Could the railway cease accepting cash?

[Dave1987]

You'll have a few years to adapt.

Even the party of Government has breached the new data protection regulations. Telling people to "adapt" when the technology os continually being rushed out before it is fully mature is just ridiculous.

 

[6Gman]

Several times a year I do street/supermarket charity collections. There are usually a few "sorry, but I've got no change - only a card" remarks but even if we could tool up with card readers I suspect we would find takings way down.

 

[Starmill]

There are a lot of places where I have recently paid cash because I had no choice:

- An independent bar
- An Indian restraunt
- A market stall in Manchester
- Onboard a bus in Devon
- To pay my fare on West Coast Railways
- In a taxi in Rugby
- A local pizza takeaway
- Quite the number of chip shops all over the country
- Poundbakery in Wigan
- Retro Railtours onboard buffet
- A small station cafe

And that is within the space of the past couple of months. There is, regardless of what anyone thinks, still a need to carry cash.

In addition, my local shop still tries to charge a fee for using a card, regardless of the fact that this is apparently not allowed, so I always pay in cash if I must go there. I was in a charity shop that only accepted cash, and I was on Supertram where you can only pay in cash. I have seen some shops where a minimum transaction still applies for card use too, which in one case was £10, but generally is £5. In one case I bought something and of course, paid cash.

I buy nearly all train tickets online though!

 

[Dave1987]

There are a lot of places where I have recently paid cash because I had no choice:

- An independent bar
- An Indian restraunt
- A market stall in Manchester
- Onboard a bus in Devon
- To pay my fare on West Coast Railways
- In a taxi in Rugby
- A local pizza takeaway
- Quite the number of chip shops all over the country
- Poundbakery in Wigan
- Retro Railtours onboard buffet
- A small station cafe

And that is within the space of the past couple of months. There is, regardless of what anyone thinks, still a need to carry cash.

I buy nearly all train tickets online though!

My local pub only accepts cash. Landlord says that bank charges are just too high for him to entertain getting a card machine. He does have the luxury of a free to use cash machine being two buildings down. Cash is far from dead.

 

[johntea]

There are very few excuses for not accepting card payments these days, when even I could go and buy a reader for £20 - £50! Granted there is a transaction fee for such devices but the amount of extra sales from accepting card payments would offset that anyway in a lot of cases

 

[Dave1987]

There are very few excuses for not accepting card payments these days, when even I could go and buy a reader for £20 - £50! Granted there is a transaction fee for such devices but the amount of extra sales from accepting card payments would offset that anyway in a lot of cases

Not for small transactions it doesn't. I know many people who go for days out or evenings out with just cash so they can budget more easily. Very easy to spend lots on a card without realising it.

 

[Class 170101]

There are parts of the network that will only accept cards because the risks assocaited with cash - including break in are too high in some locations.

However how does the railway accommodate those that aren't allowed bank accounts (some people still aren't allowed) and yet still pay their fare?

 

[Spartacus]

Not for small transactions it doesn't. I know many people who go for days out or evenings out with just cash so they can budget more easily. Very easy to spend lots on a card without realising it.

Not just that, but security, if you go out with say £50, that all you can lose, go out with cards and phone..... I don't like the idea of carrying the ticket on my phone, aside freom losing it, what if the battery runs out or it malfunctions? Too many eggs in one basket for me.

As you say, if the only transactions you're doing are small ones it really makes little sense to have a card reader, especially when cash machines aren't exactly rare.

Going back to the original point, surely if the issue is with people breaking into TVMs for the cash in them surely the answer isn't doing away with cash but with emptying them more often. Ironically, the more risky locations, unstaffed stations, are going to me more difficult to go truly cashless as there won't be someone to stop a person getting on with no ticket.

Aside from the obvious point about people not carrying payment other than cash, it would also be a problem for visitors as there's machines that don't accept cards from abroad.

Anyway, all came home a few years back at York, had just finished my last shift but there was a power cut at the station, no difficulty getting a pint of ale with cash!

 

[Robertj21a]

Even the party of Government has breached the new data protection regulations. Telling people to "adapt" when the technology os continually being rushed out before it is fully mature is just ridiculous.

