Could the railway cease accepting cash?

[Bletchleyite]

Yet we're ahead of many others: The USA is still in the process of moving (tortuously) from magnetic strip to ICC (chip) cards: they still have regular news articles on card skimmers used at retailer X leading to card cloning and identity theft etc on a regular basis. At least the low-hanging fruit over there makes us a less appealing target.

And some of the new generation banks like Monzo allow you to disable magstripe transactions to avoid a clone being viable.

 

[mmh]

For a young child? Not really. Most parents would apply that level of control with cash too.

I hope you're wrong on that. Tracking children like that is really not healthy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope you're wrong on that. Tracking children like that is really not healthy.

Up to the age of 11 (which is the main market for these cards, as as I said they can have a "proper" online only debit card from that age and may as well as such a card is free and not £3 a month) I only got a very small amount of pocket money and my parents would take me to buy any other needs. I'd assume that's the norm; allowances and similar only tend to be used for older children - teenagers onwards.

I'm 39 - this is not a modern-day nanny-ism. This is how I grew up in the 1980s and 90s.

That is no different at all to providing a card where they can do it themselves - indeed it gives more independence than they would likely get with cash, because nobody wants a 10 year old wandering around with 50 quid in their pocket.

 

[Pigeon]

If this ever happens I will no longer be able to use trains, and I will be indescribably furious.

 

[Dren Ahmeti]

I wish TVMs near me would accept Apple Pay over £20 or whatever the limit is.

Some retailers are limitless, I believe John Lewis accepts up to £1000 on it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If this ever happens I will no longer be able to use trains, and I will be indescribably furious.

Why? Are you unable to obtain even a pre-paid card? Why is that? They are not barred to e.g. undischarged bankrupts as regular debit cards are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Some retailers are limitless, I believe John Lewis accepts up to £1000 on it.

Logically the limit should be the same as the card with PIN, as verified using a fingerprint they are more, not less, secure, and verified using a PIN the level of security is about the same. They are also not in any way vulnerable to cloning unlike a card.

 

[Typhoon]

That's a rather interesting response given that it would be against the terms and conditions of the account

In my reply, I questioned whether the parent of a teenager would take the risk of such a loan (irrespective of Ts & Cs). I did not get a response. To be honest I think their initial response was code for 'you've had an answer now go away'.

There is however this kind of thing:
https://www.gohenry.co.uk

I'm not certain how widely they are used, though - I think some schools use them for school meals/ other in-school payments. This is why I think it will take a little time - either for them to get widely used or for an alternative that has national support established. I'm surprised banks haven't taken this up.​

 

[jimm]

I would hope it's going to be a lot quicker than 10-15 years !. We're already way behind many other countries and the fast take-up of contactless shows there's a demand for more card use. Like others, I'm already finding that cash is rarely needed.

The UK is probably somewhere in the middle on transitioning.

The US has already been mentioned - don't get the staff at my local station started on American tourists and their bank cards and worn-out magnetic strips...

But Europe's largest economy is not exactly a standard-bearer for change either, nor is Japan.

In a world that for most of us is moving inexorably toward electronic payments for almost everything, Europe’s largest economy remains a remarkable holdout, still dominated by a form of commerce that’s existed for millennia. It’s an odd distinction for a country that’s in most respects on the economic vanguard and a rebuttal to any assumption that, all other things being equal, the most advanced economies are generally less cash-dependent.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-02-06/germany-is-still-obsessed-with-cash

 

[gordonthemoron]

Yes, that £100 limit is for goods. Section 75 protection.

Fraud is a different matter and doesn't fall under Section 75. If any credit card been skimmed and used elsewhere, the money gets refunded whether it is under or over £100.

Thankfully, credit card issuers are unbelievably quick to notice irregularities and generally will repay any unauthorised transactions. I know from experience unfortunately.

