Do we underuse our country branch lines for tourism?

[yorksrob]

If national rail branch lines charged the same fares as most heritage lines, and got most of their staff to work for free, then they would be much healthier financially.

Its very difficult to use a heritage line to get anywhere as a tourist.

Me and the family managed to visit Howarth by train, but even then we had to get the bus back due to timings.

Our journeys to resorts on the national network have generally been a lot easier and more cost effective.

 

[Bald Rick]

Its very difficult to use a heritage line to get anywhere as a tourist.

Me and the family managed to visit Howarth by train, but even then we had to get the bus back due to timings.

Our journeys to resorts on the national network have generally been a lot easier and more cost effective.

Exactly my point. Heritage railways are often seen as successful. But then it’s easy to run a successful railway when you open for fewer than half the days a year, for 10 hours a day maximum, have largely free labour and charge more than £1 a mile one way.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

In Devon and Cornwall the local rail partnership promotes the lines in two guides and most of the lines also have some sort of ale trail aimed at couples, the two guides also list events taking place in the area too. The Yorkshire Coast Line is also promted by the local rail users group through whatever they publish and is available to pick up in leaflet form. The Hope Valley Line (along with the Buxton and Glossop Lines) are sort of promoted in a leaflet that covers guided walks.

What really needs to be done to increase use on branchlines is to, where possible, introduce some sort of rail based park and ride so that people can ditch the car at one station and then venture along the line by train, with Liskeard being an ideal candidate to name one. OK, I can't see how that would work on the Yorkshire Coast Line but if space was available I could see it work at both Glossop and at Penistone, you could even have a bus running between the two via the A628 which in turn takes traffic off the road.

 

[Mikey C]

In Devon and Cornwall the local rail partnership promotes the lines in two guides and most of the lines also have some sort of ale trail aimed at couples, the two guides also list events taking place in the area too. The Yorkshire Coast Line is also promted by the local rail users group through whatever they publish and is available to pick up in leaflet form. The Hope Valley Line (along with the Buxton and Glossop Lines) are sort of promoted in a leaflet that covers guided walks.

What really needs to be done to increase use on branchlines is to, where possible, introduce some sort of rail based park and ride so that people can ditch the car at one station and then venture along the line by train, with Liskeard being an ideal candidate to name one. OK, I can't see how that would work on the Yorkshire Coast Line but if space was available I could see it work at both Glossop and at Penistone, you could even have a bus running between the two via the A628 which in turn takes traffic off the road.

The frequency of the service might be considered inadequate for a park and ride though. I can't imagine many families being prepared to drive up to the park and ride, then wait 55 minutes for the train to their final destination.

Rail ale promotions are ideal for the railway. Indeed I once spent a day out of Inverness exploring whisky distilleries! Even here the lack of frequency is very restrictive, knowing that when you arrive somewhere you have 90 minutes (or whatever) until the next train, when you might want to stay longer or leave after 30 minutes...

 

[jimm]

Rail ale promotions are ideal for the railway

I doubt railway staff, police and residents along the Transpennine ale trail would agree with that statement.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To an extent it depends on where people are going. If someone is just going to Lake Windermere, then the train is ideal. If they want to explore the area, walk up hills etc then a car then becomes more useful.

It does, though the bus service is a lot better than people think it is, and even serves some quite rural places like Great Langdale with a not frequent but entirely usable service. It's more mindset than practicality a lot of the time.

By contrast the bus service in Snowdonia is rubbish.

 

[underbank]

Exactly my point. Heritage railways are often seen as successful. But then it’s easy to run a successful railway when you open for fewer than half the days a year, for 10 hours a day maximum, have largely free labour and charge more than £1 a mile one way.

But it shows a clear demand and the fact that "tourists" will pay a hefty premium. There must be a way of changing the revenue model so that train op companies who put on special "tourist-y" services and forge bonds with other tourist attractions can tap into that revenue stream. After all, the infrastructure on branch lines is already in place. Pretty poor that whilst the rest of Cumbria/Lake District has it's busiest day on a Sunday, the south cumbria coast line is just 1 train every two hours.

 

[yorksrob]

The Whitby branch is a perfect illustration of the problem.

Since nobody seems able to run a timetable that's remotely fit for purpose, one might hope that the railway would alleviate the issue by providing adequate capacity on trains that do run.

I had had modest hopes for today. A friend from the area had told me that Northern Rail had "gotten better" recently at strengthening busy services on the line, and if you're going to strengthen a service, a bank holiday Saturday with forecast good weather would be one I would begin with. There was a spare pacer in the siding at Middlesbrough, and the train was leaving from platform 1 unusually, suggesting some shuffling of stock.

