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Laptops (etc) ban on certain air routes.
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Precisely. It would be relatively easy to hide a knife or device behind a laptop in a bag. By requiring its removal this is not possible.
As I said it's one of the few recent additional measures I actually agree with.
Howardh
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At Manchester Airport don't you have to take all the electronics out and put them in the tray?
DynamicSpirit
Established Member
Did you by chance write that on 21 December and only get around to posting it now?
A very intelligent putdown. I applaud your creativity.
Bletchleyite
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Yes, you do. You do at all UK airports.
Tim R-T-C
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Not really been following this. I'm flying Kurdistan to Vienna to London in April - kindle allowed or not?
Currently allowed. Watch this space.
I for one would not be happy about this, simply because I like to travel hand luggage only for the sheer convenience - arrive at airport 50 minutes before and go straight to security without check-in queue, plus straight out at the other end without waiting for baggage. Sometimes this has saved me an hour arriving at Manchester as I have caught an onward train with just a few minutes to spare.
Of course one could easily say that's just a minor inconvenience you'd have to accept if carrying a laptop, but I doubt those who travel frequently on business with laptops and light hand luggage (the ones you see who casually stroll up to the gate as the last passengers board, hammer away at their laptop throughout the trip and then spring up to be first off) would see it that way.
Of course one could easily say that's just a minor inconvenience you'd have to accept if carrying a laptop, but I doubt those who travel frequently on business with laptops and light hand luggage (the ones you see who casually stroll up to the gate as the last passengers board, hammer away at their laptop throughout the trip and then spring up to be first off) would see it that way.
If it happens on UK flights, could it encourage business passengers onto the rails for routes like Glasgow, Edinburgh, Newcastle, Leeds and Manchester to London? After all, the time in the departure lounge is now most certainly wasted when you can only work from your phone.
Manchester doesn't really have time for laptop work, most people on that route will be connecting, or at least aiming somewhere in west London, where there'd still be late time savings vs the train.
And these are massive "ifs" about laptops. I doubt it will even come to a point where we don't allow laptops in the cabin domestically. At some point a company will sell some snake oil detector that will be snapped up, even if the ban were extended to airports that don't have massive security holes.
And these are massive "ifs" about laptops. I doubt it will even come to a point where we don't allow laptops in the cabin domestically. At some point a company will sell some snake oil detector that will be snapped up, even if the ban were extended to airports that don't have massive security holes.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
Ooohh, snake oil on a plane!
Tim R-T-C
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So long as it is less than 100ml...
Apparently, it's targeted at one airport in particular, where screening of all electronic items is particularly lax... Istanbul. Perhaps though, they are bothered about it being actuated while the 'plane is airborne.
According to this rather long article in the Independent online:
According to this rather long article in the Independent online:
deltic
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zuriblue in post 49 summed it up - half baked measure that's so full of holes its ridiculous. US and UK cant agree on what routes/countries to be covered. Terrorists are obviously unable to take indirect routing - anyone remember Lockerbie and luggage in transit.
Never mind air freight, where items travel without any human accompaniment whatsoever. Remember the bombs disguised as printer cartridges (laser printer cartridges IIRC)?
And that's before dodgy baggage handlers come into play.
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I have a strong suspicion as to what exactly it is that they can't detect on these electronic devices through normal x-ray screening.
Not sure if I should say openly what it might be or not though?
There's no such thing as security through obscurity.
I'd assume that the people who are likely to do such a thing either already know, or if they don't they'll find out anyway. (And I highly doubt that a UK based railway forum will be their first port of call!).
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
OK - in that case... I suspect some kind of mechanism, probably activated by a manual software command, whereby the terrorists can deliberately trigger a short circuit of the battery while cruising along at 30,000 ft or whatever.
That's a possibility, but battery fires are more dangerous in the hold (where nobody can see/get to them) than they are in the main cabin.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
But equally it is a criminal offence to possess or publish "information which may be of use to terrorists".
With the tendency of recent attacks to be lone nutters, I think I wouldn't publish a vulnerability here if I thought there was any chance of it being used.
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Or set the laptop to unsuspend itself and run the command 2 hours after scheduled take off.
Or just manually short circuit a battery.
Or break a bottle of brandy over a camera battery and light it in the toilet, then use the glass shards as a weapon to distract the crew while the fire takes hold.
Or just manually short circuit a battery.
Or break a bottle of brandy over a camera battery and light it in the toilet, then use the glass shards as a weapon to distract the crew while the fire takes hold.
Like a train timetable. Or a map. Or google street view.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That is the slight issue with the law, but it's obvious that things like specific vulnerabilities (and stuff like the Anarchist's Cookbook) are the intention of it.
I agree. But posting a concept in broad strokes is different to the specifics of how to implement it.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I thought of an explanation that sort of fits with the known facts about the ban.
What if a terrorist managed to get a job in IT support at a multi-national in one of the countries in question? They could then potentially have access to devices brought in by UK/UK visitors under the guise of an essential software fix or whatever. The innocent visitor would then take the device back home on the plane.
What if a terrorist managed to get a job in IT support at a multi-national in one of the countries in question? They could then potentially have access to devices brought in by UK/UK visitors under the guise of an essential software fix or whatever. The innocent visitor would then take the device back home on the plane.
There's enough lithium ion fires on planes already to show what would happen - lots of swearing, some fire extinguisher, maybe a diversion, even if you managed to alter the laptop to explode, and only do so when the laptop was in the air
In the meantime we're stuffing these potential bombs in the hold.
FAA said:
edwin_m
Veteran Member
The scenario I was considering involved doctoring the laptop with something rather more explosive than a battery.
If you're thinking conventional explosives then current scanning methods are more than capable of detecting the majority of such threats. And again, a bomb in a cargo hold is at least as (if not more) likely to bring down an aircraft.
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