Blockade to allow Waterloo upgrade to take place, resulting in timetable changes

[swt_passenger]

My understaning is that plats 20-24 will have 12 car capacity, not just 10. Happy to be corrected.

Does anyone have any pics to show how close to buffers the stopping points are, and how much space at country end before the starting signals?

I suggest the route learning videos linked in the Southeastern diversion thread show the starting signals are optimised for 12 car trains:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=3064477&postcount=99

The Sun article is probably quoting from errors in the NR PR material, there's still a page that clearly says lengthening P1-P4 will allow for 10 car trains to Reading. Which everyone here realises is bollox, because Reading trains go from the other side of the station which is already 10 car at least:

Here's an example of NR clouding the issues, note how they link two completely separate issues in one paragraph:

Extending platforms 1–4 to allow longer 10-carriage trains – instead of the current eight-carriage ones – to run to London suburban stations for the first time in the busiest periods. The platforms at Ascot, Bracknell, Camberley, Chertsey, Egham, Feltham, Martins Heron, Sunningdale, Virginia Water and Wokingham will also be extended to accommodate these longer trains.

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/our-railway-upgrade-plan/key-projects/wessex-improvement-programme/

 

[Goldfish62]

10-car Class 458/5 formations have been in use to Reading for the first time this weekend.

 

[Feathers44]

10-car Class 458/5 formations have been in use to Reading for the first time this weekend.

Are they running 10 car 455+455+456 combinations on the Epsom line for the first time? Normally, I'd look out of the kitchen window to find out but I'm not home at the minute (and no-one who is would be able to answer the question).

 

[TEW]

Are they running 10 car 455+455+456 combinations on the Epsom line for the first time? Normally, I'd look out of the kitchen window to find out but I'm not home at the minute (and no-one who is would be able to answer the question).

Yep. Suburban routes via Wimbledon have been a mix of 8 and 10 coaches this weekend. Should be all 10 coaches from tomorrow.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are they running 10 car 455+455+456 combinations on the Epsom line for the first time? Normally, I'd look out of the kitchen window to find out but I'm not home at the minute (and no-one who is would be able to answer the question).

Yes, I rode one yesterday ( Saturday ). Most were 10 car although some 8 cars were around as well. Rather shockingly at least two diagrams through Raynes park on the main line were four cars, one of which was 2 x 456...

The Hampton Court shuttle was a 4 car as well ( 455 902 ) although that was adequate for the numbers using it.

 

[infobleep]

I'm finding some odd timetables tomorrow.

If I put in Clapham Junction to Berrylands there is a 8.12 service.

However if I put in East Croydon to Berrylands via Clapham Junction, it comes up with the 7.45, arriving 7.55. It then suggests getting the 8.42.

Have they added a massive interchange time? If so how long? If you don't put via Clapham Junction, it keeps suggesting one goes via the Croydon tramlink. However tramlink validity doesn't exist on National Rail tickets as South West Trains hasn't agreed such a thing. Yet National Rail Enquiries App says it's faster to do that.

I use Berrylands in this example as that has two trains an hour. The same issue occurs with other stations that have more trains.

 

[bb21]

It has been reported on the forum that interchange time at Clapham Junction has been increased temporarily to 20 minutes, iirc.

 

[Harbouring]

Any interchange involving SWT at CLJ is 37 mins according to Brtimes

 

[randompixel]

I thought all trains were going to be longer? The 2L16 0616 from Basingstoke seems to have shrunk from 12 -> 8.

I will say it is a fair bit quieter however.

 

[randompixel]

I thought all trains were going to be longer? The 2L16 0616 from Basingstoke seems to have shrunk from 12 -> 8.

I will say it is a fair bit quieter however.

Well it became 12 at Woking. How odd. Carry on.

 

[nlogax]

Managed to squeeze onto the 06.41from Surbs to Waterloo. I say 'squeeze', as I type there's still plenty of room to swing this cat I found. Let's see how CJ looks.

OK.. Clapham very quiet on the mainline platforms. Fingers crossed things remain manageable.

 

[SWT_USER]

First class has been reinstated on the 458/5's this morning, presumably as they can be used on the Reading services now. Handy for me as I people on the via Hounslow services have seen the signs and stayed out leaving me a free choice of seats

 

[infobleep]

Any interchange involving SWT at CLJ is 37 mins according to Brtimes

Thanks for that. In the case of fast trains from East Croydon to slow trains south from Clapham Junction, it's a cross platform change, so one wouldn't need 37 minutes unless they are going to ask passengers to leave the platform and join a different queue. The platform isn't that large so no room for barriers to direct passengers.

