Thameslink Brighton to Cambridge start

[A Challenge]

It does apply to thameslink trains, and I believe on the Sutton loop services it is both sections declassified?

 

[adamedwards]

Sutton trains are announced as declassified at St Albans before departure. This route used to have 2nd class only 319s.

 

[Failed Unit]

Come May timetable change all 700 operated services will be classed at TL so the rear first class will be declassified including the odd couple that run in or out of Kings Cross.

It won't be the odd couple that run out of Kings Cross. The Cambridge - Maidstone service will remain separate until at least 2020. So will be at least a service every 30 minutes from Kings Cross. The Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks peak service will also run into Kings Cross so 4x class 700s in the peak.

The later should be 100% standard seating.

If these trains ever go through the core remains to be seen, but that is a different debate.

The 2nd service to Cambridge is at an interesting time, leaving St Pancras just before 4pm so useful for some of the earlier commutors using Blackfriars. I have used the service from Finsbury Park - Blackfriars myself. But for now I will stick with changing, ticketing is easier for a start and more services. At the moment from my very limited experiece timekeeping is poor and they hit Finsbury Park with a 5-10 mins delay (all recovered by London Bridge)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Pardon my ignorance. But what is the reasoning logic behind declassifying the rear first class.

There's too much first class, but the advantage of declassifying it at the rear rather than removing it from one end or permanently declassifying one end is that it's always at the front even if a unit ends up turned.

And does the same rules apply for thameslink trains

Yes.

 

[Hadders]

Pardon my ignorance. But what is the reasoning logic behind declassifying the rear first class.

And does the same rules apply for thameslink trains

Because the trains were specified by the DfT with more 1st class provision than is needed. Combine this standard class that has fewer seats so more people can stand meant that the decision has been taken to declassify the rear 1st class compartment.

On the classic Thameslink route the rear 1st class compartment has been declassified since the trains were introduced (well over a year).

 

[Mag_seven]

Because the trains were specified by the DfT with more 1st class provision than is needed.

<sigh>

 

[bramling]

<sigh>

Yes and it's another design failure that the 8 car and 12 car versions have the same amount of first class. Surely someone could have seen how that would be wrong? Anyone associated with specifying these failed trains shouldn't be in a job now.

 

[bramling]

There's too much first class, but the advantage of declassifying it at the rear rather than removing it from one end or permanently declassifying one end is that it's always at the front even if a unit ends up turned.



Yes.

Again, on GN this is inferior to what came before. On a 12/365, there would be six separate small sections of first class, so on a down journey one could choose the one nearest the exit at destination station. On a 12-car Undesiro theres now the scope to be coming up the 250m from the platform exit if at the wrong end.

 

[jamesontheroad]

Useful for people going from Anglia to Gatwick though

Doesn't look good for National Express. Cambridge - Gatwick by coach takes about four hours, versus about 1h 40m by train.

From Norwich - Gatwick by bus, there are about 6 departures a day, and the journey takes between six and six and a half hours. Although the train is limited with just two roundtrips a day to begin with (and nothing to get you there in the morning), you can now leave Norwich at 09:40, change at Cambridge and get to Gatwick at 13:11, in just three and a half hours.

Can I ask - when will the Cambridge service go all day, and what will be the first arrival time into and last departure time from Gatwick?

EDIT - I can answer my own question; it's the May timetable change. But then the Norwich connection described above will stop working. Hourly trains from Norwich arrive in Cambridge between xx:52 and xx:01, and the Brighton trains depart at a clockface xx:54 all day long. Bugger. That's a shame.

 

[DaveN]

Again, on GN this is inferior to what came before.

It also means that standard class customers wanting the front of the train are further from it than with the old trains too

 

[Bald Rick]

It also means that standard class customers wanting the front of the train are further from it than with the old trains too

That extra 8 metres walk must be a real bind.

 

[whoosh]

EDIT - I can answer my own question; it's the May timetable change. But then the Norwich connection described above will stop working. Hourly trains from Norwich arrive in Cambridge between xx:52 and xx:01, and the Brighton trains depart at a clockface xx:54 all day long. Bugger. That's a shame.

At some point, probably December, those Cambridge to Brightons will be twice an hour instead of only once.

 

[amateur]

There's too much first class, but the advantage of declassifying it at the rear rather than removing it from one end or permanently declassifying one end is that it's always at the front even if a unit ends up turned.



Yes.

okay. Just wasn't sure if it was cos they didn't want too many plebs (if you could excuse the expression) loitering near the drivers end.

 

[jamesontheroad]

At some point, probably December, those Cambridge to Brightons will be twice an hour instead of only once.