For goodness sake read what is written. I didn't tell people to adapt. I said they'd have a few years to adapt.

 

[Robertj21a]

There are a lot of places where I have recently paid cash because I had no choice:

- An independent bar
- An Indian restraunt
- A market stall in Manchester
- Onboard a bus in Devon
- To pay my fare on West Coast Railways
- In a taxi in Rugby
- A local pizza takeaway
- Quite the number of chip shops all over the country
- Poundbakery in Wigan
- Retro Railtours onboard buffet
- A small station cafe

And that is within the space of the past couple of months. There is, regardless of what anyone thinks, still a need to carry cash.

In addition, my local shop still tries to charge a fee for using a card, regardless of the fact that this is apparently not allowed, so I always pay in cash if I must go there. I was in a charity shop that only accepted cash, and I was on Supertram where you can only pay in cash. I have seen some shops where a minimum transaction still applies for card use too, which in one case was £10, but generally is £5. In one case I bought something and of course, paid cash.

I buy nearly all train tickets online though!

That's probably interesting on a different thread but this one actually asked .......Could the RAILWAY cease accepting cash?'

 

[Bromley boy]

That's probably interesting on a different thread but this one actually asked .......Could the RAILWAY cease accepting cash?'

To which the answer is surely yes, eventually.

In the London area what with Oyster cards, contactless etc. I’d imagine a vanishingly small % of fares are paid using cash (can anyone confirm what the % is).

I rarely use cash these days for any purchases, contactless has accelerated this. Why would anyone want to fumble around with coins and notes when you can simply swipe your card over the reader?!

 

[higthomas]

I'm definitely of the if I can use card I always will brigade. Just so much easier. Coins just weigh me down and sit in my wallet for a month. But I definitely think there's still a very important place for cash in society, especially those who are too young, or don't have an address or whatever who can't use cards. I feel the only way to eliminate it in any specific location, e.g. transport, is to have something like an Oyster, which anyone can get and put small amounts on and use like a card. It'd be good if Oysters (or a national version thereof) did work like that. I think the Octopus card in Hong Kong can be used in newsagents etc.

 

[matacaster]

Whilst I appreciate that some older people and those who don't like or cannot have a debit card might need special measures, contactless debit cards on the tube are to die for! No more messing around with cash or signing up to Oyster. Bring the cashless rail society on!!!

 

[Randomer]

Cash generally is being used less and less, under 50% of transactions by volume, less than that by amount. We are nowhere near somewhere like Sweden though and apps aren't being really pushed here like Swish is over there (a pain because it needs a Swedish bank account.)

Personally I would have no problem with the railway (or public transport in general) not taking cash if there was a single unified card which could be loaded with cash or tickets. Wouldn't have to come with a reform of ticketing or inter-modal availability etc just the ability to load tickets and be read by a common reader. Preferably with the ability to have a cash balance loaded onto it or auto top up from a bank account to a user defined limit without the need for a credit or debit card.

Likewise as mentioned in other smart card related threads the NRCOT and bylaws would need updating to presume the ticket is valid if it could not be read by the equipment to hand. Or a method of making payment in cash at some point before action would be taken.

The problem with regional cards is that if you travel often you end up with multiple ones often sitting with a small balance (or even just the deposit price of the card.) I've got 4 different UK ones, 3 Swedish and 2 Norwegian all of which I have to think about taking the right one for a trip away.

Yes I'm thinking OV Chipkaart.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you stop accepting cash at ticket machines then you simply cannot have a 'buy before you board' system in place. There are some people whom cannot get access to credit cards or debit cards.

There is basically nobody old enough to be out on their own who cannot obtain a pre-paid card.

Lots of cards for younger people are 'cash cards' which cannot be used unless the vendor has a direct link to perform a 'live' transaction as they do not have access to overdraft facilities so the card provider has to check the account balance before allowing the transaction to complete.

All TVMs process transactions in this manner, so this isn't an issue in 2018 either. I know they do because I use Monzo so I get a notification on my phone immediately any authorisation is carried out (a brilliant anti-fraud measure if nothing else). The way such accounts work is to consider an authorisation as a debit, thus avoiding the possibility of overdrawing.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes I'm thinking OV Chipkaart.

