Arriva Trains Wales - it’s the final countdown

[Rhydgaled]

13th October 2018. Last service will actually be a bus replacement between Hereford and Cardiff leaving @ 0010 on 14th.
The 2354 Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury wont arrive until 0045.

Thanks for the reply. I take it the 00:57 Carmarthen to Fishguard on the morning of the 14th will be a KAW&B service then (although I think this working would start back from Manchester on the 13th if the trains were running). If so, would that be the first KAW&B service? Interesting turn of events if both the last ATW service and the first KAW&B service are to be replacement buses...

I tried to answer these questions myself by checking the GWR journey planner and RealTime Trains but they are still listing everything on the 14th with the code AW and description Arriva Trains Wales. Is this something that normaly changes in advance of franchise handover or does the rail industry computer system not allow for this?

Unrelated note but I was on the 14:09 Birmingham Intl to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli today that was formed of 150255 from Birmingham. Needless to say that was packed. Set swap due at Shrewsbury.

On its own or coupled to a 158? The journey must have been pretty horrific if the former.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Thanks for the reply. I take it the 00:57 Carmarthen to Fishguard on the morning of the 14th will be a KAW&B service then (although I think this working would start back from Manchester on the 13th if the trains were running). If so, would that be the first KAW&B service? Interesting turn of events if both the last ATW service and the first KAW&B service are to be replacement buses...

I tried to answer these questions myself by checking the GWR journey planner and RealTime Trains but they are still listing everything on the 14th with the code AW and description Arriva Trains Wales. Is this something that normaly changes in advance of franchise handover or does the rail industry computer system not allow for this?

On its own or coupled to a 158? The journey must have been pretty horrific if the former.

Could only have been to Shrewsbury as only 158s are permitted on the Cambrian.

 

[Parallel]

On its own or coupled to a 158? The journey must have been pretty horrific if the former.

On its own. Also saw it arriving at New St earlier in the day (from Holyhead) and it was also packed. Quite rare that a 2-car 150 makes it to B’ham. The only other time I guess would be with WMR on a Hereford service.

 

[Parallel]

Double post - please delete.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Often - handover is after a gap of the last service train of the previous day "inside clear" - then the first train of the day becomes the new franchisee - 0200 used to be the favourite time .

If you want to be bored - the last BR NLR train was the 0034 EUS to MK , the first of the new order was the 0331 MK - EUS. Amazingly formed of the same unit and crews. Night shift obviously.

Any suitable Welsh candidates then ! - North or South ?

 

[alistairlees]

I tried to answer these questions myself by checking the GWR journey planner and RealTime Trains but they are still listing everything on the 14th with the code AW and description Arriva Trains Wales. Is this something that normaly changes in advance of franchise handover or does the rail industry computer system not allow for this?

So far as I know there is no concept of a service provider (TOC) until a certain date, and then another from that date, in rail systems. Service providers either exist, or they don't. So there has to be a mass changeover at some point.

 

[krus_aragon]

If you want to be bored - the last BR NLR train was the 0034 EUS to MK , the first of the new order was the 0331 MK - EUS. Amazingly formed of the same unit and crews. Night shift obviously.

Any suitable Welsh candidates then ! - North or South ?

I was thinking of the night boat train to Fishguard Harbour: arrives at ~2am from Manchester, and then forms a service to Carmarthen, arriving at half past three. Unfortunately on a Sunday morning these two services are timetabled to be provided by a bus.

There isn't anything similar in North Wales since Virgin withdrew the night boat train (resulting in many travellers festering in Holyhead waiting for the first train of the day).

The earliest non-bus service I can find on the morning of the 14th is the 0738 from Cardiff to Ebbw Vale.

 

[swt_passenger]

So far as I know there is no concept of a service provider (TOC) until a certain date, and then another from that date, in rail systems. Service providers either exist, or they don't. So there has to be a mass changeover at some point.