Still I guess it's a deterant to stop passengers heading that way. However you'd think they might include tramlink validity if they want people to avoid going that way. There's no other easy way to reach Wimbledon that I'm aware of, for people heading south, except via Clapham Junction. Perhaps they don't want people at Wimbledon either but then when Govia Thameslink Railway have had their disruptions, due to strikes and staff preferring not to work overtime, they included Tramlink validity.

Surely SWT can't be assuming everyone wants to head north and nowhere else.

 

[infobleep]

Managed to squeeze onto the 06.41from Surbs to Waterloo. I say 'squeeze', as I type there's still plenty of room to swing this cat I found. Let's see how CJ looks.

OK.. Clapham very quiet on the mainline platforms. Fingers crossed things remain manageable.

If things go better than the warnings, perhaps they will be able to reduce the interchange times at Clapham Junction.

I appreciate the warnings are there to put people off. Without them the might be worse chaos than predicted.

Anyway I should be in Clapham around 8.15, so be interesting to see how it is then.

 

[Goldfish62]

First class has been reinstated on the 458/5's this morning, presumably as they can be used on the Reading services now. Handy for me as I people on the via Hounslow services have seen the signs and stayed out leaving me a free choice of seats

There are some 458s out on Reading services, eg 0652 from Reading. First class hasn't been reinstated on at least the front unit. Very quiet indeed for a Monday morning.

 

[randompixel]

So we were late, but not _that_ bad. About 13 minutes I think. Definitely a slow congested crawl from Wimbledon through to Waterloo, so I'm glad I'm an early commuter. Here's to an easy commute home later.

 

[nlogax]

So we were late, but not _that_ bad. About 13 minutes I think. Definitely a slow congested crawl from Wimbledon through to Waterloo, so I'm glad I'm an early commuter. Here's to an easy commute home later.

I'm not risking it this evening.. tube to Wimbledon and nice walk home I think.

Things to see on your slow crawl n/e from Clapham.

- Work already in full flow on Vauxhall platforms 7 and 8
- A glut of 66s in W'loo station throat and platforms. I counted at least six.
- The gaggle of media and observers perched on the balcony of the temporary NR buildings adjacent to P1 watching the proceedings...some of whom I'm sure are hoping for chaos.

 

[infobleep]

Clapham Junction at 8.10 today. I was on platform form 11 and 12.

First one is looking over to platform 10.

Second is the subway down.

Third is towards platform 10.

Fourth is from within a carriage of the 8.05 to Guildford. It was running 5-6 minutes late but I don't know why. Certainly wasn't busy.

If things continue like this, hopefully they can reduce the interchange time at Clapham Junction.

I know when the Olympics was on, Transport for London, were going to implement a system where by passengers leaving the underground at Euston would be able to use the subway to platforms 8 to 11 but passengers heading to the tube would need to use the main entrance.

As the numbers did not materialise they abandoned this plan. However when disruption occurred on the tube, within a day or so of abandoning the plan, they didn't reinstate the plan. No they just closed the subway off. I. E. Reverting to standard prodecures, rather than the one which actually helped passengers heading out of the tube.

So hopefully South West Trains can modify things like interchange times, if it's shown they aren't needed.

I stress I don't have a problem with them being put in, in advance, as who knows what the passenger numbers might have been. The only exception to this is the cross platform changes. On that point alone, surely it must have been possible to reduce them for cross platform changes, whilst keeping them in for all other changes. I can't see how it would take 37 minutes to cross from one side of a narrow platform to the other. It's not as if they were planning to make the trainbi was on not stop there.

Now on a 213 bus which is busy due to their being a 13 minute gap between services. Whether that is due to additional passengers heading away from places like Kingston, I don't know. This bus runs between Kingston and Sutton and goes via New Malden station and Worcester Park station.

 

[swt_passenger]

I stress I don't have a problem with them being put in, in advance, as who knows what the passenger numbers might have been. The only exception to this is the cross platform changes. On that point alone, surely it must have been possible to reduce them for cross platform changes, whilst keeping them in for all other changes. I can't see how it would take 37 minutes to cross from one side of a narrow platform to the other. It's not as if they were planning to make the trainbi was on not stop there...

I'd expect they cannot program that level of detail. Interchange times are given for a whole station by default, and there can also be separate times given for changes involving certain TOCs. At Clapham Junction, changes between up direction trains are sometimes cross platform and sometimes separate platforms, dependent on where in the station you are.

Then again all Southern trains are in 6 adjacent platforms, but SWT use 9 platforms in two completely separate parts of the station...

I expect it is just too difficult...

 

[infobleep]

I'm not risking it this evening.. tube to Wimbledon and nice walk home I think.

Things to see on your slow crawl n/e from Clapham.