That's because of my company's software

 

[Clip]

I was up visiting a business last week and there were totally cashless - you could only load up your card to buy things by using a debit or credit card - reduces the possibility of people stealing i guess

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Well last week at Feltham station they could not accept cards at the ticket office or at any of the machines so it was cash only !

 

[35B]

Up to the age of 11 (which is the main market for these cards, as as I said they can have a "proper" online only debit card from that age and may as well as such a card is free and not £3 a month) I only got a very small amount of pocket money and my parents would take me to buy any other needs. I'd assume that's the norm; allowances and similar only tend to be used for older children - teenagers onwards.

I'm 39 - this is not a modern-day nanny-ism. This is how I grew up in the 1980s and 90s.

That is no different at all to providing a card where they can do it themselves - indeed it gives more independence than they would likely get with cash, because nobody wants a 10 year old wandering around with 50 quid in their pocket.

This techno-determinism misses the point entirely. My 13 year old son has a debit card, my 10 year old daughter cannot. Both needed, from an early age, to learn how to use money, and develop a sense of value. That works with coins in a way that it doesn’t with cards.

As someone involved with a church, I am also very conscious of the cost of moving away from cash. Putting transactions (sales or donations) through card machines introduces a new cost to our transactions, over and above what we pay for running a bank account. That is pure cost to us, irrecoverable otherwise; a transfer of wealth from end users and into the banking industry.

There are definite gains to this, but also material costs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This techno-determinism misses the point entirely. My 13 year old son has a debit card, my 10 year old daughter cannot. Both needed, from an early age, to learn how to use money, and develop a sense of value. That works with coins in a way that it doesn’t with cards.

I see your latter point, but your 10 year old daughter could have a GoHenry card or similar; they are available from age 6 and above.

As someone involved with a church, I am also very conscious of the cost of moving away from cash. Putting transactions (sales or donations) through card machines introduces a new cost to our transactions, over and above what we pay for running a bank account. That is pure cost to us, irrecoverable otherwise; a transfer of wealth from end users and into the banking industry.

There are definite gains to this, but also material costs.

It's cost but offset by (volunteer) time. As a Scout Group we have moved to Online Scout Manager for most of our transactions. It costs us 2.95% per transaction, but the time and frustration saved to allow volunteers to do something more useful than faffing around with cash and cheques is immeasurable. Surely a church would be very similar. OK, the traditional collection wouldn't work so well, but I'm sure alternative methods could work.

 

[Robertj21a]

This techno-determinism misses the point entirely. My 13 year old son has a debit card, my 10 year old daughter cannot. Both needed, from an early age, to learn how to use money, and develop a sense of value. That works with coins in a way that it doesn’t with cards.

As someone involved with a church, I am also very conscious of the cost of moving away from cash. Putting transactions (sales or donations) through card machines introduces a new cost to our transactions, over and above what we pay for running a bank account. That is pure cost to us, irrecoverable otherwise; a transfer of wealth from end users and into the banking industry.

There are definite gains to this, but also material costs.

Times change. Handling cash is an expensive business and, nowadays, far less necessary than before. Debit card processing is not a significant expense and, for the few who don't wish to follow that route, there is still the Post Office.

 

[bussnapperwm]

I find cash is easier to use as I can physically feel spending it, meaning I can budget easier.

I live in a rented house and I still pay the rent in cash, pay the council tax in cash, buy my train tickets in cash and even do my shopping in cash. It means as well that I'm keeping someone in employment rather than letting a machine swap some numbers over.

Doing it on my card, I risk going into an unauthorised over draft as I have a habit of buying some things I don't actually need (such as the latest wrestling top!)

The day the railways ban cash, I will not use them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You might want to consider one of the challenger banks like Monzo which will show you your balance in real time on your phone (they consider the authorisation to be the transaction, so you can't get lost that way).

 

[island]

As someone involved with a church, I am also very conscious of the cost of moving away from cash. Putting transactions (sales or donations) through card machines introduces a new cost to our transactions, over and above what we pay for running a bank account. That is pure cost to us, irrecoverable otherwise; a transfer of wealth from end users and into the banking industry.