Or not at all, as seen with GR still being used for successive ECML operators. It isn’t likely but not impossible that AW for KAW could stay in use...

 

[Journeyman]

So far as I know there is no concept of a service provider (TOC) until a certain date, and then another from that date, in rail systems. Service providers either exist, or they don't. So there has to be a mass changeover at some point.

Changeovers usually happen at 0200, because very few TOCs operate at that time. When Caledonian Sleeper launched as a separate franchise in 2015, the changeover was moved to 1400 the day before the ScotRail franchise changed to Abellio, to avoid trains and crews changing operator en-route. This was important as Serco had contracts with entirely different parties for haulage and maintenance.

 

[JetStream]

Wouldn't the handover best be done at 4am, given that's when day returns cease to be valid?

 

[Rhydgaled]

So far as I know there is no concept of a service provider (TOC) until a certain date, and then another from that date, in rail systems. Service providers either exist, or they don't. So there has to be a mass changeover at some point.

Thanks for the reply. I assume that means that, once the change is made, services on the 13th (and prior) will appear as operated by KAW&B on RealTimeTrains etc. (assuming of course that the change is made before the historical information for those dates is removed from the system)?

I was thinking of the night boat train to Fishguard Harbour: arrives at ~2am from Manchester, and then forms a service to Carmarthen, arriving at half past three. Unfortunately on a Sunday morning these two services are timetabled to be provided by a bus.

It's not a 'boat train' anymore; the ferry was retimed a while ago and now leaves Fishguard at 23:45. Also I think the outward 02:xx from Fishguard runs through to Swansea (on weekdays anyway). ATW removed the overnight train when the ferry times changed, but were forced to put it back (despite there now being no ferry to connect with) because the franchise agreement specified that there must be a train at that sort of time. I expect it often runs empty (aside from the driver and guard).

If the changeover is at 2am though, that would make the 00:57 Carmarthen to Fishguard bus on the morning of the 14th an ATW service, but according to Gareth Marston (upthread) the last ATW service will be 00:10 Hereford to Cardiff, which would put the handover sometime between 00:10 and 00:57 if the latter is to be a KAW&B service.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Anyone else heard the new goodbye from Arriva message on the PA's?

 

[Parallel]

Anyone else heard the new goodbye from Arriva message on the PA's?

What does it say?

 

[Cardiff123]

Arriva are running a #Diolch campaign for the next few weeks apparently. Posters, announcements, free chocolates, thanking passengers for enduring ATW for the last 15 years.

https://twitter.com/BigLearningCo/status/1038013026228756480?s=19
https://twitter.com/Equinox_Comms/status/1037993200517099520?s=19

 

[js1000]

Arriva Trains Wales? Consistent if unspectacular. Got to remember in 2003 the railways were only just starting to improve with increased passengers after the privitisation and numerous safety failings. Arriva's remit was to stabilise the franchise at the time. Looking forward to seeing increased investment under KeolisAmey.

 

[thenorthern]

Arriva Trains Wales have as others pointed out been rather mediocre, there have been no new trains and only the only stock built post-privatisation has been the Class 175s built for First North Western.

Lets not forget though when Arriva Trains Wales came into existence the concept of a Wales and Borders franchise was relatively new as when the railways were privatised there was Wales and West in the south, Cardiff Railway Company for the Valley Lines, Central Trains for the Cambrian Line and First North Western for the North Wales Line and Wrexham to Bidston Line. The concept of a single Wales franchise was relatively new as the National Express Wales and Borders company had only operated the services in North Wales for 3 month prior to Arriva Trains Wales and Wales and Borders only really operated it in preparation for Arriva.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't. I like the 'Ocean Blue' livery first seen on Gerald and then the 158s (although the original Gerald, with turquoise doors rather than the later light blue that matches the 158s, was my favoriate) but the 175s (and other stock in that livery) just look drab to me. It is the vibrant turquoise Arriva have splashed over the stations that I really hate though.