Sadly, I was to be disappointed as no strengthening was forthcoming, although not as disappointed as the families who had to stand or sit along the aisle all the way from Middlesbrough. It didn't require Nostradamus or Mystic Meg to realise that this was going to be a busy day, yet again, no one in management seemed to make any provision for this.

The standing passengers remained in good spirits, but then again Esk valley passengers are used to a litany of failure, be it at Government, ministry or management level.

 

[yorksrob]

The return service has arrived and is already beginning to look a bit busy a quarter of an hour before departure.

Arriva trains Northern seem to just make the same mistakes again and again.

 

[philthetube]

It is not just branch lines that fail to realise potential from tourists, the West coast Main Line, and many others could also benefit, a walks book, which could be sold at stations could offer circular and linier walks from all stations north of Watford junction to bletchley and again north of Milton Keynes. All the operator would need to do would be to find a good local walks book, persuade them to write one of walks from their stations and bingo, revenue from selling the book and from passengers.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I doubt railway staff, police and residents along the Transpennine ale trail would agree with that statement.

The Transpennine Ale Trail isn't an ale trail, its just an excuse for hoards of stag and hen dos to go out and behave in an anti social manner. When does an ale trail require someone to dress up in fancy dress?

Plus the Transpennine Ale Trail is in the wrong place it should have been developed for the Penistone Line since there's a boozer at nearly every station. The Pontefract Line would have also been a great line to also have an ale trail, as just as the Penistone Line has, there's a pub at most of the Pontefract Line stations.

 

[jimm]

The original intention was that it should be a real ale trail - a spot of TV coverage and the effect of the internet changed all that. For the worse.

The Penistone Line Partnership has run beer festival promotions in the past but in recent years has preferred to keep things low-key, such as having local beers available on its music trains - probably to avoid any risk of encouraging another Transpennine trail scenario.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The original intention was that it should be a real ale trail - a spot of TV coverage and the effect of the internet changed all that. For the worse.

The Penistone Line Partnership has run beer festival promotions in the past but in recent years has preferred to keep things low-key, such as having local beers available on its music trains - probably to avoid any risk of encouraging another Transpennine trail scenario.

I'm sure the Devon and Cornwall ale trails still do the downloadable sheet where you get it stamped at participating pubs along the route and you have a certain number of stamps before you can send the said sheet off to the address on it and you get a T shirt. I'm sure something similar could be worked for the Transpennine Ale Trail which would require a proper ale to be bought, at least one meal purchased and at least 12 stamps (of which four are from participating boozers in Greater Manchester) before ones sheet an be sent off for a T shirt. This would stop the Marsden turnbacks because of the county boundary and would force those doing the trail to do it properly.

Other than ale trails, music trains and park and rides - what other forms of tourism could get people to use the various branchlines in Britain?

 

[al78]

It does, though the bus service is a lot better than people think it is, and even serves some quite rural places like Great Langdale with a not frequent but entirely usable service. It's more mindset than practicality a lot of the time.

By contrast the bus service in Snowdonia is rubbish.

I agree. I once went on a walking holiday in the Lake district and didn't use the car whilst I was there. I did linear walks between valleys which went over the fells, for which public transport is ideal. Even after twisting my ankle I was able to use buses to get to some of the tourist attractions. I've never tried the bus service in Snowdonia, but I have looked at the feasibility of using public transport to get to Llyn Ogwen, hiking north over the hills, and finishing at Llanfairfechan to get back to Salford, but it doesn't appear to be feasible as a day trip (the transport from Salford there and back takes too long).

 

[yorksrob]

I caught the bus from Windermere to Conniston last year. I was shocked and horrified to find that the single journey was ten pounds. After some incredulity, the driver told me about the day rover for nine pounds !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I caught the bus from Windermere to Conniston last year. I was shocked and horrified to find that the single journey was ten pounds. After some incredulity, the driver told me about the day rover for nine pounds !

I suppose one upside of Snowdonia's bus service is that it is very cheap in comparison. Stagecoach seem to have taken the same line for the Lakes as Vectis do on the Isle of Wight - charge the tourists a small fortune but make it very good indeed. (Vectis may well be the best rural bus service in the world).

 

[yorksrob]

I suppose one upside of Snowdonia's bus service is that it is very cheap in comparison. Stagecoach seem to have taken the same line for the Lakes as Vectis do on the Isle of Wight - charge the tourists a small fortune but make it very good indeed. (Vectis may well be the best rural bus service in the world).

Well. It left a sour taste in my mouth, that's for sure !

