Incorrect Station Announcement - Boarded Wrong Train

[Taylor88]

Hi,

Yesterday i had a ticket for a train at 9.58am (darlington to edinburgh), which was delayed by 5-10mins. Another train pulled in and left approx 10am, and the station announcer then came on a few mins later and said "the next train to arrive on platform 4 is the 9.58 service to Edinburgh etc etc" therefore i got on it.

When the conductor cam around i was forced to pay an additional £70.40 for a new ticket (£27.70 was my original ticket price). as i was actually on the 10.04am service. The thing is, there were at least 7 or 8 people in my carriage alone who backed up that there was an incorrect announcement and were also forced to purchase the additional ticket. There were more than likely more in the other carriages. No common sense applied by the conductor of course that so many people surely couldn't ALL be wrong.

My questions are do you think i have a case for appeal, and how do i go about this?

Thanks in advance

 

[CentralTrainer]

Just had a quick look at Realtime Trains (mainly to save the more knowledgeable ones on here the added time).

1S33 - which was due to be the one you were getting - scheduled for 09:58, left at 10:17 (18L)

1S06 - which is the one you inadvertently did get on - scheduled for 10:04, left at 10:11 (7L)

The service in-between that dispatched from Platform 4 was a service for Newcastle - scheduled to go at 0941, departed at 10:02 (21L)

 

[Starmill]

I would guess you had a CrossCountry Advance ticket then? I am pretty surprised that an East Coast guard thought it was a good idea to charge you under these circumstances! What did you say to them? What did they say about your ticket, or the announcements that had been made at Darlington?

There is no question about this you should wirte to Virgin Trains East Coast with photos of your tickets explaining what you have told us here. If it were me, I would expect a refund of the price of the new ticket you paid for.

 

[High Dyke]

Firstly, were you travelling on an advanced purchase ticket?

Secondly, if so did it specify which train company to use?

 

[Taylor88]

thankyou central trainer. knew i was right that the train i was on didn't depart at 10.04. i was adamant its was closer to 10.08-10.09, and the board showed that my delayed train was due to depart at 10.07, definitly not 10.17 and so the board AND the announcement was wrong.

The conductor wouldn't budge and insisted that the train i was on was on time and departed at 10.04.

I would guess you had a CrossCountry Advance ticket then? I am pretty surprised that an East Coast guard thought it was a good idea to charge you under these circumstances! What did you say to them? What did they say about your ticket, or the announcements that had been made at Darlington?

There is no question about this you should wirte to Virgin Trains East Coast with photos of your tickets explaining what you have told us here. If it were me, I would expect a refund of the price of the new ticket you paid for.

I basically said that there was a wrong announcement, which is why i got on that train which was corroborated by several others i the same situation. but she wouldnt budge and insisted we all pay up

Firstly, were you travelling on an advanced purchase ticket?

Secondly, if so did it specify which train company to use?

Yes advanced purchase. It did specify Cross Country and i got on a virgin train so obviously i was in the wrong there but i just went with the station announcement. For what its worth the only virgin markings on this particular train from the outside was a small logo on an A4 piece of paper on the door windows.

 

[furlong]

If it was an Advance ticket and the original train was delayed the Terms and Conditions state unambiguously:


http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46546.aspx

Conditions of Use.
...
If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.

No minimum length of delay, no operator restriction and no mention of any requirement to seek permission from staff before invoking this condition according to the definitive source of customer information.

 

[Clip]

If it was an Advance ticket and the original train was delayed the Terms and Conditions state unambiguously:


http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/46546.aspx



No minimum length of delay, no operator restriction and no mention of any requirement to seek permission from staff before invoking this condition according to the definitive source of customer information.

The pertinent wording there is - whilst travelling. The passenger hadn't started their journey so this isn't good advice imo.

 

[najaB]

If it was an Advance ticket and the original train was delayed the Terms and Conditions state unambiguously...

We've had this discussion previously and it all turns on the fact that they've stuck that pesky word 'available' in there.

If I hold a walk up, TOC-specific ticket the only services 'available' to me are those operated by that TOC. I don't see why that should be any different for a holder of an Advance ticket.

 

[Darandio]

For what its worth the only virgin markings on this particular train from the outside was a small logo on an A4 piece of paper on the door windows.

And no 10ft Virgin logo at either end of the train?

 

[100andthirty]

Hi najaB. I understand what you've said, but how would an ordinary punter understand that "next available" means "if you hold a TOC specific ticket you can only use trains of that TOC"? I presume the term isn't defined - he says from bitter experience of ploughing through pages and pages of defined terms in contracts!!!!