- Work already in full flow on Vauxhall platforms 7 and 8
- A glut of 66s in W'loo station throat and platforms. I counted at least six.
- The gaggle of media and observers perched on the balcony of the temporary NR buildings adjacent to P1 watching the proceedings...some of whom I'm sure are hoping for chaos.

So what is leading to the delays and are trains heading north packed?.

Clapham Junction platform 10 was not busy compared the last week! I'm not surprised it's less busy. However I didn't think there would be delays out of Waterloo if platform 10 wasn't busy and there have been.

Maybe the media can find something small to moan about. The traffic is busy into Kingston so how about this:

Traffic chaos in Kingston due to evil train company not running any trains during commuter rush hour!

There was a man up front swearing about the number if bus stops the bus was stopping at sp they could quote him with #**# for the swear words!

The fact the journey was no longer than if might be were schools not on leave would of course be ignored.

 

[swt_passenger]

So what is leading to the delays and are trains heading north packed?.

Taken over a 3 hour period, were the delays that significant? There were some up trains arriving early as well.

Not really chaos, was it? Wonder how it will be reported. Helpfully though, I guess if the media report it as a disaster there ought to be less people travelling...

Paul

 

[RichardN]

Fourth is from within a carriage of the 8.05 to Guildford. It was running 5-6 minutes late but I don't know why. Certainly wasn't busy.

You were on the same train as me. I was pleasantly surprised by how quiet Clapham Junction was. Hopefully it will stay that way for the entire 3 weeks.

 

[nlogax]

Not really chaos, was it? Wonder how it will be reported. Helpfully though, I guess if the media report it as a disaster there ought to be less people travelling...

Paul

Both the Graun and the Standard have taken a reasonably positive view of this morning's lack of drama.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/07/predicted-waterloo-rail-chaos-fails-to-materialise

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...ther-routes-to-avoid-major-work-a3605306.html

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Currently signalling problems at Waterloo, platforms 11-13

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/168847.aspx

A signalling problem is affecting platforms 11, 12 and 13 at London Waterloo. The high volume of trains and the major improvement works taking place, which has closed platforms 1 - 10 at London Waterloo means that congestion has occurred, and some trains have been delayed by up to 20 minutes.

We anticipate this will continue until 12:00.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well it became 12 at Woking. How odd. Carry on.

That's because they've re-instated the Basingstoke / Alton splits at Woking for the duration of the works.

 

[traji00]

Working the gateline at Raynes Park, and this perfectly sums up the quietness we had:

However there was some discontent about the a lack of info regarding the closure of New Malden - Kingston.

 

[infobleep]

I'd expect they cannot program that level of detail. Interchange times are given for a whole station by default, and there can also be separate times given for changes involving certain TOCs. At Clapham Junction, changes between up direction trains are sometimes cross platform and sometimes separate platforms, dependent on where in the station you are.

Then again all Southern trains are in 6 adjacent platforms, but SWT use 9 platforms in two completely separate parts of the station...

I expect it is just too difficult...

I was mostly expecting that answer of too difficult but thought I'd enquire all the same.

 

[infobleep]

Taken over a 3 hour period, were the delays that significant? There were some up trains arriving early as well.

Not really chaos, was it? Wonder how it will be reported. Helpfully though, I guess if the media report it as a disaster there ought to be less people travelling...

Paul

They weren't significant at all as far as I could tell, so not chaos some of the media would have liked. The train was I was on was only 5 minutes late and started to make up the time.

Still small details such as their significance don't seem to always matter to the media.

Despite all of that I am curious to know if these small minor delays were due to the works or just usual random stuff that happens during a period of trains running on the railways.

 

[infobleep]

Working the gateline at Raynes Park, and this perfectly sums up the quietness we had:

However there was some discontent about the a lack of info regarding the closure of New Malden - Kingston.

I spoke with one person today who wasn't aware that section of line was closed. I'd have thought it would be well advertised at the stations. They don't regularly use the train though

I spoke with someone else last night who asked me what was up, with regards the message online there there would be queuing at Waterloo. Still it's not as if they commute regularly through Waterloo. Oh wait, they do! Haha. Still they are now better informed.

I also said the best time not to travel on the Waterloo & City line was 8.30-9am, even without disruption. They just happened to comment it was busy then.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There was a track circuit failure affecting platforms 11-13 this morning from around 0800-1000 which was the source of many of the problems which emerged, other than that it was all pretty smooth. 455s on Shepperton and Kingston loops, 450s on the Hounslow Loop, 458s on Readings and Weybridges. Mainline suburban services mainly 455+455+456 (456) at the country end.

The International side looked smart for such a temporary affair although it was a busty underfoot!