Incorrect Station Announcement - Boarded Wrong Train

[tomsy47]

A quick Google search shows that Virgin's Mark 4 coaches don't appear to have any TOC branding on them. If the train was at the platform and the incorrect announcement was made over the PA, it wouldn't be obvious that it was the wrong train.

 

[shredder1]

Then you would probably not be getting to your destination...

Fascinating :roll:

 

[gray1404]

I would not have paid up either. I am quite surprised that so many people on board gave over that amount of money so easily. Poor show on the guard concerned, it would have been most clear to him that something was wrong.

 

[Sprinter153]

I would not have paid up either. I am quite surprised that so many people on board gave over that amount of money so easily. Poor show on the guard concerned, it would have been most clear to him that something was wrong.

To play devil's advocate, if I had a pound for every time someone travelling on an Advance on the wrong train claimed to do so because of alleged wrong (often misheard) announcements / the 'man on the platform' told them to / it's someone else's fault, I would be on a beach in sunkissed Waikiki, not umpiring amateur drunk wrestling on the 2330 to Cardiff for a living.

I suppose the difference is I'm more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt where appropriate, because sometimes it's just good to be nice to people. Some people are less lenient.

My point is you come across that many chancers with the same excuses that it's really easy to become cynical.

Also, if you do the job, you'll understand that a large number of people actually can be wrong. When I used to work the 2334 Reading-Gatwick on a Friday or Saturday I would announce at least 5 times prior to departure, and get the platform staff to announce that the train doesn't call at Wokingham (it does Monday-Thursday), but would invariably get at least 10 people getting incredibly angry that 'nobody told them'. I'm not even talking about the inevitable drunks.

As I say, its easy to be cynical, and once you've charged one person in a situation, a lot of people will (being human) carry on to save face.

Just trying to balance this with the 'crucify and give the guard 40 lashes for making an error of judgement' point of view.

 

[6Gman]

To play devil's advocate, if I had a pound for every time someone travelling on an Advance on the wrong train claimed to do so because of alleged wrong (often misheard) announcements / the 'man on the platform' told them to / it's someone else's fault, I would be on a beach in sunkissed Waikiki, not umpiring amateur drunk wrestling on the 2330 to Cardiff for a living.

I suppose the difference is I'm more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt where appropriate, because sometimes it's just good to be nice to people. Some people are less lenient.

My point is you come across that many chancers with the same excuses that it's really easy to become cynical.

Also, if you do the job, you'll understand that a large number of people actually can be wrong. When I used to work the 2334 Reading-Gatwick on a Friday or Saturday I would announce at least 5 times prior to departure, and get the platform staff to announce that the train doesn't call at Wokingham (it does Monday-Thursday), but would invariably get at least 10 people getting incredibly angry that 'nobody told them'. I'm not even talking about the inevitable drunks.

As I say, its easy to be cynical, and once you've charged one person in a situation, a lot of people will (being human) carry on to save face.

Just trying to balance this with the 'crucify and give the guard 40 lashes for making an error of judgement' point of view.

A very good post.

I especially enjoyed the highlighted part!

 

[najaB]

As I say, its easy to be cynical, and once you've charged one person in a situation, a lot of people will (being human) carry on to save face.

I also suspect this is the case here.

 

[gray1404]

To play devil's advocate, if I had a pound for every time someone travelling on an Advance on the wrong train claimed to do so because of alleged wrong (often misheard) announcements / the 'man on the platform' told them to / it's someone else's fault, I would be on a beach in sunkissed Waikiki, not umpiring amateur drunk wrestling on the 2330 to Cardiff for a living.

I suppose the difference is I'm more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt where appropriate, because sometimes it's just good to be nice to people. Some people are less lenient.

My point is you come across that many chancers with the same excuses that it's really easy to become cynical.

Also, if you do the job, you'll understand that a large number of people actually can be wrong. When I used to work the 2334 Reading-Gatwick on a Friday or Saturday I would announce at least 5 times prior to departure, and get the platform staff to announce that the train doesn't call at Wokingham (it does Monday-Thursday), but would invariably get at least 10 people getting incredibly angry that 'nobody told them'. I'm not even talking about the inevitable drunks.

As I say, its easy to be cynical, and once you've charged one person in a situation, a lot of people will (being human) carry on to save face.

Just trying to balance this with the 'crucify and give the guard 40 lashes for making an error of judgement' point of view.

I cannot argue with anything in your post. It is very reasonable and balanced and I see exactly where you are coming from. Thumbs up! Even from a passengers perspective I have seen many people on many different occasions get on the wrong train with an advance ticket for reasons such as those you state. It gives the guards additional work and it is not fair on those of us who use the tickets correctly.

When I was recently delayed on a London Midland service, missed my connection and had to catch the next train, the guard was quick to say "you are on the wrong train. Your ticket is not valid." (Note this is very rare for a LM guard to be like that!). When I explained the reason it was accepted. However, what was disappointing is that the worst was assumed by default and before I had chance to explain the railway's error.