Coolio. I like living in a city as culturally remote as Norwich, but anything that improves rail connectivity is a good thing

 

[camflyer]

Doesn't look good for National Express. Cambridge - Gatwick by coach takes about four hours, versus about 1h 40m by train.

From Norwich - Gatwick by bus, there are about 6 departures a day, and the journey takes between six and six and a half hours. Although the train is limited with just two roundtrips a day to begin with (and nothing to get you there in the morning), you can now leave Norwich at 09:40, change at Cambridge and get to Gatwick at 13:11, in just three and a half hours.

Yes, the service is going to be very useful for getting to Gatwick (and Heathrow via Farringdon). I usually have to drive from Cambridge to Gatwick as getting there by train was too much hassle and the National Express is so slow. The bus is just about bearable for Heathrow but you can forget it for Gatwick.

 

[Bungaroosh]

Uhh, you get a table. And the seats are slightly different and more padded.... OK, that's about it.

Wot no antimacassar?!

 

[B&W]

Myself and a friend did Cambridge to Brighton on Monday, can't say I was entirely enamored by the seats, back pain by Finsbury Park.

Useful for people going from Anglia to Gatwick though

Your gluttons for punishment with those seats.
Car for me every time, new car seats get more comfortable as each new train gets more uncomfortable.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Doesn't look good for National Express. Cambridge - Gatwick by coach takes about four hours, versus about 1h 40m by train.

From Norwich - Gatwick by bus, there are about 6 departures a day, and the journey takes between six and six and a half hours.

Was anybody making either of those journeys by coach?!

 

[Bungaroosh]

Was anybody making either of those journeys by coach?!

Yep, I know people who have used it for Brighton to Norwich and Brighton to Stansted...

 

[Strat-tastic]

What is this 'core' of which people speak?

It's not the Big Apple is it?

 

[rebmcr]

It won't be the odd couple that run out of Kings Cross. The Cambridge - Maidstone service will remain separate until at least 2020. So will be at least a service every 30 minutes from Kings Cross. The Welwyn Garden City - Sevenoaks peak service will also run into Kings Cross so 4x class 700s in the peak.

If these trains ever go through the core remains to be seen, but that is a different debate.

This makes zero sense — how on earth will they be able to reach Maidstone or Sevenoaks via Kings Cross?

 

[rebmcr]

What is this 'core' of which people speak?

It's not the Big Apple is it?

The Thameslink route between St Pancras Low Level and Blackfriars, where all of the services between northern and southern destinations come together.

 

[camflyer]

Good video on the new service

 

[Strat-tastic]

The Thameslink route between St Pancras Low Level and Blackfriars, where all of the services between northern and southern destinations come together.

Thanks.

 

[gallafent]

From Norwich - Gatwick by bus, there are about 6 departures a day, and the journey takes between six and six and a half hours. Although the train is limited with just two roundtrips a day to begin with (and nothing to get you there in the morning), you can now leave Norwich at 09:40, change at Cambridge and get to Gatwick at 13:11, in just three and a half hours.

… or just go Norwich - Gatwick in 2h41m, via London, taking Northern Line the two stops from Moorgate (an extremely short walk from Liverpool Street) to London Bridge (says google maps!). That might be considered a bit more annoying if one has too much luggage in tow, of course, but it's almost an hour faster still.

 

[rebmcr]

… or just go Norwich - Gatwick in 2h41m, via London, taking Northern Line the two stops from Moorgate (an extremely short walk from Liverpool Street) to London Bridge (says google maps!). That might be considered a bit more annoying if one has too much luggage in tow, of course, but it's almost an hour faster still.

If we're comparing journeys after the full Thameslink service opens, the optimum is probably via Farringdon, changing to Crossrail at Stratford to reduce the interchange a bit (vice Liverpool Street).

 

[jamesontheroad]

Was anybody making either of those journeys by coach?!

Yes, enough to sustain a direct bus every 2-3 hours day and night. Don't forget that Norwich has two universities with about 18,000 students, including many international students. Norwich (NWI) is handy for Schiphol and KLM, but many people choose to save the hassle of carrying luggage by train and go by bus direct to Heathrow or Gatwick.

 

[Failed Unit]

This makes zero sense — how on earth will they be able to reach Maidstone or Sevenoaks via Kings Cross?

Have a think about it. It will move to St Pancras when/ if it ever runs. Until then it goes to Kings Cross.

 

[Trainfan344]

I can't get booking engines to offer me a route on the direct trains between Cambridge and Brighton yet. Anyone else had any luck?

 

[Hadders]

Put in via City Thameslink. It works on Webtis sites - not checked any others.