On any given day, a unit is assigned a set of journeys (both empty and for passenger use). That set of movements what constitutes a diagram, and each diagram is given a unique alphanumeric ID depending on the movements and what depot the unit is allocated to.
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Thameslink Programme, South Central & South Eastern area fleet cascades etc
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westcoaster
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being pedantic but techincally speaking there is one train, that is the 2334 ex st pancras gets back to bedford on sat morning.
in other news there was a unit drag from bedford to wolverton yesterday via the marston vale line, unit 319370 being top and tailed by DB 66's 66180+ 66099 + cargowagons+ translators. seems strange as this is normally a move with freightliner drivers via a long circular route via south london.
mackenzie_blu
Member
News fresh from Cauldwell depot
Tomorrow will see a 377/5 move from Selhurst to Cauldwell 'around lunch time'. No unit details given but seeing as 377506 has been there the longest, monies on that unit. Told few weeks back that a 377/2 is moving back to Southern to balance stock when the 12th (this unit will be that one) but no details on that move for tomorrow. It could be 377213 which has had a bad time working for FCC.
Cauldwell also expect the 13th 377/5 next week on tuesday or wednesday. This would be 377516.
377520 is still expected to be at Cauldwell in two weeks time, around the 9th Sept.
Wonder if we're gonna get any new deliveries from Derby as Southern may run out of units to test!
Tomorrow will see a 377/5 move from Selhurst to Cauldwell 'around lunch time'. No unit details given but seeing as 377506 has been there the longest, monies on that unit. Told few weeks back that a 377/2 is moving back to Southern to balance stock when the 12th (this unit will be that one) but no details on that move for tomorrow. It could be 377213 which has had a bad time working for FCC.
Cauldwell also expect the 13th 377/5 next week on tuesday or wednesday. This would be 377516.
377520 is still expected to be at Cauldwell in two weeks time, around the 9th Sept.
Wonder if we're gonna get any new deliveries from Derby as Southern may run out of units to test!
Fincra5
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i reckon southern will want to retest the stock from FCC when it is returned. To make sure it has been looked after. Giving that it is the 1st group i doubt it has...
Altough havent they been maintained by southern selhurst crews?
Altough havent they been maintained by southern selhurst crews?
mackenzie_blu
Member
I assume you mean the 377/2? The deal with FCC means any work carried out on the unit is shared with Selhurst depot so Southern know how the units are doing.
Also note that the 377 have been maintance in the extended Cauldwell depot at Bedford and this will continue for as long as the 377's are with FCC.
As for news 377207 went back to Selhurst today leaving Cauldwell around 1300 as 5Z10. Can't confirm what its timings were as the computer tracking system was down. I saw it go through Snow Hill at 1430.
As 5Z52, 377516 is doing Selhurst - Bedford via Kentish Town and then Moorgate to test some DOO balises.
377520 went out for the first time with 377506 doing some DC runs. 377516 also managed to get some Ac runs with 377215 up to Milton Keynes.
377513 delivered to Cauldwell on monday still hasn't gone into passenger service.
MCR247
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I think he meant the /5s when they head to Southern
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mackenzie_blu
Member
All kewl.
FCC still have to tell Southern what workj has been done on the units but work is still needed as the 377/5 are set for for FCC mode so they require going back to Southern software,Southern version step boards, logos and maps etc etc so will be awhile from leaving cauldwell to going into service. Believe the returned 377/2 took a few days before they could be put into service for Southern.
Just heard from up top and the issue with the side displays is being looked at. Currently they show the next station but stations like St Pancras this is causing confusion. Is it a train to St Albans or next stop St Albans? A new software update is coming which will add "Next station:" to the top line to stop this confusion.
FCC still have to tell Southern what workj has been done on the units but work is still needed as the 377/5 are set for for FCC mode so they require going back to Southern software,Southern version step boards, logos and maps etc etc so will be awhile from leaving cauldwell to going into service. Believe the returned 377/2 took a few days before they could be put into service for Southern.