Arriva's buses in Wales (which won't be changing ownership of course) seem to be sporting a variety of new liveries now, including some blue-ish ones.
I think the trains got left behind the corporate trend with the imminent franchise expiry.
There's certainly plenty of Arriva green to get rid of in the north, including all the new buildings at Chester.
Slightly older than ATW's colours, Railtrack/NR painted its infrastructure (signal boxes etc) in a darker green which I take to be Great Western Holdings green (who ran North Western Trains before First took over), as seen on their GW HSTs at the same time.
So there's a clash of greens on the ATW network in the north.
Not to mention First's lilac stripe in the 175s...

 

[krus_aragon]

Not to mention First's lilac stripe in the 175s...

Remember that until their recent refurbishment the 158s still had Regional Railways colours on the overhead luggage racks!

 

[Cardiff123]

Arriva Trains Wales? Consistent if unspectacular. Got to remember in 2003 the railways were only just starting to improve with increased passengers after the privitisation and numerous safety failings. Arriva's remit was to stabilise the franchise at the time. Looking forward to seeing increased investment under KeolisAmey.

There was no need for the Blair govt at the time to condemn Wales to a 15 year no-growth, no investment franchise. The 2003 franchise should've been 10 years maximum. It was clear by 2006/07 that passenger numbers were rising and extra trains were needed, but it was near impossible to do much about it without big financial penalties.

Arriva's buses in Wales (which won't be changing ownership of course) seem to be sporting a variety of new liveries now, including some blue-ish ones.
I think the trains got left behind the corporate trend with the imminent franchise expiry.
There's certainly plenty of Arriva green to get rid of in the north, including all the new buildings at Chester.
Slightly older than ATW's colours, Railtrack/NR painted its infrastructure (signal boxes etc) in a darker green which I take to be Great Western Holdings green (who ran North Western Trains before First took over), as seen on their GW HSTs at the same time.
So there's a clash of greens on the ATW network in the north.
Not to mention First's lilac stripe in the 175s...

Cardiff Central is painted in dark green with no Arriva turquoise in sight. It'll be interesting to see if it ends up in TfW colours of red and black, as I've heard nothing about Cardiff Central transferring to Network Rail management, so I assume it will be a TfW managed station.

 

[Jez]

Thanks for the reply. I take it the 00:57 Carmarthen to Fishguard on the morning of the 14th will be a KAW&B service then (although I think this working would start back from Manchester on the 13th if the trains were running). If so, would that be the first KAW&B service? Interesting turn of events if both the last ATW service and the first KAW&B service are to be replacement buses...

I could be wrong but I think only on Monday to Friday evenings the "overnight" Fishguard starts at Manchester arriving into Fishguard Harbour at around 2.30am.

I would imagine any services running overnight into the 14th October would still be ATW as technically return tickets are still valid until about 4am?

 

[PHILIPE]

I could be wrong but I think only on Monday to Friday evenings the "overnight" Fishguard starts at Manchester arriving into Fishguard Harbour at around 2.30am.

I would imagine any services running overnight into the 14th October would still be ATW as technically return tickets are still valid until about 4am?

Bus from Carmarthen Saturday night/Sunday

 

[Rhydgaled]

Slightly older than ATW's colours, Railtrack/NR painted its infrastructure (signal boxes etc) in a darker green which I take to be Great Western Holdings green (who ran North Western Trains before First took over), as seen on their GW HSTs at the same time.
So there's a clash of greens on the ATW network in the north.

Not just in the north. Whitland station is a real mess. The footbridge was renovated a few years ago and painted in a rather nice traditional green and white/cream, but Arriva have applied their vile turquoise to the 'shelter' on the island platform and to the platform benches. Meanwhile, the canopy and the doors of the main station building still carry Regional Railways / Wales & West blue. Incidently the station building was 'renovated' fairly recently (well into ATW's time; as was the footbridge work) so the 'regional railways' blue was actually applied to those doors long after the end of BR. Unfortunately when the buiding was renovated they messed with the brickwork and windows managing to make the platform side look even worse than it did previously, with tiny windows high up the walls and new brickwork which clashes horribly with the older weathered bricks.

