New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[bb21]

Something a bit different to the usual fare today.

Delays on the Windsor side tonight due to a passenger trapped in the toilet onboard, who knocked the door off its runners so now had to be taken back to Waterloo for fitter's attention in order to release him.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Something a bit different to the usual fare today.

Delays on the Windsor side tonight due to a passenger trapped in the toilet onboard, who knocked the door off its runners so now had to be taken back to Waterloo for fitter's attention in order to release him.

That happened to a Basingstoke driver who was caught short at Clapham, luckily a fitter was in the yard at the time & got him out.

 

[Goldfish62]

That happened to a Basingstoke driver who was caught short at Clapham, luckily a fitter was in the yard at the time & got him out.

A couple of years ago I was on the last Reading train when someone got stuck in the toilet. The fire brigade had to be summoned to cut the door open and even that wasn't easy! Meanwhile control told the guard to tell the firemen not to damage the toilet door...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The "universal" toilet is poorly designed and should be replaced by one with a straight door on a slight angle, which would be a great deal easier to use and maintain than the naff curved one we currently have which constantly jams.

 

[infobleep]

Tonight there was a general announcement about 10 minute delays at Waterloo due to congestion.

Last night there was the same amount of delays but no general note. One might argue do you need a note for up to 20 minute delays. I'd argue I don't mind if you do or don't, just please can SWR make it more consistent in the future.

I was on an 19.48 arrival into Woking. We were just outside Woking and held there for a while. As we pulled off, the guard finally announced our destination and apologised for the delay, for which he had no idea. He put down to earlier delays. We were now 8 minutes late.

Fair enough he had no idea but did it really have to take so long before we were told anything?

Looking at National Rail Enquiries, a train from Portsmouth Harbour was delayed at Worpolesden and then pathed into platform 5 at Woking. We were held at the signal whilst it was delayed. Not certain why it had to use platform 5. We had to wait for it to arrive and depart. I guess being a terminating service they didn't want us to go first.

Interesting to note that if is got on the previous service, I'd have got in at 19.43 as that service usea platform 3 so didn't have to wait for the Portsmouth Harbour to Waterloo train. The only reason I didn't use that service was the lack of toilets on board.

On that last point, SWR will be removing the need to choose my services based on provision of toilets.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Points failure on Woking junction, which meant that everything from Guildford had to be routed through platform 4, this fault also affected the UMF.

So with everything from Guildford going via platform 4, it created a bottleneck everytime a up Portsmouth service approached Woking, as everything had to go via DMS (platform 5).

 

[pompeyfan]

Points failure on Woking junction, which meant that everything from Guildford had to be routed through platform 4, this fault also affected the UMF.

So with everything from Guildford going via platform 4, it created a bottleneck everytime a up Portsmouth service approached Woking, as everything had to go via DMS (platform 5).

Would it not have been sensible to send every other service via the New line, depending on crew knowledge and location of stoppers etc? Seems ridiculous, but I suppose if the tins are falling onto network rail, there’s no rush.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Exactly. If you can palm off the delay minutes to NR and send them the bill, the jobs a gudun.

 

[Helvellyn]

I don't understand why the 442s are needed in an era where brand new is cheaper than old - the 442s need significant money thrown at them), but I think that the livery/ branding is being treated sensibly.

My hunch is that because they needed a small fleet for the fast Portsmouth services this was the best option. They could have gone new build but this would have equally been an orphan fleet. Plus by the end of the current franchise the twenty year maintenance agreement that Stagecoach signed with Siemens for the 444/450 fleet will have ended. If new build is still a goo option in 2023/2024 (when bidding takes place) you could see proposals to replace 45 444s, 127 450s and 18 442s with a single fleet (possibly with a mix of outer suburban and long distance configurations).

If they didn't need the 442s in service by December 2018 I wonder though whether putting the original 458 fleet back to four cars and running them on the Portsmouth Line would have been just a good an option. (Yes, refurbished with new interiors and a decent First Class).

