New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

[ooo]

personally think the name change was silly... If the TM was Dft owned, they should've changed the livery with time, but kept logo / name the same...

A new name makes it clear that it's different

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[agwuk1993]

It's a shame they never went down the GWR route though. Just a Navy blue, with silver SWR logo.

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[whhistle]

I'm surprised with First's ownership, they haven't made a few more livery changes by now.
Plus, I would have thought the time between the announcement and the takeover, they would have completely refitted a train with new seat covers, posters, CIS... disappointing to see none of that has happened.

Red seats and that livery doesn't look good.

 

[MartinB1]

I'm surprised with First's ownership, they haven't made a few more livery changes by now.
Plus, I would have thought the time between the announcement and the takeover, they would have completely refitted a train with new seat covers, posters, CIS... disappointing to see none of that has happened.

Red seats and that livery doesn't look good.

I agree, it looks like it is going to be a very slow process. It's the same with staff uniforms, we've been told it's going to take up to 18 months before frontline staff have been issued with them. We will be half way through the 7 year franchise by the time staff and trains have been fully 'liveried' up.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[MartinB1]

It's a shame they never went down the GWR route though. Just a Navy blue, with silver SWR logo.

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

The logo I think is very clever, but it is a shame they didn't opt for a more traditional colour scheme like the GWR.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[swt_passenger]

I agree, it looks like it is going to be a very slow process. It's the same with staff uniforms, we've been told it's going to take up to 18 months before frontline staff have been issued with them.

This is a similar timescale to a few other other franchise changes, I don't think it has ever been instant.

 

[tbtc]

I agree, it looks like it is going to be a very slow process. It's the same with staff uniforms, we've been told it's going to take up to 18 months before frontline staff have been issued with them. We will be half way through the 7 year franchise by the time staff and trains have been fully 'liveried' up

This is a similar timescale to a few other other franchise changes, I don't think it has ever been instant.

It seems to be a pattern...

...before a franchise starts, people complain about all the money being wasted on repainting things into the new colour scheme...

...once a franchise starts, people complain about everything not being transformed immediately.

Just like some of the people saying "wouldn't it be nice if we went back to simpler liveries like the BR blue and grey and didn't have corporate branding" are now complaining that the SWR livery is too boring.

First/ MTR seem to be taking a sensible approach, walking before they run. There'd be outrage if they were focussing too much attention on rebranding everything when they should have been wholly attending to Waterloo, they have a simple/ clear brand, they seem to be carefully replacing and updating things at appropriate times (e.g. SWT staff uniforms are still functional).

I don't agree with some aspects of the franchise (I don't understand why the 442s are needed in an era where brand new is cheaper than old - the 442s need significant money thrown at them), but I think that the livery/ branding is being treated sensibly.

(not intended as a dig at MartinB1 btw - I'm just quoting you as a factual example regarding how slow things will be)

 

[MartinB1]

It seems to be a pattern...

...before a franchise starts, people complain about all the money being wasted on repainting things into the new colour scheme...

...once a franchise starts, people complain about everything not being transformed immediately.

Just like some of the people saying "wouldn't it be nice if we went back to simpler liveries like the BR blue and grey and didn't have corporate branding" are now complaining that the SWR livery is too boring.

First/ MTR seem to be taking a sensible approach, walking before they run. There'd be outrage if they were focussing too much attention on rebranding everything when they should have been wholly attending to Waterloo, they have a simple/ clear brand, they seem to be carefully replacing and updating things at appropriate times (e.g. SWT staff uniforms are still functional).

I don't agree with some aspects of the franchise (I don't understand why the 442s are needed in an era where brand new is cheaper than old - the 442s need significant money thrown at them), but I think that the livery/ branding is being treated sensibly.

(not intended as a dig at MartinB1 btw - I'm just quoting you as a factual example regarding how slow things will be)

I'm not taking it as a dig, this forum exists to chew the fat over topics such as this . I personally don't think quicker branding would be a waste of money. At the moment I'm wearing a uniform that doesn't represent the company I currently work for. Surely they want their staff to be proud of who they work for, and a decent uniform in my opinion is part of that. Haphazard, mixed liveries also I feel will effect passengers perception of the train company they travel with. Mixed liveries, old staff uniforms just adds to a feeling of chaos and incompetence (however unjustified) to the problematic service that is currently being provided . As an employee it very much feels like a transitionary period, and one in which the end is still a very long way off.

I'm not having a go at my new employers, many of their plans I'm very excited about. It just feels like it's going to take a long time to get there, and by the time it does we will almost be at the point where we are already looking ahead to what will happen with the next franchise (or public ownership if Corbyn gets in).

Oh, and I agree with what you say about the 442's. Why not just have a larger order for the Aventras instead? They obviously have their reasons, which as a Driver is way above my pay grade!