I think in this case the guard should have taken note on the basis of the amount of passengers it effected, that is a massive clue something is wrong. The correct, professional and gentlemanly thing would then to be have been to applogise to the customers concerned and issue a refund of any incorrectly sold ticket on the spot.

I have always found that when dealing with the public in the customer facing role it is best to give them the benefit of the doubt, look into things to establish the facts and go from there. When I have made mistakes I have always made sure I applogise in a sincere way to the customer. I have always found this is accepted and it actually commands a lot of respect back and it soon smooths over many misunderstandings and any possible action/complaints from up line at a later date.

I do not think it is fair the guard concerned gets to keep any commission from these incorrect ticket sales. But either way he has now landed himself in a position whereby customer service will have to respond to all those who complain, an investigation will need to be made by the station manager at Darlington thus now his colleague could get into trouble, the guard himself will be interviewed by his manager and could be subject to action. The finance department will need to refund those who were incorrectly charged. Not to mention the damage this has done to the brand and the needless distress it has caused many innocent passengers. All of this could have been avoided.

 

[AY1975]

If you're in-the-know you might notice if the train is in a different train operator's livery from the one you were booked to use.

Obviously, though, an ordinary lay passenger (as opposed to an enthusiast or a railway industry professional) might not necessarily notice that, especially if they don't travel by train very often (or don't travel on that route very often).

Then again, it does occasionally happen that company A's train gets hired to company B.

If a train conductor notices that his/her train has been wrongly announced, s/he should make an announcement over the train's tannoy to the effect that the station announcement is wrong, and this is the 10.03 Virgin East Coast train, NOT the 9.58 CrossCountry (or whatever). I have known them to do that.

 

[najaB]

I am quite surprised that so many people on board gave over that amount of money so easily.

The thing is, regardless of why it happened the OP was on a train without a valid ticket. In that situation, and assuming you can afford to be out of pocket for a while, it makes sense to pay and reclaim. Refusing to pay may well result in a conversation with BTP and/or letters back and forth with the TOC's prosecution department.

 

[shredder1]

I would not have paid up either. I am quite surprised that so many people on board gave over that amount of money so easily. Poor show on the guard concerned, it would have been most clear to him that something was wrong.

For me, I wouldnt be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning, knowing that I`d allowed someone to blatantly rip me off, at times you have to stand up for whats right and I`m sure we all know the difference between right and wrong, others it seems would prefer to dodge the bullets and hand over their hard earned cash. I do wish I was more like that, makes life a lot less hassle :roll:.

 

[najaB]

For me, I wouldnt be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning, knowing that I`d allowed someone to blatantly rip me off...

In this case the VTEC guard wasn't ripping anybody off, the OP didn't have a valid ticket for the train they were on.

...at times you have to stand up for whats right and I`m sure we all know the difference between right and wrong...

So, hopefully, you can see that the mistake and blame (if any is to be apportioned) should sit with XC (for cancelling their train) and the station announcer if they made a mistaken announcement.

...others it seems would prefer to dodge the bullets and hand over their hard earned cash. I do wish I was more like that, makes life a lot less hassle :roll:.

If temporarily parting with disposable cash means that you avoid a lot of unnecessary hassle then I'd say it's worth it. Of course, the story is completely different if paying for the unneeded ticket means that you won't be able to do something important (e.g. eat).

 

[shredder1]

In this case the VTEC guard wasn't ripping anybody off, the OP didn't have a valid ticket for the train they were on.
So, hopefully, you can see that the mistake and blame (if any is to be apportioned) should sit with XC (for cancelling their train) and the station announcer if they made a mistaken announcement.
If temporarily parting with disposable cash means that you avoid a lot of unnecessary hassle then I'd say it's worth it. Of course, the story is completely different if paying for the unneeded ticket means that you won't be able to do something important (e.g. eat).

I can only repeat my post, sorry mate, but rightly or wrongly thats how I tick!
To reiterate, "I do wish I was more like that, makes life a lot less hassle" .

 

[Mojo]

Indeed. A refund from customer services is just a cheque sent out. There's no lengthy process of cancelling the ticket or debiting the guard's commission figures.

Can you imagine what would happen if guards' payslips started being changed thanks to customer services staff at HQ deciding they had wrongly sold the ticket?

Maybe perhaps the commission should only be paid, say, two paydays after the tickets were sold?

 

[sheff1]

Then you would probably not be getting to your destination...

Really ?

 

[sheff1]

The thing is, regardless of why it happened the OP was on a train without a valid ticket. In that situation, and assuming you can afford to be out of pocket for a while, it makes sense to pay and reclaim. Refusing to pay may well result in a conversation with BTP and/or letters back and forth with the TOC's prosecution department.

Paying and trying to reclaim is likely to require to and fro with Customer Relations and might not be successful, leaving one out of pocket.

