158 Accidental separation Newcastle 16/05

[westcoaster]

Is that really necessary here?

I do not see the issue, it's within there remit is it not. Or do you mean talking about the raib.

 

[edwin_m]

That's probably the tightest right-hand curve it will have been round since leaving Loughborough. If Brush's scope includes the coupling then I think they'll be on the phone to their insurers.

 

[Tomnick]

As someone who's qualified on 156, were taught that this is a possibility due to the inter-vehicle coupling being the BSI. I've seen a video on Facebook where the vehicle on the left continued onto the left with the right vehicle stationary after Train Wire 4 was broken, throwing the brakes onto the rear vehicle. But still quite concerning as we'll be getting 158's up at Newcastle soon! Looks like it was on the Up Main too which they've had a possession on some nights this week recently for ballast renewal. Coincidence?

No more of a possibility than two vehicles separating at the BSI coupler between two (previously) coupled units, surely? Quite a few 15x units have bar couplings between the vehicles now in any case - had this formed part of the work done at Brush?

As a point of order, in the second example given above, train wire 4 breaking should've applied the brakes on the leading portion (unless the EBS had been raised, in which case it'd have no effect). The loss of train wires 23/24 (?) would've applied the brakes on the rear portion in either case.

 

[GW43125]

"We are never ever ever getting back together"

That joke last saw the light of day when that 455 came apart at Battersea two years ago...

 

[GW43125]

As a point of order, in the second example given above, train wire 4 breaking should've applied the brakes on the leading portion (unless the EBS had been raised, in which case it'd have no effect). The loss of train wires 23/24 (?) would've applied the brakes on the rear portion in either case.

I thought brakes were wires 10/11/12 on a 15x?

 

[NorthernSpirit]

No more of a possibility than two vehicles separating at the BSI coupler between two (previously) coupled units, surely? Quite a few 15x units have bar couplings between the vehicles now in any case.

What about the hybrid 158's? Woundn't the redundant cab and extra car be connected by BSI couplings?

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I don't often comment on technical railway matters, but as a regular at Newcastle station, this was my first thought:-

That's probably the tightest right-hand curve it will have been round since leaving Loughborough. . . . .

a thought not far from a consideration of the tightest left-hand curve a few hundred meters before, on the approach to the King Edward Bridge. (Curves which ~20 years ago, notoriously prevented the Eurostar sets reaching Newcastle or beyond as anticipated.)

 

[Tomnick]

I thought brakes were wires 10/11/12 on a 15x?

Off topic really, but there's a bit of detail in this RAIB report. Train wires 23 and 24 'repeat' the state of the brake controller along the length of the train, 25 is additionally de-energised when the brake controller is placed to emergency (but this shouldn't result in a further increase in brake cylinder pressure). Losing both of 23 and 24, or 25 on its own, should result in a brake application on the rear portion (but not the leading portion where they're still energised?). Losing train wire 4 will initiate a brake application on the leading portion (as long as the EBS isn't raised).

What about the hybrid 158's? Woundn't the redundant cab and extra car be connected by BSI couplings?

Yes, presumably with a bit of extra work because the BSI coupler between vehicles doesn't have the electrical and air connections, only the mechanical bit (there is a separate main res connection and jumper cables for the electrical signals). Are there still hybrid units in service? The move to bar couplings on the 15x fleet is relatively recent, and I'm not sure how widespread it is yet.

 

[GW43125]

Off topic really, but there's a bit of detail in this RAIB report. Train wires 23 and 24 'repeat' the state of the brake controller along the length of the train, 25 is additionally de-energised when the brake controller is placed to emergency (but this shouldn't result in a further increase in brake cylinder pressure). Losing both of 23 and 24, or 25 on its own, should result in a brake application on the rear portion (but not the leading portion where they're still energised?). Losing train wire 4 will initiate a brake application on the leading portion (as long as the EBS isn't raised).

You learn something new every day. Thanks.

 

[plymothian]

I do not see the issue, it's within there remit is it not. Or do you mean talking about the raib.