 

[swt_passenger]

If they didn't need the 442s in service by December 2018 I wonder though whether putting the original 458 fleet back to four cars and running them on the Portsmouth Line would have been just a good an option. (Yes, refurbished with new interiors and a decent First Class).

With hindsight, and possibly since the 442 decision was made there are apparently loads of 350s and/or 360s becoming available, which are probably easier to re-work for DC than full retractioning of 18 x 442s.

Then they'd maintain long distance fleet compatibility with the rest of the Desiros. Traction wise the 450s and 444s can be considered the same thing.

Just need to re-fit any incoming units with 2+2 seating of the same standard as the 444, as I don't believe door position is a show stopper...

 

[HarleyDavidson]

With hindsight, and possibly since the 442 decision was made there are apparently loads of 350s and/or 360s becoming available, which are probably easier to re-work for DC than full retractioning of 18 x 442s.

Then they'd maintain long distance fleet compatibility with the rest of the Desiros. Traction wise the 450s and 444s can be considered the same thing.

Just need to re-fit any incoming units with 2+2 seating of the same standard as the 444, as I don't believe door position is a show stopper...

You seem to forget that the 450's are much derided on the Portsmouth line and I'd have thought that the existing 450's will then be shunted off to Alton/Basingstoke stoppers, plus the Guildford - Ascot line (please!), So the Portsmouth line may well become 442/444 only.

If any 350's that do become available & that might be taken in by SWR to strengthen the existing 450 fleet may only happen if they can be had on reasonable terms, but that's pure speculation on my part.

If they do come then it may speed up the demise of the 458s somewhat quicker, although will they be so keen to replace a 5/10 car with a 4/8 car?

 

[43096]

You seem to forget that the 450's are much derided on the Portsmouth line and I'd have thought that the existing 450's will then be shunted off to Alton/Basingstoke stoppers, plus the Guildford - Ascot line (please!), So the Portsmouth line may well become 442/444 only.

If any 350's that do become available & that might be taken in by SWR to strengthen the existing 450 fleet may only happen if they can be had on reasonable terms, but that's pure speculation on my part.

If they do come then it may speed up the demise of the 458s somewhat quicker, although will they be so keen to replace a 5/10 car with a 4/8 car?

I can't see why they'd need any 350s - and they weren't available when First/MTR bid the franchise so won't feature in the agreed plan with the DfT. There will be plenty of 450s available as the 458s moving to the Reading line frees up something like 22 sets, which move to Ascot-Guildford (5 sets) and mainline strengthening.

As for the Portsmouth direct, I think the plan is for the half-hourly fasts to be 442, with the opposite quarter-hours being 450s.

 

[The Ham]

My hunch is that because they needed a small fleet for the fast Portsmouth services this was the best option. They could have gone new build but this would have equally been an orphan fleet. Plus by the end of the current franchise the twenty year maintenance agreement that Stagecoach signed with Siemens for the 444/450 fleet will have ended. If new build is still a goo option in 2023/2024 (when bidding takes place) you could see proposals to replace 45 444s, 127 450s and 18 442s with a single fleet (possibly with a mix of outer suburban and long distance configurations).

If they didn't need the 442s in service by December 2018 I wonder though whether putting the original 458 fleet back to four cars and running them on the Portsmouth Line would have been just a good an option. (Yes, refurbished with new interiors and a decent First Class).

The other possibility is that they replace the 158's, 159's, 442's, 444's and 450's with a universal fleet (with some Bimodal units, akin to the 80x fleets if they had pure EMU's as part of them - note that is comparing the makeup of the fleets, not suggesting 80x's as a suitable option).

 

[3141]

The other possibility is that they replace the 158's, 159's, 442's, 444's and 450's with a universal fleet (with some Bimodal units, akin to the 80x fleets if they had pure EMU's as part of them - note that is comparing the makeup of the fleets, not suggesting 80x's as a suitable option).