Just heard from up top and the issue with the side displays is being looked at. Currently they show the next station but stations like St Pancras this is causing confusion. Is it a train to St Albans or next stop St Albans? A new software update is coming which will add "Next station:" to the top line to stop this confusion.
westcoaster
Established Member
504 +509 were on 1T20 when they got stuck behind 66602 which had failed just south of St Albans, which ment being sent back bang road to radlett where they detrained and had to wait for the backed up trains, to clear before going back to radlett junction, and empties to bedford.
in other news the reason 319370 went off to wolverton was not just for refurb, but also because it has undisclosed cab floor damage, 430 has also been pair restricted for the last few days because of graffiti damage in one off the cabs, all windows had been etched, i believe this was done at the same time as the external damage.
in other news the reason 319370 went off to wolverton was not just for refurb, but also because it has undisclosed cab floor damage, 430 has also been pair restricted for the last few days because of graffiti damage in one off the cabs, all windows had been etched, i believe this was done at the same time as the external damage.
Crikey - so that train was out of service for the rest of the day?
Any ideas if the 377s running on Bank Holiday Monday? The Farringdon-Blackfriars stretch is closed so I was wondering if it will be weekend diagrams.
westcoaster
Established Member
no 377's on monday.
i think the unit got swapped for a later service, and an other unit stepped up in its place.
i think the unit got swapped for a later service, and an other unit stepped up in its place.
Why couldn't they have kept that unit running? It wasn't having problems (I was sitting in it right until they terminated it and kept it at the station for 10 minutes) so couldn't they have ran it from Bedford as soon as the diagram allowed?
westcoaster
Established Member
i think there are some crossed wires, the unit kept running but just in the place of another 8 car 377. i.e once the 504+509 reached bedford it was too late for there next booked service, so another 8 car 377 came out the carriage sidings to work 504+509's next service (stepping up), so then 504+509 then worked the other sets service. hope that helps.
westcoaster
Established Member
Shame 377s aren't running tomorrow, hey-ho, I'll use the line Tuesday instead, less commuter chaos anyway
we will see about that
, dont forget major track and signalling work this weekend in snow hill tunnel.we will see about that
Well, commuters as in day trippers to Brighton or south coast, they'll be going to STP to get the tube to the southern terminii I suppose.
westcoaster
Established Member
seeing as there has now been talk of the 319's of to pastures new i could not help laughing, at the fact they are to be refurbed again and will have passenger air-con installed, what a kick in the teeth of TL passengers who for decades have put up with high fares and the heat in the summer.
anyone have the breakdown as to where the units will go?
anyone have the breakdown as to where the units will go?
Aictos
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At a guess, I'm going with FTPE instead of 185s as FCC will also be disposing of the 365s as well and the GWML is ideal for the 365s seeing as it's already cleared for the 165s/166s which are the diesel members of the Networker family.
Plus moving on from 2, 3, 4 or even 6 cars to 4 or 8 cars would surely only benefit the locals?
No point in moving the 365s to FTPE as work would have to be done to clear them for the routes and even more work done...
Running 100mph electric stock in 4 or even 8 car formations must also been benefical to the route between Merseyside and Scotland instead of 3 or 6 cars as it is at the moment.
So my money is on the following to happen:
319s refurbished yet again to move to FTPE
365s to move to FGW
313s to be replaced by some version of the 378s
Not sure on the 321s or 317s though...
Still, would have welcomed the chance to see some dual voltage 444s/350s for both the GN and the TL routes then see more 10 or 12 cars operating
According to the electrification plan, the thameslink stock (impying 319s) will be transferred to Liverpool - Manchester services, however 86 units is definitely too many for this route.
It also says that 350s will be transferred to FTPE for the Scotland services, so maybe some 319s will instead go to London Midland to displace the transferred 350s.
As for the rest of the 319s, I reckon that Merseyrail will be too late ordering new stock before the 507s/508s come off lease so the remaing 319s could be temporarily put to use on the Merseyrail network as the new stock is still being delivered. This would work seeing that 319s have emergency doors at the front and rear for the tunnel regulations, however they will only be able to work as single units seeing that they are 4 cars long, and many of the Merseyrail platforms are only suitable for up to 6 car trains.
