Do we underuse our country branch lines for tourism?

[yorksrob]

I think costs are probably the main drawback for this.
If you're going 20 miles, you might as well take the car for more flexibility too.
Now every Tom dick harry Harry and Mary have a car, there's really no need to drive to the station, pay and display, buy a train ticket for each person in the party, then arrange travel at the destination to the tourist attraction, when you can simply drive.
If you're going the extra miles perhaps Brighton to Portsmouth, I agree it's easier and faster by train, but at the cost of £15 per person without railcards (yes I'm sure you can get it cheaper than that, advance tickets, online booking and travel after 9 and before 7 but many won't think about these things and turn up at the station on the day)

To be fair to the TOC's in that area, they do have some very good group save offers that are turn up and go. Myself and the family often use these for reasonably priced off the cuff outings.

Sadly, this is another thing that TOC's in the North don't seem to have.

 

[Bletchleyite]

GroupSave isn't as good as it was, being now only 33% off adult fares and no child discount. The Family Travelcards (to London only) are probably the best value, and ironically they exist on a flow where people would go by train even if it was far worse than it is in terms of service and fares.

 

[yorksrob]

GroupSave isn't as good as it was, being now only 33% off adult fares and no child discount. The Family Travelcards (to London only) are probably the best value, and ironically they exist on a flow where people would go by train even if it was far worse than it is in terms of service and fares.

Ah well, we don't have any children in our family anyway. I seem to recall us getting four, maybe five day returns for the price of two ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah well, we don't have any children in our family anyway. I seem to recall us getting four, maybe five day returns for the price of two ?

It used to be that GroupSave 4 was 50% discount, and GroupSave 3 33%, with kids for a quid too. It's just a flat 33% on the adult fare now, basically a Railcard discount without a Railcard if there's at least three of you.

 

[yorksrob]

It used to be that GroupSave 4 was 50% discount, and GroupSave 3 33%, with kids for a quid too. It's just a flat 33% now, basically a Railcard discount without a Railcard if there's at least three of you.

Ah well, it may have changed, however we still find it useful.

 

[meolebrace]

Buxton is rural. But if the rail companies want people to use these rural lines they need to reduce prices and if possible increase frequency. Its the same with anything...economics! The lower the price the more people will perhaps pay the fare.

 

[edwin_m]

Buxton is rural. But if the rail companies want people to use these rural lines they need to reduce prices and if possible increase frequency. Its the same with anything...economics! The lower the price the more people will perhaps pay the fare.

Unfortunately the economics of the railway are such that if they did that they would increase costs (due to more trains and crews being needed) but revenue would not increase in proportion, because the costs of running a regional train are higher than the revenue it earns. Therefore, with very few exceptions, the TOC sticks rigidly to the minimum specification in the franchise, which is basically what the specifier thinks is appropriate for that route. Community Rail Partnerships and some TOC initiatives have helped but generally are about filling up existing trains rather than doing anything that needs extra resources.

You may wish it differently but that's essentially a political issue, more funding for the railways.

 

[6Gman]

We'll put it this way...road miles from Wolves to Buxton is 60miles. It's cheaper by car. Public transport should be cheaper. Therefore perhaps half price.

So how will this be funded?

 

[6Gman]

Buxton is rural. But if the rail companies want people to use these rural lines they need to reduce prices and if possible increase frequency. Its the same with anything...economics! The lower the price the more people will perhaps pay the fare.

"Perhaps" doesn't pay the bills.

 

[yorksrob]

"Perhaps" doesn't pay the bills.

Whereas road haulage companies never "pay the bills" anyway.

 

[6Gman]

Whereas road haulage companies never "pay the bills" anyway.

And the relevance of road hauliers is ... ?

 

[DanTrain]

Pity about people being left behind due to overcrowding on the Hope Valley pacer yesterday.

Interesting, I was on the Hope Valley on Saturday and was surprised by how quiet it was. Saying that, I was travelling into Sheffield in the morning, so probably less demand, although not that many got off the 150 in the other direction either. Maybe it was a bit early for the hoards.

 

[yorksrob]

And the relevance of road hauliers is ... ?

Because we get exercised by subsidy to passenger train operations, while remaining blissfully unaware that heavy road freight doesn't pay it's costs and effectively gets a subsidy.

 

[Bald Rick]

About 4 years ago I got the bus from Penrith to Keswick(I think) for the pencil museum. That was a tenner.

You were had then. I did it a little under 2 years ago and it was about £7. Quite reasonable I thought.

 

[Bald Rick]

Because we get exercised by subsidy to passenger train operations, while remaining blissfully unaware that heavy road freight doesn't pay it's costs and effectively gets a subsidy.

Except, on all reasonable assessments, it does. But this argument has been done multiple times before.

 

[furnessvale]

Except, on all reasonable assessments, it does. But this argument has been done multiple times before.

Those "reasonable" assessments being the ones done by the road haulage industry I suppose? Others paint a very different picture.

The truly independent Government sponsored NERA report of 2000 found that HGVs were subsidised. Since then road taxes have reduced, but road provision costs have increased, making the subsidy even greater.

But as you say, we have done this argument multiple times before.