Train division is classified as an accident in the rulebook (along with fire, derailment and collision) - the highest classification of an incident. Therefore is a serious issue that will be investigated by the RAIB.

 

[6Gman]

Train division is classified as an accident in the rulebook (along with fire, derailment and collision) - the highest classification of an incident. Therefore is a serious issue that will be investigated by the RAIB.

And quite rightly!

Trains should not spontaneously separate.

 

[dubscottie]

I don't often comment on technical railway matters, but as a regular at Newcastle station, this was my first thought:-a thought not far from a consideration of the tightest left-hand curve a few hundred meters before, on the approach to the King Edward Bridge. (Curves which ~20 years ago, notoriously prevented the Eurostar sets reaching Newcastle or beyond as anticipated.)

EuroStars made it up the ECML (37 hauled) no problem.

What is the point in replacing the BSI?

It makes forming 3 car sets at short notice impossible.

And bar couplers are not reliable as was proven in the 90's when Networkers kept splitting.

Will be interesting to know if it was the coupler or dragbox that went.

 

[dubscottie]

Edit.. Going by the zoom on the Twitter pic it was still BSI fitted.

 

[syorksdeano]

I see Scot rail have taken the air conditioning to a new level

Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk

 

[43096]

Train division is classified as an accident in the rulebook (along with fire, derailment and collision) - the highest classification of an incident. Therefore is a serious issue that will be investigated by the RAIB.

It is reportable. Whether an incident is investigated is down to the RAIB themselves.

 

[Eccles1983]

Replacing bsi couplers to bars makes sense with regard to brake regs in DOTE plans.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Train division is classified as an accident in the rulebook (along with fire, derailment and collision) - the highest classification of an incident. Therefore is a serious issue that will be investigated by the RAIB.

Quite rightly so. If nothing else, if a passenger had been crossing between coaches at the time it happened they could well have been killed or seriously injured by falling out of the train.

 

[rebmcr]

Anyone care to explain what happened here? Haha

Well, the front fell off.

[youtube]3m5qxZm_JqM[/youtube]

 

[Wookiee]

Post of the day (says a committed nationalist/SNP supporter!).

Anyway, a quick look on Scot-Rail.co.uk confirms that this was indeed the move from Loughborough. It is indeed only 156s that go from Newcastle to Carlisle.

Identified as 158789. I understand some units have been going to Loughborough for internal refurbishment.

A fitter somewhere is saying "I wondered why I had those bolts left over".

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Yes, presumably with a bit of extra work because the BSI coupler between vehicles doesn't have the electrical and air connections, only the mechanical bit (there is a separate main res connection and jumper cables for the electrical signals). Are there still hybrid units in service? The move to bar couplings on the 15x fleet is relatively recent, and I'm not sure how widespread it is yet.

The GWR 15892x are hybrids.

 

[Martin66]

The units were still on platform 1 at Newcastle Central Station this afternoon (18 May 2017):

 

[E_Reeves]

Well, the front fell off.

[youtube]3m5qxZm_JqM[/youtube]

This video has made my day!

 

[Ediswan]

The railway modellers can add that to the collection of "There's a prototype for everything".

 

[GW43125]

This video has made my day!

Brilliant.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Still on P1 at Newcastle as of today (Sat 20th May)

Image of coupler - Taken from station platform I might add as a disclaimer!

 

[gimmea50anyday]

quite why the site has posted it upside down I do not know...

 

[185143]

Still on P1 at Newcastle as of today (Sat 20th May)

Image of coupler - Taken from station platform I might add as a disclaimer!

Got to go and have a nosey at that when I reach Newcastle haven't I

 

[MotCO]

That joke last saw the light of day when that 455 came apart at Battersea two years ago...

Was there a RAIB report on this? What was the cause?

 

[GW43125]

What was the cause?

I seem to recall the bolts holding the bar in place came off.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Quite rightly so. If nothing else, if a passenger had been crossing between coaches at the time it happened they could well have been killed or seriously injured by falling out of the train.

At least down here in GWR land, it is pretty damn common for a 158 to be busy enough that people are standing in that area for a large part of their journey. Certainly going to make me rethink where I stand anyway!