When the community rail partnership for the area is re-established I hope the building can be brought back into passenger use (a waiting room and toilets are needed for passengers changing between the Pembrokeshire branches) and the whole lot restored to Britsh Rail western region chocolate and cream colours.

Not to mention First's lilac stripe in the 175s...

Although, for some reason, both the 180s and 175s have a greenish stripe on the interior doors which looks very similar to ATW colours.

 

[emoaconr]

There's certainly plenty of Arriva green to get rid of in the north, including all the new buildings at Chester.
Slightly older than ATW's colours, Railtrack/NR painted its infrastructure (signal boxes etc) in a darker green which I take to be Great Western Holdings green (who ran North Western Trains before First took over), as seen on their GW HSTs at the same time.

I think I've mentioned before, but the majority of the mainline/larger stations in North Wales are in a dark green/red/cream scheme which seemed to be applied back in FNW days. This colour scheme has been continued and re-applied when, for example, the new footbridge to platform 4 was built at Wrexham General. Smaller stations seem to have the Arriva turquoise and cream as standard (as well as Bangor when I last visited). There is a dark blue / red / white scheme at Caergwrle and Buckley stations, dark red and cream at Llandudno, as well as an odd black and cream scheme at Gwersyllt. Wrexham Central has a mix of FNW dark green with Arriva turquoise - but no cream.

However, seen this over on NWRail:
http://nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

As well of course as the Metro signs going in the South:
(Wikipedia)

 

[ATW158Xpress]

I think I've mentioned before, but the majority of the mainline/larger stations in North Wales are in a dark green/red/cream scheme which seemed to be applied back in FNW days. This colour scheme has been continued and re-applied when, for example, the new footbridge to platform 4 was built at Wrexham General. Smaller stations seem to have the Arriva turquoise and cream as standard (as well as Bangor when I last visited). There is a dark blue / red / white scheme at Caergwrle and Buckley stations, dark red and cream at Llandudno, as well as an odd black and cream scheme at Gwersyllt. Wrexham Central has a mix of FNW dark green with Arriva turquoise - but no cream.

However, seen this over on NWRail:
http://nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

As well of course as the Metro signs going in the South:
(Wikipedia)

That the first TfW logo I saw printed. I bet it’s taped over for 6 weeks until 14 October.

 

[CardiffKid]

Got to love a worker in a hard hat and high viz putting a sticker on a sign.

What do we all expect the reaction to be when stations in the Marches get this re brand?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Got to love a worker in a hard hat and high viz putting a sticker on a sign.

What do we all expect the reaction to be when stations in the Marches get this re brand?

Are they getting that version, or are they going for a "toned down" version in the manner the Merseyrail stations outside the PTE have tended to have (small Merseyrail text at the bottom, but the big yellow M omitted).

 

[CardiffKid]

Are they getting that version, or are they going for a "toned down" version in the manner the Merseyrail stations outside the PTE have tended to have (small Merseyrail text at the bottom, but the big yellow M omitted).

What Merseyrail stations will TfW be running?

 

[krus_aragon]

What Merseyrail stations will TfW be running?

I think you've misunderstood. Merseyrail run some stations outside the Merseytravel(?) area, and have subdued their branding there accordingly. The suggestion is that W&B will do something similar in stations outside Wales.

 

[Cardiff123]

Maybe ''Wales and Borders" will be used on the Marches (but still using the big 'T' logo). I'm sure that's what will be on the trains rather than "Transport for Wales".

 

[Gareth Marston]

Maybe ''Wales and Borders" will be used on the Marches (but still using the big 'T' logo). I'm sure that's what will be on the trains rather than "Transport for Wales".

The logo is pretty clear on the Video thats been put out by Keolis about the 230's https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/new-north-wales-trains-slower-15116084