There are definite gains to this, but also material costs.

Banking cash has the same or higher costs.

 

[Warwick]

I'm fairly sure that the last time that I used Dorking (Deepdene) the ticket machine didn't accept cash.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Banking cash has the same or higher costs.

Though to be fair most of the cost savings don't kick in until you stop accepting cash entirely.

 

[Robertj21a]

I find cash is easier to use as I can physically feel spending it, meaning I can budget easier.

I live in a rented house and I still pay the rent in cash, pay the council tax in cash, buy my train tickets in cash and even do my shopping in cash. It means as well that I'm keeping someone in employment rather than letting a machine swap some numbers over.

Doing it on my card, I risk going into an unauthorised over draft as I have a habit of buying some things I don't actually need (such as the latest wrestling top!)

The day the railways ban cash, I will not use them.

You'll have a few years to adapt.

 

[centraltrains]

What about the homeless? Would seem mean to put an end to all cash transactions, unless it was made very easy for them to get digital currency access....

 

[PeterY]

At the weekend (ukrailforum day out) I joked with the guard, "do you accept cash" for the first class upgrade.

I'm afraid it's cash only from me. I only use cards on the internet.

 

[matt_world2004]

Considering the amount of tourists who use the railway and largerly pay in cash.I think the railway will probably be one of the kast industries to stop accepting cash as payment for tickets

 

[Clayton]

At the weekend (ukrailforum day out) I joked with the guard, "do you accept cash" for the first class upgrade.

I'm afraid it's cash only from me. I only use cards on the internet.

I can’t see the point of being so definite. Presumably you’ll change your view eventually

 

[sheff1]

I visited Malmo on a day trip earlier this year from Copenhagen and didn't see any Swedish currency. Indeed, many shops had signs up saying that they didn't accept cash, and things like public toilets were opened using a contactless card. I believe that this reflects Swedish society more widely, which has moved quickly away from cash.

Yes, Sweden has moved quickly to becoming a card society. A key difference to the UK regarding transport, in my experience at least, is that if the company's equipment is not working the passenger is not inconvenienced or, worse, accused of criminality.

To give an example, I boarded a bus for an inter-town journey, the fare for which was over £15. The bus card reader was not working but I was waved aboard and specifically told the journey was free of charge - no question of being asked to pay at the end of the journey, which was a station where the ticket machine could have been used to buy the relevant ticket.

 

[sheff1]

I have heard comments like "Cash? Nobody carries cash in London any more" on a few occasions.

Expect visiting Northerners ! It is commonplace in these parts for people doing big supermarket shops (sometimes £100+) to pay in cash. Also, in Sheffield the Supertram does not accept cards for on board payment. I have witnessed a number of nonplussed Southerners boarding at the station being told to alight at the next stop and use a cash machine to get some money.

 

[Lancs]

OK, the traditional collection wouldn't work so well, but I'm sure alternative methods could work.

Given we've already mentioned the US, the Church could always tythe the regulars...

 

[Dave1987]

If you stop accepting cash at ticket machines then you simply cannot have a 'buy before you board' system in place. There are some people whom cannot get access to credit cards or debit cards. Lots of cards for younger people are 'cash cards' which cannot be used unless the vendor has a direct link to perform a 'live' transaction as they do not have access to overdraft facilities so the card provider has to check the account balance before allowing the transaction to complete. I still use cash quite a lot as it is completely untraceable and I do not wish my data on my shopping trends to be used by companies. Many people are very very careless with their personal data and data is worth more than hard currency in the modern world. People who use their cards and smart devices for everything have no idea how much data they are giving away each day for companies to use against them. Cash will be accepted for a very long time to come yet.....

 

[sheff1]

Going back to the question in the title. If you class on board catering as part of "the railway" then the answer would appear to be no. Announcements that the trolley or buffet attendant can only accept cash seem to be a regular feature on my travels.