I would much rather have a conversation with BTP. Strangely, though, on the couple of occasions when guards have said they will call BTP to me, when we arrived at the destination BTP were conspicuous by their absence (slightly different circumstances in that my tickets were 100% valid but the clueless guards insisted they were not and tried, unsuccessfully, to extract more money from me. In the circs described by the OP, though, I would still go for a 'BTP conversation')

 

[najaB]

(slightly different circumstances in that my tickets were 100% valid but the clueless guards insisted they were not and tried, unsuccessfully, to extract more money from me. In the circs described by the OP, though, I would still go for a 'BTP conversation')

As you note, in this case the OP didn't have a valid ticket.

 

[sheff1]

As you note, in this case the OP didn't have a valid ticket.

And as I said, in the circumstances described (incorrect announcements resulted in boarding the wrong train), I would not pay and would go for the 'BTP conversation' you mentioned which may, or may not, actually happen.

 

[najaB]

And as I said, in the circumstances described (incorrect announcements resulted in boarding the wrong train), I would not pay and would go for the 'BTP conversation' you mentioned which may, or may not, actually happen.

The other half of the 'and/or' may still happen, even if BTP aren't called. It's all about appetite for risk and value of money v time I suppose.

 

[shredder1]

The other half of the 'and/or' may still happen, even if BTP aren't called. It's all about appetite for risk and value of money v time I suppose.

Nothing to do with appitite for risk, some of us just can`t back down when we know something is wrong, pride I suppose, but people have given their lives for pride, logically its far better to run away and fight another day, trouble with me is I`m a lousy runner .

 

[Fiyero]

just to add the Saturday before last I saw a Virgin Trains branded train at Southampton Parkway when Virgin don't operate down here, I can only assume it was running a Cross Country service. If they can run different trains, and most passengers think they are all the same anyway, what can an average customer do to avoid getting the wrong train like this?

 

[AlterEgo]

just to add the Saturday before last I saw a Virgin Trains branded train at Southampton Parkway when Virgin don't operate down here, I can only assume it was running a Cross Country service.

Do VTWC have any sets on hire to XC?

 

[najaB]

If they can run different trains, and most passengers think they are all the same anyway, what can an average customer do to avoid getting the wrong train like this?

Read station monitors and listen carefully to announcements. It's rare (but by no means impossible) for both to be incorrect.

 

[najaB]

Do VTWC have any sets on hire to XC?

I presume that it was VTEC rather than VTWC.

 

[Hadders]

I presume that it was VTEC rather than VTWC.

Likely to have been a VTWC Voyager on hire to XC, I'd have thought.

 

[najaB]

Likely to have been a VTWC Voyager on hire to XC, I'd have thought.

I was thinking VTEC HST powercars, but didn't pay attention to the location. A Voyager is much more likely in Sou'hampton.

 

[bb21]

Do VTWC have any sets on hire to XC?

Yes, 221108 and 221109 during the bank holiday weekend due to increased passenger loading.

There was a thread about it somewhere.

 

[Signal Head]

For me, I wouldnt be able to look at myself in the mirror in the morning, knowing that I`d allowed someone to blatantly rip me off, at times you have to stand up for whats right and I`m sure we all know the difference between right and wrong, others it seems would prefer to dodge the bullets and hand over their hard earned cash. I do wish I was more like that, makes life a lot less hassle :roll:.

Several years ago I was overcharged by the driver of a replacement bus (tram replacement). I knew I was right, but his argument was that because he was working out of his normal area the fare was more than the normal tram ticket (Arriva bus replacing Metrolink).

I argued back that that had nothing to do with the fare, but he wasn't shifting. In the end I paid (put the right change back in pocket and fished out a £20 note in front of him).

I've regretted it ever since. What I should have done was sit on the bus, having had the correct fare refused, and wait for him to either give up and set off, or call the police. By the time they arrived customer services phone line would have been open and would have explained to the driver that he was an idiot (which was the response I got when I rang them later, along with a free ticket).

If the railway makes a mistake, the railway bears the cost, and I wouldn't trust the suggestion of paying and claiming a refund either, once they've got your money in those circumstances they'll be very reluctant to give it back, without proof that it would be impossible for an individual to provide days or weeks after the event.

At least if you challenge it on the train, and there's a group of unrelated people all claiming the same thing, there's a good chance the BTP will realise that something has gone wrong on the railway's side.

 

[najaB]

At least if you challenge it on the train, and there's a group of unrelated people all claiming the same thing, there's a good chance the BTP will realise that something has gone wrong on the railway's side.

The problem is that, regardless if how it came to be, the OP was on a train without a valid ticket.

 

[Gareth Marston]

An inevitable consequence of a world where you have seperate operators and train specific tickets on the same route. Conductors must tear their hair out between York and Newcastle with three to can specific fares en route.

 

[plymothian]

An inevitable consequence of a world where you have seperate operators and train specific tickets on the same route.

It's called competition, the whole reason for privatisation!