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

 

[adamello]

The logo I think is very clever, but it is a shame they didn't opt for a more traditional colour scheme like the GWR.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Again let's not forget it's not 100% first group.. im sure MTR would want the project they invested money in to be notably different to ones that they haven't

 

[bb21]

I'm surprised with First's ownership, they haven't made a few more livery changes by now.
Plus, I would have thought the time between the announcement and the takeover, they would have completely refitted a train with new seat covers, posters, CIS... disappointing to see none of that has happened.

Red seats and that livery doesn't look good.

I think First have a few much more important things on their minds atm.

I'm not joking either in case anyone is wondering. Repainting the trains (or revinylling, etc) is not really a massive priority right now, but they are probably progressing naturally.

 

[samuelmorris]

I used SWT intermittently over the past 4 years and held it in fairly high regard, certainly compared to questionable punctuality on Southern and questionable cleanliness on Southeastern. I don't remember having many major issues which weren't entirely unavoidable (e.g. a tree falling on the line at Brookwood which still only held me up for 20 minutes or so). For the few weeks leading up to the engineering blockade however (before it started, and of course still with Stagecoach) punctuality was quite poor and somewhat problematic. Post-works I gather things are worse still though of course, the majority of this is in Network Rail's court.

Problem is, the new TOC don't really seem geared up to be able to deal with it. Granted, they probably didn't expect the disruption to be this severe and I'm not expecting changes about how the railway actually runs to happen on a short timescale, but, a couple of hours before the 10 working days deadline was up I had a response to my delay repay claim earlier this month, telling me to call customer services - no option to discuss in further detail digitally.
After waiting on the phone to an 0345 number (not expensive, but I still maintain call centres known for high queues should be using freephone) for 26 minutes listening to an incorrectly-configured phone system, I was put through to a guy that had no idea how to handle delay repay claims. I notice the auto-attendant on the phone makes no mention of delay repay at all despite the fact it must be one of the most common reasons to speak to customer service of a TOC. Burying customer service 4 levels deep in the auto-attendant each time, with a 'for customer services' option at each stage is also deeply frustrating.

In any case, after conferring with a colleague several times, he finally asked me to email their "no reply" address to send them a screenshot of my credit card statement. There is, as you might expect, no automatic reply configured for their 'noreply@' address, so who knows whether this has actually gone to someone or not. If they hadn't set the double whammy of TVMs no longer printing receipts and ticket barriers withholding single tickets, this wouldn't be an issue. No idea what people are supposed to do if they paid in cash! They clearly haven't thought any of this process through from a passenger's perspective and judging by the half-hour wait and getting a clueless (even if friendly) operative on the phone, are quite drastically understaffed in the CS department, possibly even using temps, who knows.
This isn't two or three days into the franchise, they've had it for a full month now, and it still seems like a bloody shambles.
For all the complaints about the lines I use on a regular basis, I don't often need to use delay repay at all as delays are usually under the 30 minute DfT target (for better or for worse) and on all but one occasion in the past year or two the process has worked online seamlessly either without the need to speak to anyone, or certainly without the need to manually reach out for assistance and wait in a phone queue.

I sincerely hope things improve, both for general performance but also how the other half of the business operates. I try and avoid becoming the all too common irate commuter that flies off the handle after the smallest issue but this experience has definitely left a sour taste of the new operator.

 

[bb21]

Delay Repay did not kick in until 4th September, so your claim would (or, rather, should) have been processed under the old Charter scheme.

It is a bit disappointing that the operator had no idea about it though.

Edit: Actually, I may have misunderstood. Depends on what you mean by "earlier this month" what you would have been entitled to.

 

[samuelmorris]

Claim was submitted on the 5th, for a journey made on the 5th, so no excuses that I can see - it was also for a delay exceeding 60 minutes, which should be covered even under the old scheme as far as I'm aware.

 

[cjmillsnun]

Originally it was a Stagecoach branch and they sold it to the Dft. So yes technically First Group can use it but it does not make business sense as SWT is associated with Stagecoach and they still use the same theme with EMT.

You could argue the name 'South West Trains' is a fairly neutral name but the brand (colours And logo) are not so I can see why First Grouo have opted to change.

SWT was always a DfT/DETR/DoT brand. In the shadow running prior to being let, the BR cost centre was called South West Trains. Stagecoach decided to keep it.

Posters were branded SWT from 1993

 

[bb21]

Claim was submitted on the 5th, for a journey made on the 5th, so no excuses that I can see - it was also for a delay exceeding 60 minutes, which should be covered even under the old scheme as far as I'm aware.

It's fine. It was the "10 working days" bit that threw me initially, as counting back 10 working days today would land us on exactly 5th.

 

[43096]

In any case, after conferring with a colleague several times, he finally asked me to email their "no reply" address to send them a screenshot of my credit card statement. There is, as you might expect, no automatic reply configured for their 'noreply@' address, so who knows whether this has actually gone to someone or not. If they hadn't set the double whammy of TVMs no longer printing receipts and ticket barriers withholding single tickets, this wouldn't be an issue. No idea what people are supposed to do if they paid in cash!