On the other hand, think back seven years to 2010. Who would have believed that by 2017 decisions would have been taken to leave GWML electrification incomplete, that MML and Transpennine electrification would have been on the agenda and then largely or partly abandoned, that modern trains like some 350s, 360s and 379s would face an uncertain future, that stock recently refurbished/modernised (455 and 458) or being refurbished (321) could soon be scrapped, plus further uncertainties about 323s....? So ideas about what might happen in 2024 by which time we'll probably have left the EU, and may have a Labour government, may make sense in today's context, but life could actually be entirely different.

 

[swt_passenger]

You seem to forget that the 450's are much derided on the Portsmouth line and I'd have thought that the existing 450's will then be shunted off to Alton/Basingstoke stoppers, plus the Guildford - Ascot line (please!), So the Portsmouth line may well become 442/444 only.

It was the 2+3 seating they were mainly against. The "no450" campaigners said at one stage they'd be happy with SN style Electrostars - until someone pointed out that many of them had 2+3 seating as well...

As has been discussed regularly since the decision was announced, I suspect the service will still include a fair number of 450s as well. At the end of the day there are just far too many 450s for them to be kept to certain so-called suitable routes (such as Alton and Basingstoke stoppers etc.). Some will surely have to appear on at least Southampton and Portsmouth slow runs.

 

[Harbouring]

deleted. Just rehashing what other people said.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

deleted.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Lymmy flyer should revert back to a 450 everyday surely?

 

[infobleep]

Points failure on Woking junction, which meant that everything from Guildford had to be routed through platform 4, this fault also affected the UMF.

So with everything from Guildford going via platform 4, it created a bottleneck everytime a up Portsmouth service approached Woking, as everything had to go via DMS (platform 5).

Thanks for that. Must have been fairly recent fault when I encountered it.

Incidentally, another highly exciting, cough, news story from Get Surrey.

Alas they don't state how delayed the commuter was each evening but clearly more than normal, given the comments.

With regards to the ticket vending machines at Woking. Surely passengers could board the train after a certain amount of time had passed and by at their destination or at the earliest opportunity to pay. Obviously they would have to train in the queue for a certain amount of time before they could do that.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/commuter-brands-south-western-railway-13658199

Commuter brands South Western Railway 'appalling' after catching just one punctual train home in a month

The train operator said "infrastructure failures" since the completion of the Waterloo upgrade works had caused the delays

By CHRISTOPHER MCKEON

A disgruntled commuter from Kingston has claimed just one of her trains home has been on time since*South Western Railway(SWR) took over.

Suzanne Gilmour, who works in London, described the service as "appalling" after experiencing weeks of delays since the franchise handover in August.

She said: "We've gone from South West Trains, which generally operated on time, to something which is delayed every single evening.

"I want to know why they're late when it's the same rolling stock, the same staff, the same signalling system."


Ms Gilmour also criticised SWR for poor customer service, saying the company had yet to explain to her why the sudden drop-off in punctuality had occurred.

She said: "I kept emailing them, and they just send me a generic response telling me I can claim back money."

An SWR spokesman said: "We apologise for the late running of some of our trains recently.

"Unfortunately, since the completion of the*Waterloo works*, there have been some railway infrastructure failures in and around*Waterloo station*, coupled with a small number of train issues, leading to some delays and cancellations.

"We are contacting our customer again to get more details about her late trains so we can fully investigate and respond regarding the matter."

SWR has also been criticised by commuters in*Woking*over the*regular malfunctioningof the ticket machines there.

Passengers were forced to queue*out of the door and into the station car park*for half an hour before they could buy tickets*for several days last week.

What's your experience of SWR been like so far? Let us know in the comments section below or via*Facebook*or*Twitter.

 

[infobleep]

Would it not have been sensible to send every other service via the New line, depending on crew knowledge and location of stoppers etc? Seems ridiculous, but I suppose if the tins are falling onto network rail, there’s no rush.