Do we even need that, though? A nationally available pre-paid debit card used at a TVM would do the job. The railway on a national basis could perhaps offer one with zero fees if it was restricted to use in paying train fares.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even the party of Government has breached the new data protection regulations. Telling people to "adapt" when the technology os continually being rushed out before it is fully mature is just ridiculous.

Credit and debit card payment technology is very mature, it has been around for absolutely years and is highly reliable.

 

[Roger100]

Oyster and contactless are particularly good on buses. The £1.50 taken from the card on your first journey is valid for all bus journeys in the following hour. It would be rather difficult to do this with cash!

On the tube and TfL trains you can register your railcard with your Oyster, and thus get the discount where it applies. This doesn't work with contactless.

Fare capping also applies across all transport modes. For example a zone 1 - 3 daily cap is £8, so you can't pay more than £8.00 in what TfL class as a 'day'. Once again, difficult to do this with cash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not just that, but security, if you go out with say £50, that all you can lose, go out with cards and phone.....

And all you can lose is £0 (plus your phone, but you'll have that anyway). You might get someone running around carrying out contactless transactions (max £30) for a bit until the card blocks, but those will be refunded (retailer chargeback) provided you report the issue to your bank promptly.

I don't like the idea of carrying the ticket on my phone, aside freom losing it, what if the battery runs out or it malfunctions? Too many eggs in one basket for me.

I don't like M-tickets because the technology is not mature enough and the TOCs like to screw passengers over by offering poor T&Cs instead of properly fixing it. I would be happy to use true e-ticketing where the ticket is in a database and I can use multiple references to it, be that a phone, a printout, a note of the PNR in biro or a piece of ID. But credit/debit card payment is different, it has existed for well over 40 years, Chip and PIN for over 15 years, and you can always fall back to the previous technology (contactless -> C&P, C&P -> stripe and signature, stripe and signature -> manual machine and signature) if necessary.

Anyway, all came home a few years back at York, had just finished my last shift but there was a power cut at the station, no difficulty getting a pint of ale with cash!

If they had a modern rechargeable EPOS machine with a SIM card in it you could have paid by card too. Businesses don't bother with backups because they can fall back on cash - but if that lost them all their sales, they certainly would bother.

 

[girothedog]

Whilst I appreciate that some older people and those who don't like or cannot have a debit card might need special measures, contactless debit cards on the tube are to die for! No more messing around with cash or signing up to Oyster. Bring the cashless rail society on!!!

Erm, but no one ever needed to sign up to Oyster. One could just pick up a card in a newsagents and load it with funds. I'm so with Dave1987 here, whilst I don't mind TfL knowing my spending habits (I have a registered auto top up Oyster card and occasionally use contactless) I'm less keen on all my spending habits being on record.

 

[island]

Oyster and contactless are particularly good on buses. The £1.50 taken from the card on your first journey is valid for all bus journeys in the following hour. It would be rather difficult to do this with cash!

Quite the contrary. In a number of US cities where I have visited, the bus drivers issue paper transfer tickets on request which have the date and time of issue marked on them somehow (such as by a hole punch or being torn in a specific way).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite the contrary. In a number of US cities where I have visited, the bus drivers issue paper transfer tickets on request which have the date and time of issue marked on them somehow (such as by a hole punch or being torn in a specific way).

In many German cities you simply buy a single ticket from the driver which is valid, in your chosen zones, for any single journey you wish by any combination of connections and modes. In some cities it has a time limit, in others (Hamburg certainly) it's valid for as long as that journey takes.

 

[Silver Cobra]

One type of business that is often overlooked when talk about cash becoming obselete takes place is seaside amusement arcades. Fruit machines, video game cabinets and 2p sliders all require cash to be used. Though, it could be argued that these can converted to use tokens in place of coins to operate, and you could purchase or cash out the tokens using your bank card at the change kiosks.

Back on topic, with regards to the railway, I haven't paid for a train ticket with cash for quite a long time now. I buy most of my tickets either through websites like GWR's or using contactless on the TVMs at Arlesey and Stevenage. I rarely carry cash on me these days, only needing it to top up my swipe card for the vending machines in my workplace's cafeteria.