 

[meolebrace]

Biggest problem is fares. £60 from Wolves to Betws-y-Coed. Wolves to Barmouth only £25 (if there was a 7am train on a Sunday I would consider using it but alas there isn't...first train is 16:43 today)

 

[meolebrace]

Fares...pricey...over £60 for a return to Buxton from Wolves. Reduce the fares more people will use the service.

 

[meolebrace]

About 4 years ago I got the bus from Penrith to Keswick(I think) for the pencil museum. That was a tenner.

I caught the bus from Windermere to Conniston last year. I was shocked and horrified to find that the single journey was ten pounds. After some incredulity, the driver told me about the day rover for nine pounds !

 

[jimm]

I'm sure the Devon and Cornwall ale trails still do the downloadable sheet where you get it stamped at participating pubs along the route and you have a certain number of stamps before you can send the said sheet off to the address on it and you get a T shirt. I'm sure something similar could be worked for the Transpennine Ale Trail which would require a proper ale to be bought, at least one meal purchased and at least 12 stamps (of which four are from participating boozers in Greater Manchester) before ones sheet an be sent off for a T shirt. This would stop the Marsden turnbacks because of the county boundary and would force those doing the trail to do it properly.

None of which is going to stop people just buying a Metro Day Rover and doing whatever they please between Batley and Marsden. Some landlords have tried refusing to sell lager and shots, others nearby have taken the money. The genie is out of the bottle and nothing is going to put it back, I'm afraid.

 

[yorksrob]

About 4 years ago I got the bus from Penrith to Keswick(I think) for the pencil museum. That was a tenner.

My goodness. If the railway was still there, it would be a darn sight more reasonable I suspect.

 

[bspahh]

Biggest problem is fares. £60 from Wolves to Betws-y-Coed. Wolves to Barmouth only £25 (if there was a 7am train on a Sunday I would consider using it but alas there isn't...first train is 16:43 today)

Couldn't you get a return from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury (£10.10) and a £36 North Wales Rover http://www.railrover.org/pages/north-wales-rover.html ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Couldn't you get a return from Wolverhampton to Shrewsbury (£10.10) and a £36 North Wales Rover http://www.railrover.org/pages/north-wales-rover.html ?

He shouldn't need to!

 

[kieron]

He shouldn't need to!

He doesn't need to. Other tickets are available, such as the Ffestiniog Round Robin, as well as various day return tickets.

 

[6Gman]

Fares...pricey...over £60 for a return to Buxton from Wolves. Reduce the fares more people will use the service.

But how big a reduction would you want? And would the increased usage balance the figures? And could the system cope?

 

[meolebrace]

But how big a reduction would you want? And would the increased usage balance the figures? And could the system cope?

We'll put it this way...road miles from Wolves to Buxton is 60miles. It's cheaper by car. Public transport should be cheaper. Therefore perhaps half price.

 

[Dr Hoo]

It has never been easy to travel by rail from Wolverhampton to Buxton (or to the middle of Snowdonia even when the Llanberis branch was open).

I thought that this thread was about making better use of surviving rural/seaside railways.

The Buxton line is an ideal way of making day trips from Manchester by rail, as the local Community Rail Partnership promotes.

Pity about people being left behind due to overcrowding on the Hope Valley pacer yesterday.

 

[trainmania100]

I think costs are probably the main drawback for this.
If you're going 20 miles, you might as well take the car for more flexibility too.
Now every Tom dick harry Harry and Mary have a car, there's really no need to drive to the station, pay and display, buy a train ticket for each person in the party, then arrange travel at the destination to the tourist attraction, when you can simply drive.
If you're going the extra miles perhaps Brighton to Portsmouth, I agree it's easier and faster by train, but at the cost of £15 per person without railcards (yes I'm sure you can get it cheaper than that, advance tickets, online booking and travel after 9 and before 7 but many won't think about these things and turn up at the station on the day)

 

[W-on-Sea]

The North Cotswolds line clearly does market itself to (especially overseas - and specificially Chinese and Japanese) tourists. The one thing that it does particularly badly (and this is obviously a broader fault in how the UK system of non-integrated public transport functions) is the absence of short connections with the bus services that tourists (among others!) are use. The bus service from Moreton-in-Marsh to the Stow-on-the-Wold, the Slaughters, Bourton-on-the-Water and ultimately Cheltenham is pretty decent, but the connections with trains from Oxford and London are often absymal (frequently 40 or 50 minutes, which for an hourly bus service is really not good enough). Not sure how the connections work with the less frequent services from Moreton to Chipping Campden, Broadway and Stratford-on-Avon. While the old rail link service from Kingham station to Chipping Norton (still advertised prominently at Kingham station) of course no longer exists, having proved itself commercially nonviable after Oxfordshire CC removed funding.