Apart from the cost of doing it, making a heavy-haul freight loco lighter is bad news - the weight is an important factor in the amount of low-speed tractive effort it can generate.
(It's why some of those brawny American diesel locos mentioned up-thread weigh nearly 200 tonnes on 6 axles).
Point taken mate. I was thinking more of economics than the adverse effects of the weight reduction. Also if and only is a lighter more compact power unit was used. Providing that space is available, steel ballast blocks could be added to the locomotive to "fatten" it up to the original weight?
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You wouldn't use the 12V4000 - probably the 16V4000 - as the V12 would be somewhat lacking in horsepower.
Although personally I'd rather they used the 18VP185 or the same CAT as the 68s. That would give a lift in horsepower to match the Class 70's performance.
I would have gone for the VP185 option no problem but I went for the V12 MTU to lower fuel consumption more than anything here mate. But I get you
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Some interesting/good ideas, but I'd have thought any buy/hire DB 60s strategy for GBRf would involve getting their hands on ones in the best condition (if DB will allow) and using what's already in them, which let's face it isn't a bad engine.
I'd be a little surprised (but not totally!) if they were looking to get their hands on 60s to then re-build/re-engine them.
I think that re-powering them or removing and rebuilding the power unit from the engine core upwards would maximise reliability for the FOC and would give a great return on the investment that GBRF et all would cough up for the locomotives.
Have read previous posts advocating use of existing class 60 locos rebuilt with new diesels and controls.
The class 60 was built with a slow speed diesel and any medium or high speed diesel will need a reduction gearbox interposed between Diesel engine and existing alternator or a new matching alternator.
Strait rebuild with existing equipment is probably the only option.
New build is by far the best way forward .
I know it will cost a pretty penny to overhaul/rebuild the Class 60's to the standard of the new locomotive and if what Brush/Wabtec have done with the 92's is anything to go by. If Brush/Wabtec implemented this with the Class 60's that DBC no long want or need. It would still be cheaper than buying a new fleet of locomotives from scratch. Not to mention that if the 18v VP185 or the 16v MTU V4000 was used. It would be a boss against the Class 70 and rebuilding the Class 60's would be quicker and cheaper than paying more and waiting longer for a new fleet of locomotives
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Best, but possibly/probably not the most cost effective in the shorter/medium term.
Assuming heavy-haul locos are what they're needing the 'wheel' / Class 60 doesn't need reinventing. There's 75 Class 60s sitting in DB's yards doing nothing but rusting away. The only real question for me is how many are in a decent enough state to get back on the rails again with an economically viable amount of effort.
I suspect GBRf/Brush will have learnt a lot from their experiences with the 92s - i.e. it can be done, but a quick overhaul of something stored for many years is unlikely to give the desired results.
Taking into account that 34 (Colas/DBC) active and standby Class 60's are in the usable fleets. The other 66 of them could be bought by Brush/Wabtec as this would allow Brush to strip down the "dogged" ones (60006/60081/60064/60070/60098 being the worst of them all) for parts that would be stripped off those and then recondition the needed parts for the overhauls of the other ones are deemed fit for purpose/overhaul. Brush/Wabtec could use a couple of them to test out the new traction equipment and cab controls etc. Perhaps restyle the cab roofs with the horns split behind two grills with a central upper headlight like you get on the Class 92's as small alterations like that would modernise their looks in the process. I won't deny that a fair amount of work is needed as some of the Class 60's have been out in the open at Toton for over 10 years from the days of EWS that neglected them sadly. So there could be some that will not make it back. But the better ones have a good chance of another crack back on the tracks
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a new locomotive build that is emission compliant and able to run within uk gauge is a major design project which take too much time and money.
which with gb only looking for a smallish fleet of locos would not be worth the time and money when theres a far easier option like getting more class 60s overhauled
I totally agree with you on that buddy and most of the core parts are already there in regards the stored disused Class 60's waiting to be worked on
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...and the 60 (diesel engine aside) is all-Brush, rather than the Brush-ABB 92s, which might make things easier (and the electronics should be rather less complex).
Purely for a bit of fun
, how about an AC-drive 60 re-build plus a job lot of redundant Mk3s as a crowd-buster, Indian style -
https://youtu.be/lyZ1l7mNum0?t=89 (from 1:29 onwards). The WDG4 (GT46MAC) is an Indian version of an SD70MAC, and that's an 18 carriage train it's accelerating... (Watching the video from the beginning is only advisable for fully paid up members of the 'clag' club
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As much as I would love to see a Class 60 haul a rake of Mk3's with a Mk3 DVT on the other end (I've done this in model form haha!). Sadly the Class 60's have no HEP or "Push-Pull" capability. Because if they did and I had pots of money. I would buy 60008, rebuild it and shove a VP185 in that sucker and buy a Mk3 rake with a DVT purely for seaside charters (Kings X to Skegness anyone?)
. But on a serious note. I think I would prefer to see a Class 60 flexing its muscles on a heavy oil/coal/stone/granite train like 60091 did when it was revving its guts out through Barnetby on the 7th of July in the blazing heat with the cooling fans roaring!
That's some acceleration!! Reckon you'd get similar out of a 92 on the beds but we seem to be concerned by something called "passenger comfort" more in the UK... :roll:
Better cease talk of modified 60s for passenger use as tends to result in folk frothing at the mouth (either in excitement or rage)...!
Sadly the weaknesses of the Class 60's is that there is no HEP, push-pull equipment and only a top whack of 60mph would only allow them for passenger railtours only. Especially as there would be no heating in winter
. Although I use a Hornby Class 60 with a rake of ATW Mk3's with DVT all the time in OO gauge
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