making them work OK? They seem to be planning on taking on the HT fleet?
Definitely a major contributor to Alstom exiting the UK rolling stock market in the way they did- along with the early issues with the Class 458.

 

[XC victim]

I am going to come to the defence of the voyagers. I think they are actually a good train, I have heard a lot of criticism of the voyagers, mainly from me but some of the criticism is unjustified. There is no way a 4 coach unit should ever be running any intercity service but the voyagers are reliable and their performance is impressive (especially when compared with an IEP unit). The seat are comfortable even if they don’t line up with the windows (the worst possible crime in my book). And generally a 5 coach voyager has enough capacity for most services.

And while we are at it I quite like the class 144 pacers, especially with the bus seats being replaced. The 142’s are still terrible.

My nomination for worst thing ever on out network would be the class 150

 

[Journeyman]

What about North British class 21 and 29 as well as the BR class 22`s. Ugly and unpopular. One wonders why Hornby kept reproducing them for so long. I suppose they had their fans.

It did seem like an odd choice of model - when it first appeared, Hornby manufactured very few diesel models, and it seemed bizarre to choose a prototype very short-lived, operating in a small area, over a much more common and widespread one.

 

[Journeyman]

I am going to come to the defence of the voyagers. I think they are actually a good train, I have heard a lot of criticism of the voyagers, mainly from me but some of the criticism is unjustified. There is no way a 4 coach unit should ever be running any intercity service but the voyagers are reliable and their performance is impressive (especially when compared with an IEP unit). The seat are comfortable even if they don’t line up with the windows (the worst possible crime in my book). And generally a 5 coach voyager has enough capacity for most services.

Quite agree - the only thing that's fundamentally wrong with Voyagers is that they're usually chronically overcrowded, but that's not the fault of the train, it's caused by there not being enough of them, and the formations being too short.

I think XC have made theirs worse by taking the shops out, but the Virgin ones are still pretty decent.

 

[Journeyman]

Class 141 has to be a contender for the worst dmu

Agreed there - I only travelled on them once or twice, but they were FAR worse than the later Pacers.

 

[XC victim]

Quite agree - the only thing that's fundamentally wrong with Voyagers is that they're usually chronically overcrowded, but that's not the fault of the train, it's caused by there not being enough of them, and the formations being too short.

I think XC have made theirs worse by taking the shops out, but the Virgin ones are still pretty decent.

I have noticed that the criticism of the voyagers invariably comes from crosscountry passengers, not virgin passengers. And the Meridians don’t attract much complaint either.

I am a big fan of the buffet service rather than the trolley, especially on crosscountry services where the trolley can’t actually get through the train due to overcrowding. When it does pass through the train it is usually not when you require refreshments and the range on the trolley is so meagre

 

[Journeyman]

I'll nominate the Southern's SUB and EPB stock in its later years. I used to travel a lot on these when I was a kid, and by the early 80s they'd been allowed to deteriorate into absolutely terrible condition. I remember them dirty, often vandalised, and knee-deep in fag ends and litter. It was insane that the Southern was constructing such ancient stock using recycled components right into the sixties. It may have shifted people quickly, but the trains were gloomy, uncomfortable, cold and unwelcoming, and the continued use of non-gangwayed and compartment stock made them a safety hazard. They would also disintegrate into matchsticks in even very minor collisions.

I know the PEP, Mark 3-based and Networker EMUs that followed were hardly popular and had problems of their own, but they're generally kept in much better condition and are much better suited to the job. The SWT refurb of the 455 has to be one of the best suburban/metro trains in the country.