Exactly. If you can palm off the delay minutes to NR and send them the bill, the jobs a gudun.

It has to have been a recent fault when I encountered it as nothing on South Western Railway Journey Check about it. Not that, that is a good guide at times.

Sometimes they report up to 10 minutes of delays and other times, with the same amount of up to 10 minutes of delays, for a similar amount of trains, from my perception at least, they report nothing.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Thanks for that. Must have been fairly recent fault when I encountered it.

Incidentally, another highly exciting, cough, news story from Get Surrey.

Alas they don't state how delayed the commuter was each evening but clearly more than normal, given the comments.

With regards to the ticket vending machines at Woking. Surely passengers could board the train after a certain amount of time had passed and by at their destination or at the earliest opportunity to pay. Obviously they would have to train in the queue for a certain amount of time before they could do that.

http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey-news/commuter-brands-south-western-railway-13658199

You don't believe the dross that they produce do you? It's one of the worst and badly written local newspapers going, full of errors and discrepancies than anything else going.

They seem to have had an agenda against SWR from the start. Really pathetic reporting standards and to be quite blunt a paper written by amateurs.

 

[43096]

Lymmy flyer should revert back to a 450 everyday surely?

Yes, that is the plan.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, that is the plan.

Problem is it has been the plan on a couple of previous occasions already, but something has always delayed it at the last minute...

Meanwhile, I saw one of the 'general purpose' displays at Eastleigh advertising that there will be a significant timetable change from October the 8th.

What's that all about then, just leaf-fall or something more?

 

[HeelBurton]

Problem is it has been the plan on a couple of previous occasions already, but something has always delayed it at the last minute...



Meanwhile, I saw one of the 'general purpose' displays at Eastleigh advertising that there will be a significant timetable change from October the 8th.



What's that all about then, just leaf-fall or something more?

Leaf fall. Nothing more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[30909]

Problem is it has been the plan on a couple of previous occasions already, but something has always delayed it at the last minute...

Meanwhile, I saw one of the 'general purpose' displays at Eastleigh advertising that there will be a significant timetable change from October the 8th.

What's that all about then, just leaf-fall or something more?

Looking at their website and timetables it's leaf fall, always interests me that on the Portsmouth Direct leaf fall only effects the up line and not the down - certainly timetable wise - clever trees

 

[swt_passenger]

Leaf fall. Nothing more.

Bit of an exaggerated message then, might have been easier to just draw attention to the existing info in the printed timetables.

 

[MartinB1]

You don't believe the dross that they produce do you? It's one of the worst and badly written local newspapers going, full of errors and discrepancies than anything else going.

They seem to have had an agenda against SWR from the start. Really pathetic reporting standards and to be quite blunt a paper written by amateurs.

Which part of the article do you disagree with exactly,!? The service has been awful for weeks now .

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Which part of the article do you disagree with exactly,!? The service has been awful for weeks now .

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Most of the problems have been down to NR with signal/TC failures/points failures/COAs/ESRs/TSRs, other TOCs/FOCs.

There has also been a considerable number of trespass incidents as well.

So if you get any of the first 6, you get delays and of course if it goes in late, it comes out late and it gets later & later and later, unless of course you start omitting stops and don't forget to factor in PNBs & cab breaks too and you get an unmitigated shambles.

 

[Feathers44]

No problems with one of my occasional work trips down to Hook today except for the usual odd timings from Clapham (not really a problem, just an inconvenience).

The only oddity was that we ran through Woking on the up slow on the way back while the fast platform was empty. We were straight back on the fast again afterwards.

 

[bb21]

Looking at their website and timetables it's leaf fall, always interests me that on the Portsmouth Direct leaf fall only effects the up line and not the down - certainly timetable wise - clever trees

Maximum journey times may prevent the addition of minutes to some journeys.

Just a possibility.