Incorrect Station Announcement - Boarded Wrong Train

[shredder1]

The problem is that, regardless if how it came to be, the OP was on a train without a valid ticket.

The OP was told his ticket was valid according by the announcement and in good faith boarded the train he was told was his, in fairness the general public tend to believe what station staff tell them, and why should they doubt it. Its different for us cranks, we tend to be more knowledgeable, but even we get it wrong at times. The validity of a ticket is surely dependant on what staff tell you.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's called competition, the whole reason for privatisation!

It's an utter nonsense when rail has an infinitessimally small share of the overall travel market in the UK. Any public transport operator has far more to gain by trying to break into the car travel market.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The OP was told his ticket was valid according by the announcement and in good faith boarded the train he was told was his, in fairness the general public tend to believe what station staff tell them, and why should they doubt it. Its different for us cranks, we tend to be more knowledgeable, but even we get it wrong at times. The validity of a ticket is surely dependant on what staff tell you.

If a member of staff with authority to do so tells you you can board a train, that may not be a valid ticket but it is "other authority to travel".

Arguably it is not on the customer to work out whether a specific member of staff had that authority or not (which is why I believe it should be given only in writing using a dedicated pad).

 

[shredder1]

Several years ago I was overcharged by the driver of a replacement bus (tram replacement). I knew I was right, but his argument was that because he was working out of his normal area the fare was more than the normal tram ticket (Arriva bus replacing Metrolink).

I argued back that that had nothing to do with the fare, but he wasn't shifting. In the end I paid (put the right change back in pocket and fished out a £20 note in front of him).

I've regretted it ever since. What I should have done was sit on the bus, having had the correct fare refused, and wait for him to either give up and set off, or call the police. By the time they arrived customer services phone line would have been open and would have explained to the driver that he was an idiot (which was the response I got when I rang them later, along with a free ticket).

If the railway makes a mistake, the railway bears the cost, and I wouldn't trust the suggestion of paying and claiming a refund either, once they've got your money in those circumstances they'll be very reluctant to give it back, without proof that it would be impossible for an individual to provide days or weeks after the event.

At least if you challenge it on the train, and there's a group of unrelated people all claiming the same thing, there's a good chance the BTP will realise that something has gone wrong on the railway's side.

Spot on mate, possession is 9/10 of the law

 

[shredder1]

It's called competition, the whole reason for privatisation!

Ah competition, I did wonder, I guess that`s why Virgin run both the WCML and the ECML :roll:

 

[shredder1]

If a member of staff with authority to do so tells you you can board a train, that may not be a valid ticket but it is "other authority to travel".

Arguably it is not on the customer to work out whether a specific member of staff had that authority or not (which is why I believe it should be given only in writing using a dedicated pad).

Totally agree Neil, sadly they never do though mate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah competition, I did wonder, I guess that's why Virgin run both the WCML and the ECML :roll:

OK, I know the Virgin/Stagey proportion differs, but if you wanted any evidence that on-rail competition is dead/unimportant it's the fact that Stagey (with or without Virgin) run three out of the five[1] key mainlines.

[1] From west to east, GWR, WCML, MML, ECML, Anglia.

 

[shredder1]

OK, I know the Virgin/Stagey proportion differs, but if you wanted any evidence that on-rail competition is dead/unimportant it's the fact that Stagey (with or without Virgin) run three out of the five[1] key mainlines.

[1] From west to east, GWR, WCML, MML, ECML, Anglia.

Yes indeed, I accept what you say Neil, I do believe the thinking behind it.

 

[najaB]

The OP was told his ticket was valid according by the announcement...

The OP heard an announcement that he interpreted to mean his ticket was valid. Without a recording of what was said it is entirely possible that it was an ambiguous announcement which was misinterpreted.

 

[Llanigraham]

The OP was told his ticket was valid according by the announcement and in good faith boarded the train he was told was his, in fairness the general public tend to believe what station staff tell them, and why should they doubt it. Its different for us cranks, we tend to be more knowledgeable, but even we get it wrong at times. The validity of a ticket is surely dependant on what staff tell you.

He was not told that by anyone; he made an incorrect presumption.
He did NOT hold a valid ticket for that train; end of.

 

[gray1404]

If the PA announcement said: "The train now arriving at platform 1 is the 12:00 to Anytown." And the OP held a advance ticket for the"12:00 to Anytown" surely it is reasonable to say they have been given authority on that train - even if the railway employee doing the PA made a error.

 

[shredder1]

He was not told that by anyone; he made an incorrect presumption.
He did NOT hold a valid ticket for that train; end of.

Him and rest of the passengers apparently, incorrect presumptions?, Mr Endof

 

[shredder1]

If the PA announcement said: "The train now arriving at platform 1 is the 12:00 to Anytown." And the OP held a advance ticket for the"12:00 to Anytown" surely it is reasonable to say they have been given authority on that train - even if the railway employee doing the PA made a error.

Correct, some don`t appear to grasp that though :cry:

 

[najaB]

If the PA announcement said: "The train now arriving at platform 1 is the 12:00 to Anytown." And the OP held a advance ticket for the"12:00 to Anytown" surely it is reasonable to say they have been given authority on that train - even if the railway employee doing the PA made a error.