I usually take a photo of the ticket on my phone before getting to the barrier if it is a delay repay case. Likewise if I need the ticket for work travel expenses claims.

 

[Skimble19]

I agree, it looks like it is going to be a very slow process. It's the same with staff uniforms, we've been told it's going to take up to 18 months before frontline staff have been issued with them. We will be half way through the 7 year franchise by the time staff and trains have been fully 'liveried' up.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

That's what happens when Group branding isn't used... if it had been branded First South Western and standard First Group uniform used it could have probably been ready for franchise launch or not long after (fairly certain it was for FCC, can't remember for sure but don't think it was long if not!) as until recently all First franchises had the same uniform, although that has now changed. Seeing as SWR has its own brand a separate uniform now needs to be created....

 

[adamello]

That's what happens when Group branding isn't used... if it had been branded First South Western and standard First Group uniform used it could have probably been ready for franchise launch or not long after (fairly certain it was for FCC, can't remember for sure but don't think it was long if not!) as until recently all First franchises had the same uniform, although that has now changed. Seeing as SWR has its own brand a separate uniform now needs to be created....

its not just First though!

 

[abn444]

its not just First though!

Neither was First TransPennine Express but they still used FirstGroup branding on that. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing that they've moved away from First branding but I don't think it being part MTR would have stopped them using First branding had they still being using it on their rail franchises.

 

[spark001uk]

SWR are getting huge amounts of grief on twitter since the works, it's been almost like a day hasn't passed without issue at or near Waterloo. Though as someone mentioned a few posts ago, most of the blame does lie at NR's door, but passengers don't seem to know that.

 

[Goldfish62]

SWR are getting huge amounts of grief on twitter since the works, it's been almost like a day hasn't passed without issue at or near Waterloo. Though as someone mentioned a few posts ago, most of the blame does lie at NR's door, but passengers don't seem to know that.

TBH I've noticed little difference from the months and weeks leading up to the works and passengers have naively thought it was going to immediately improve.

 

[Searle]

SWR are getting huge amounts of grief on twitter since the works, it's been almost like a day hasn't passed without issue at or near Waterloo. Though as someone mentioned a few posts ago, most of the blame does lie at NR's door, but passengers don't seem to know that.

And there's another signalling problem at Waterloo this morning. It's getting seriously tiring to commute with SWT now.

 

[Hadders]

The Silverlink brand belonged to National Express, they weren't prepared to let the new operator use the name hence the removal/covering up of anything Silverlink before London Overground took over.

The South West Trains brand name actually belongs to the DfT - they won't have an objection to the new operator using the brand if they wish to do so. Saves Stagecoach having to de-brand as well.

 

[embers25]

TBH I've noticed little difference from the months and weeks leading up to the works and passengers have naively thought it was going to immediately improve.

It has been infinitely worse this month than pre-August but not really due to SWR. Every day without exception in September has had issues.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Most of which are down to NR infrastructure problems.

 

[theironroad]

Most of which are down to NR infrastructure problems.

It was a stupid idea of the dft to allow the franchise to change hands mid works.

Unfortunately for first/MTR , even though it is not their fault, this first month of the new franchise will end up being like the first months of south West trains when Stagecoach decide to get rid of drivers. Not exactly the same, but in terms of travelling public perception they'll remember the days of disruption.

 

[swt_passenger]

It was a stupid idea of the dft to allow the franchise to change hands mid works.

How do you define 'the works' though? Just about every weekend remaining until Christmas will have a reduced service into Waterloo, does that mean the handover should have been postponed for 4 months?

What about all the planned engineering works and random faults that will occur next year. If we have to wait for some eventual quiet period to show up it could be 2035 or so...

 

[Joe Paxton]

The Silverlink brand belonged to National Express, they weren't prepared to let the new operator use the name hence the removal/covering up of anything Silverlink before London Overground took over.

Er, Silverlink Metro was a pretty toxic brand... I think TfL wanted to start making a good impression with London Overground pronto, and by and large they did.

 

[bb21]

TBH I've noticed little difference from the months and weeks leading up to the works and passengers have naively thought it was going to immediately improve.

It has been infinitely worse this month than pre-August but not really due to SWR. Every day without exception in September has had issues.

It has been much much worse this period.

Just wait for the performance figures to come out on Sunday. You can then compare that with last period.

It was a stupid idea of the dft to allow the franchise to change hands mid works.

Stupid - true, but it would most likely have made no difference on that front whatsoever.

Stagecoach dodged a bullet there I think.

 

[AlexNL]

SWR are getting huge amounts of grief on twitter since the works, it's been almost like a day hasn't passed without issue at or near Waterloo. Though as someone mentioned a few posts ago, most of the blame does lie at NR's door, but passengers don't seem to know that.

It's more likely that they simply don't care. Passengers will also complain to SWR if something goes wrong with Porterbrook's trains.

Passengers pay SWR to bring them from A to B, they're not dealing with their suppliers. It's up to SWR to make sure their suppliers deliver what they need to provide a service.