 

[najaB]

Hi najaB. I understand what you've said, but how would an ordinary punter understand that "next available" means "if you hold a TOC specific ticket you can only use trains of that TOC"?

In the case of a walk up fare it is printed on the ticket e.g. 'Valid only on East Coast trains'. In the case of an Advance ticket it's valid on the booked train only, so they would have to consult staff if the booked train is cancelled.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

And no 10ft Virgin logo at either end of the train?

I think that possibly Virgin have a HST on loan to them from EMT, if they do, it might have been the loan set that the OP boarded

 

[6Gman]

Hi,

Yesterday i had a ticket for a train at 9.58am (darlington to edinburgh), which was delayed by 5-10mins. Another train pulled in and left approx 10am, and the station announcer then came on a few mins later and said "the next train to arrive on platform 4 is the 9.58 service to Edinburgh etc etc" therefore i got on it.

When the conductor cam around i was forced to pay an additional £70.40 for a new ticket (£27.70 was my original ticket price). as i was actually on the 10.04am service. The thing is, there were at least 7 or 8 people in my carriage alone who backed up that there was an incorrect announcement and were also forced to purchase the additional extortionate ticket. There were more than likely more in the other carriages. No common sense applied by the jobsworth conductor of course that so many people surely couldn't be all wrong.

My questions are do you think i have a case for appeal, and how do i go about this?

Thanks in advance

I think you have strong grounds to seek a refund.

However, I would not use the terms highlighted.

Write to VTEC explaining what happened.

 

[najaB]

I think you have strong grounds to seek a refund.

However, I would not use the terms highlighted.

I agree with both of those statements. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar (unless they're fruit flies).

 

[Starmill]

The thing that perplexes me is why the guard insisted on the purchase of new tickets of so many people. Did the guard not click that there was something going on when a large number of different people not travelling together had apparently made the same mistake? And did they not suggest leaving the train and catching the correct one somewhere? Or was the next stop already Edinburgh by the time your tickets were checked?

 

[AlterEgo]

The thing that perplexes me is why the guard insisted on the purchase of new tickets of so many people. Did the guard not click that there was something going on when a large number of different people not travelling together had apparently made the same mistake? And did they not suggest leaving the train and catching the correct one somewhere? Or was the next stop already Edinburgh by the time your tickets were checked?

Commission.

 

[neilmc]

This sort of situation needs wider publicity in the national media as an example of the abuse of passengers by the rail industry. Most passengers would reasonably think that a train which departs for their destination at around the time and platform advertised - and, as it appears, actually announced - will be their train irrespective of branding.

A good start may be to prohibit the sale of specific-TOC only tickets.

 

[najaB]

Commission.

It might be. Or it may be a case of "I've started so I'll finish." - having issued the first couple of fares it was face-saving to continue. I'd expect that any commission would be reduced by a large number of refunds if the guard is deemed to have been in the wrong.

 

[AlterEgo]

It might be. Or it may be a case of "I've started so I'll finish." - having issued the first couple of fares it was face-saving to continue. I'd expect that any commission would be reduced by a large number of refunds if the guard is deemed to have been in the wrong.

If a guard sells a ticket and it is subsequently refunded by customer services then they still keep the commission.

 

[FenMan]

If a guard sells a ticket and it is subsequently refunded by customer services then they still keep the commission.

Ker-ching!

 

[najaB]

If a guard sells a ticket and it is subsequently refunded by customer services then they still keep the commission.

Even in a case where, picking a random figure, there's actually 30 tickets mis-sold?

 

[Haywain]

I think that possibly Virgin have a HST on loan to them from EMT, if they do, it might have been the loan set that the OP boarded

Certainly not. 1S06 is an electric 225 set, and the loan HST would only be used for quieter services such as the Hull - London circuit.

 

[yorkie]

My questions are do you think i have a case for appeal, and how do i go about this?

You can contact the train company (VTEC, it appears) in the first instance.

If they do not refund you, refer the matter to Transport Focus: https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/contact/complaint/ and if they do not refund you, ask them to escalate the matter to David Sidebottom. If he doesn't sort it, escalate it to Anthony Smith.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Sprinter153]

I believe that yorkie's advice above is sound. Contact the train company - without using excessive hyperbole like 'jobsworth' (urgh) - and escalate as appropriate. On the one hand, you were not on the train that actually corresponded with your ticket; but on the other hand, given the delay, and the apparent error in announcements, I don't believe you should have been charged. I certainly wouldn't have done so and nor would a great many colleagues.