I've highlighted the key word in that statement.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The OP was told his ticket was valid according by the announcement and in good faith boarded the train he was told was his, in fairness the general public tend to believe what station staff tell them, and why should they doubt it. Its different for us cranks, we tend to be more knowledgeable, but even we get it wrong at times. The validity of a ticket is surely dependant on what staff tell you.

No he wasn't.

Yesterday i had a ticket for a train at 9.58am (darlington to edinburgh), which was delayed by 5-10mins. Another train pulled in and left approx 10am, and the station announcer then came on a few mins later and said "the next train to arrive on platform 4 is the 9.58 service to Edinburgh etc etc" therefore i got on it.

Nothing there about ticket validity or in any subsequent post from OP.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If the PA announcement said: "The train now arriving at platform 1 is the 12:00 to Anytown." And the OP held a advance ticket for the"12:00 to Anytown" surely it is reasonable to say they have been given authority on that train - even if the railway employee doing the PA made a error.

This is precisely why we need to follow the practice of just about everywhere else in the world and use "flight numbers" for all reservable trains.

Even if there are two 10:05s to Birmingham New St, there is only ever one IC8520.

 

[najaB]

This is precisely why we need to follow the practice of just about everywhere else in the world and use "flight numbers" for all reservable trains.

We do have them. Just nobody publishes them.

 

[185]

And no 10ft Virgin logo at either end of the train?

Whilst there will be on the front ends, I do note on VTEC, there are no other TOC-identifying logos in the middle part of their (quite long) trains. In a crowded platform, or if passengers enter that platform after it has arrived it is unlikely they would see anything other than a silver bodyside and red stripe at the end of each coach.

Also, in my opinion at York, VTEC and their predecessor companies have always seemed to make about six announcements for their own companies trains ... restaurant, buffet and trolley et al, whilst neglecting to announce platform alterations for other TOCs.

A number of occasions I recall, "Hmm, seems no-ones getting on today...." and having to stick a delay on whilst going hunting for passengers.

 

[CentralTrainer]

We do have them. Just nobody publishes them.

What are the "VT" numbers I see on the outer door displays of Virgin services referring to?

That might be a solution if something like that was able to be rolled out across the various different display types on stock?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What are the "VT" numbers I see on the outer door displays of Virgin services referring to?

These days they are the headcode/reporting number/whatever you call it (and those aren't always totally unique) - but they did used to put the retail service ID on there.

That might be a solution if something like that was able to be rolled out across the various different display types on stock?

More importantly it needs to go on the reservation ticket, in the journey planner and on the PIS.

 

[shredder1]

We do have them. Just nobody publishes them.

Great idea, thanks for the info guys, yes that would save a lot of problems

 

[shredder1]

No he wasn't.



Nothing there about ticket validity or in any subsequent post from OP.

"Yesterday i had a ticket for a train at 9.58am (darlington to edinburgh)" "The station announcer then came on a few mins later and said "the next train to arrive on platform 4 is the 9.58 service to Edinburgh"

 

[najaB]

"Yesterday i had a ticket for a train at 9.58am (darlington to edinburgh)" "The station announcer then came on a few mins later and said "the next train to arrive on platform 4 is the 9.58 service to Edinburgh"

Which isn't a statement about ticket validity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which isn't a statement about ticket validity.

It's a statement that it's his train if he was booked at that time.

If there are two 0958 services to Edinburgh, that's another call for the use of "flight numbers".

 

[gray1404]

This is precisely why we need to follow the practice of just about everywhere else in the world and use "flight numbers" for all reservable trains.

Even if there are two 10:05s to Birmingham New St, there is only ever one IC8520.

Surely the departure time and destination is, although not an advertised train number, it is enough information to identify the train.

So in this case how is the PA giving the incorrect departure time and train company (in this case the destination was correct) any different to the PA giving the incorrect train number.

In this case I think the person on the PA would have given out the wrong train number ie. the XC one. It is no different to what was given out - incorrect departure time and operator. I don't see what difference it will make when a mistake happens.

OP have you written a complain to Virgin Trains East Coast yet?

 

[shredder1]

Which isn't a statement about ticket validity.

Those who boarded thought it was?

 

[shredder1]

It's a statement that it's his train if he was booked at that time.

If there are two 0958 services to Edinburgh, that's another call for the use of "flight numbers".

Exactly

 

[LAX54]

It's a statement that it's his train if he was booked at that time.

If there are two 0958 services to Edinburgh, that's another call for the use of "flight numbers".

which it seems there are not

09:57 09:58 1S33 BHAMNEWST 07:03 220026 220034
10:02 10:04 1S06 KINGS X 07:30 BN09
10:20 10:22 1S07 KINGS X 08:00 BN11
10:57 11:00 1S35 BRISTOLTM 05:51 221138
11:21 11:23 1S09 KINGS X 09:00 BN27

 

[Signal Head]

Ah competition, I did wonder, I guess that`s why Virgin run both the WCML and the ECML :roll:

 

[Signal Head]

The problem is that, regardless if how it came to be, the OP was on a train without a valid ticket.

But it's not *regardless*, they did have a valid ticket for the journey, just not one for the particular train the railway (allegedly) 'told' them to get on.

Railway's error, railway's problem, not the passenger's.

It's similar to the situation in another thread about getting in 1st class with a standard ticket, by mistake because of unclear, confusing, or missing information, and in that instance the railway saw sense and accepted responsibility.