 

[whhistle]

I wish TVMs near me would accept Apple Pay over £20 or whatever the limit is.

Should query the operator.
The ones near me are fine for larger amounts.

I hope you're wrong on that. Tracking children like that is really not healthy.

Are you a parent?

I'd want that level of control over my children. Why? Because they are still my responsibility

I would have some strong words to say if they were buying pornography online (it's easily done), or wasting my money on mobile gaming.

The lack of parental control is why many kids are out of control these days.
It's not about wrapping them in cotton wool, it's about teaching them responsibility.

I live in a rented house and I still pay the rent in cash, pay the council tax in cash, buy my train tickets in cash and even do my shopping in cash. It means as well that I'm keeping someone in employment rather than letting a machine swap some numbers over.

You're actually probably causing that same person hassle as you're in a dying breed of person who still uses cash to pay for things like council tax.
The landlord may well not declare your rent, in which you're helping him commit fraud.

 

[whhistle]

I know they do because I use Monzo so I get a notification on my phone immediately any authorisation is carried out (a brilliant anti-fraud measure if nothing else).

The only thing that puts me off about Monzo is their stupidly bright cards.
I like Barclays idea of designing your own card but don't want it shiny!

 

[Bletchleyite]

One type of business that is often overlooked when talk about cash becoming obselete takes place is seaside amusement arcades. Fruit machines, video game cabinets and 2p sliders all require cash to be used. Though, it could be argued that these can converted to use tokens in place of coins to operate, and you could purchase or cash out the tokens using your bank card at the change kiosks.

Most people convert larger coinage in that manner at these anyway. It wouldn't be a jump to convert to tokens of the same size as a 2p piece to avoid a need to modify the machines. This would also be needed were the 1p and 2p pieces abolished, something which many countries have already done with the 1 and 2 Euro Cent pieces which are of similar value, and is not an unlikely thing to happen over the next few years in my view.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only thing that puts me off about Monzo is their stupidly bright cards.
I like Barclays idea of designing your own card but don't want it shiny!

It's an advertising thing - the cards are very visible, and as Monzo are only really making money (well, they're not profitable yet...) by way of overdrafts they need all the promotion they can get.

But I don't see why I'd give a monkey's what colour my card is, it's a functional item, not a fashion item.

The software is very, very good, you should give it a go (and the level of customer service is unrivalled compared with any other bank I've dealt with). It doesn't have to be your main account (though I've just switched to it as such), it can be a second account so you can just dump 100 quid into it and have a play, that's how I started with it quite some time ago.

 

[Clip]

So monzo then - are other banks available as this one seems to be repeatedly mentioned not only in this thread but in others over and over again

 

[bussnapperwm]

You're actually probably causing that same person hassle as you're in a dying breed of person who still uses cash to pay for things like council tax.

The landlord may well not declare your rent, in which you're helping him commit fraud.

One thing I noticed was if I paid cash, it showed up on my council tax record straight away if I went to the council offices, yet it took a few days to show up if I was using the online systems or paying at my local asda.

Plus there is the fact I work for the same authority I pay council tax to, and from the complaints I get from my customers about the online/telephone payment systems, I wouldn't trust them with a barge pole. Much easier just to do it in my lunch break of a pay day.

As an aside, paying cash to my landlord means it shows up on the rent account as soon as I've handed the last note/coin over as, living with my parents, my employer is my landlord, so I know for a fact they wouldn't be cooking the books.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One thing I noticed was if I paid cash, it showed up on my council tax record straight away if I went to the council offices, yet it took a few days to show up if I was using the online systems or paying at my local asda.

Plus there is the fact I work for the same authority I pay council tax to, and from the complaints I get from my customers about the online/telephone payment systems, I wouldn't trust them with a barge pole. Much easier just to do it in my lunch break of a pay day.

Even easier to do it via direct debit then you don't have to do anything. I have never, ever had a direct debit go wrong, but if it does the Direct Debit Guarantee requires the bank to repay it straight away and without question.

As an aside, paying cash to my landlord means it shows up on the rent account as soon as I've handed the last note/coin over as, living with my parents, my employer is my landlord, so I know for a fact they wouldn't be cooking the books.

You could always pay them by BACS.