However I think it's a little unfair for members to declare, based solely on preconceptions and conjecture, that the Guard chose to issue new tickets just so they could gain commission. It's not as much of a brilliant earner as some would have you believe and most staff don't really care that much about it. From the Guard's perspective the ticket was invalid and they took the technically correct, if not customer-friendly, action.

 

[gray1404]

I do wonder why the guard simply didn't request that passengers who had boarded the incorrect service alight at the next station Durham and board the correct train from there (or indeed Newcastle if you had left Durham already).

Darlington is also managed by Virgin Trains East Coast. They as a company make the mistake at the station followed by another one on board the train. I noticed you were charged for a Off Peak Single, rather then an Anytime Single.

 

[AlterEgo]

Even in a case where, picking a random figure, there's actually 30 tickets mis-sold?

Indeed. A refund from customer services is just a cheque sent out. There's no lengthy process of cancelling the ticket or debiting the guard's commission figures.

Can you imagine what would happen if guards' payslips started being changed thanks to customer services staff at HQ deciding they had wrongly sold the ticket?

 

[bb21]

Can you imagine what would happen if guards' payslips started being changed thanks to customer services staff at HQ deciding they had wrongly sold the ticket?

RMT threatening to go on strike?

What a ridiculous case. If other people backed him up about the wrong announcement then it should have been ticket passed, case closed.

I would expect Customer Relations to sort this out without any quibble.

 

[Taylor88]

And no 10ft Virgin logo at either end of the train?

I am not 100% sure about the front and back carriages since you mention that, but i do recall getting off the train in edinburgh and thinking i'll check to see if the train has virgin plastered all over it, but couldn't see anything like that.

I think you have strong grounds to seek a refund.

However, I would not use the terms highlighted.

Write to VTEC explaining what happened.

Ok, thanks for the advice

The thing that perplexes me is why the guard insisted on the purchase of new tickets of so many people. Did the guard not click that there was something going on when a large number of different people not travelling together had apparently made the same mistake? And did they not suggest leaving the train and catching the correct one somewhere? Or was the next stop already Edinburgh by the time your tickets were checked?

This is what annoyed me the most and why i used the unpopular term "jobsworth". around seven people travelling separately (in my carriage alone) all getting it wrong about the announcement and departure time? surely common sense has to be applied in this particular situation.

You can contact the train company (VTEC, it appears) in the first instance.

If they do not refund you, refer the matter to Transport Focus: https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/contact/complaint/ and if they do not refund you, ask them to escalate the matter to David Sidebottom. If he doesn't sort it, escalate it to Anthony Smith.

Let us know how you get on.

Thanks, i'll do this

I believe that yorkie's advice above is sound. Contact the train company - without using excessive hyperbole like 'jobsworth' (urgh) - and escalate as appropriate. On the one hand, you were not on the train that actually corresponded with your ticket; but on the other hand, given the delay, and the apparent error in announcements, I don't believe you should have been charged. I certainly wouldn't have done so and nor would a great many colleagues.

However I think it's a little unfair for members to declare, based solely on preconceptions and conjecture, that the Guard chose to issue new tickets just so they could gain commission. It's not as much of a brilliant earner as some would have you believe and most staff don't really care that much about it. From the Guard's perspective the ticket was invalid and they took the technically correct, if not customer-friendly, action.

Thanks, it's good to know there are some guards out there with common sense then!

I do wonder why the guard simply didn't request that passengers who had boarded the incorrect service alight at the next station Durham and board the correct train from there (or indeed Newcastle if you had left Durham already).

Darlington is also managed by Virgin Trains East Coast. They as a company make the mistake at the station followed by another one on board the train. I noticed you were charged for a Off Peak Single, rather then an Anytime Single.

We had already left newcastle, the next stop was waverley (i dont recall it stopping at berwick)

 

[shredder1]

Personaly I simply wouldnt have paid, I`d give him my details if he wished, but he wouldnt have got any more money out of me, in fact I would have stood up in the coach and suggested no one else paid either, thats appalling.

 

[221129]

Personaly I simply wouldnt have paid, I`d give him my details if he wished, but he wouldnt have got any more money out of me, in fact I would have stood up in the coach and suggested no one else paid either, thats appauling.

Then you would probably not be getting to your destination...