As for 365s, if they're moving, then I'm also guessing that they'll be off to FGW seeing that they're AC only, and I can't see London Midland using them on the WCML.
It also says that 350s will be transferred to FTPE for the Scotland services, so maybe some 319s will instead go to London Midland to displace the transferred 350s.
As for the rest of the 319s, I reckon that Merseyrail will be too late ordering new stock before the 507s/508s come off lease so the remaing 319s could be temporarily put to use on the Merseyrail network as the new stock is still being delivered. This would work seeing that 319s have emergency doors at the front and rear for the tunnel regulations, however they will only be able to work as single units seeing that they are 4 cars long, and many of the Merseyrail platforms are only suitable for up to 6 car trains.
As for 365s, if they're moving, then I'm also guessing that they'll be off to FGW seeing that they're AC only, and I can't see London Midland using them on the WCML.
MCR247
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Would 319s fit in the Mersey tunnels?
According to the dimensions the longest cars in the class 319s are the MSO and TSOL at 19.92m, which happens to be the same length as the longest car in 507s/508s which is the TSO.
As a result, I'm saying yes. MPVs go through the tunnels also and they're not really of a compact size, so I'd also say that most commuter-style EMUs would fit.
As a result, I'm saying yes. MPVs go through the tunnels also and they're not really of a compact size, so I'd also say that most commuter-style EMUs would fit.
westcoaster
Established Member
i highly dout that the 365's will go to fgw as there will not be enough of them, ill bet that the the greater number of 319's will mean they will go to fgw.
SouthEastern-465
Established Member
They'll stay in the family then!?
The biggest problem there is that the plan doesn't explicitly say 350s... it says "new stock used on WCML" or something to that extent. It could be that 350/1s bugger off, and new /3s arrive, or new Pendo units are ordered...
LM won't settle for stock older, now that they have replaced most of the 321s as per franchise agreement.
Well the full Liverpool to Manchester electrification is due to take 4 years, so I'm guessing phase 1, after which the '4 car stock in use on the WCML' will be transferred to FTPE, will take about 2 years from now to complete.
I would have thought that it's a bit too late to order new stock that needs to be in use in around two years, but I'm also doubting what LM will be satisfied with. Maybe they'll end up running their new 172s on some routes which are fully under the wires, or hanging on to their 323s a bit longer - I can't see how Northern would make use of the full 323 fleet when most of their routes aren't electrified, and those that are, already have electric traction in use.
we will see about that
Im amazed that FCC are getting away with advertising (at Gatwick) that the service is terminating at London Bridge and passengers should use the northern line or replacement buses from London Bridge to St Pancras. When the Vic line is running Gat Exp / Southern to Vic and then tube is at least 20 mins quicker.
mackenzie_blu
Member
Bit harsh when its not FCC fault the works being done and why shouldn't the company advertised their service? As you point out they clearly state you have to use a Tube to cross Central London and its not like FCC wouldn't like a full service but the whole franchice is trying to communicate to passengers that work is being done for the greater good while still transporting as many people around as possible. Also note Southern tickets are valid to St Pancras without paying for a Tube ride where as FCC tickets are free to use the Tube as far as West Hampstead.
Aictos
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Well said Mack, yes it's a bugger at times for all on the TL route but the end result will well deserved.
More seats, more services, more destinations and newer trains - for all that, it's a price worth paying for a few years disruption.
I'm going to take a quote from a former employer and say "I'm lovin' it" when it comes to certain projects like this for FCC -Now if only we had FTPE management
Who the majority used to run the old First Great Eastern franchise, didn't they?
MCR247
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I cant see how its 20 mins quicker anyhow. FCC trains take 31 mins to London Bridge compared to 36 mins for Southern to Victoria. Tube is 5 mins longer from London bridge so its the same time and probably shorter connection walks to underground at either end. You could save 5 mins by using Gatwick Express but at a very high price.
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