Laptops (etc) ban on certain air routes.

[Howardh]

Flights from certain countries - the closest being Morocco - have seen a ban on taking laptops and tablets into the cabin.

These are on relatively long-distance flights. Of course, there's the possibility that it could be extended to short haul too. So let's have a look at a possibility - Easyjot or Ryanair are "forced" to ban these items on trips such as Luton - near continent (and so on).

That means a businessman would have to put his tech in the hold. That's an additional cost (probably, depending on the airline) which for a day or two's trip he wouldn't have expected as his luggage would be small enough to go in the cabin.

Once handed over, the tech is out of his control, namely theft, loss or damage. Especially if it contains private company information (and our addresses, logins, receipts etc if it's a firm/bank we deal with)

An opportunity for the railways to capitalise if short-haul face these restrictions in future??

 

[Domh245]

I can't imagine how it'd go down on low-airlines where most passengers only have carry on luggage and putting luggage in the hold comes at additional cost (or if you are the last on the plane and they've run out of space!). Probably not very well.

 

[Howardh]

I can't imagine how it'd go down on low-airlines where most passengers only have carry on luggage and putting luggage in the hold comes at additional cost (or if you are the last on the plane and they've run out of space!). Probably not very well.

Seriously think the EU should come down with a law that states every passenger can have 5kg for free in the hold. That would be plenty for laptops, liquids and a GPS device to find out where your bag's gone.

 

[northwichcat]

Didn't, when the authorities first received intelligence of liquid explosives potentially being used, they force passengers to check in hand baggage with the exception of a few items which could be taken on in a clear plastic bag such as a book?

 

[Hornet]

Seriously think the EU should come down with a law that states every passenger can have 5kg for free in the hold. That would be plenty for laptops, liquids and a GPS device to find out where your bag's gone.

Can see the headlines now.

EU force Airlines to carry hold baggage for free.

Michael O'Leary slams proposals and threatens to sue EU for lost millions.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I think theres another fault with this idea. Airlines want tablets etc in the hold. Terrorist comes along with an explosive device that looks and feels like a netbook and bang goes craft, crew, pax and maybe if their lucky half an airport too. Great idea.

 

[jon0844]

I can't wait to see how the low cost airlines will deal with this, making people have to pay to put items in the hold.

It's fair to say that at some point they'll extend this to all flights. If there's a real threat, you surely can't be selective.

The BBC did show one plane last year that had a laptop bomb, but then pointed out the more likely scenario of a bomb in the hold - which is now where people are going to be asked to place things.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about the security of my gadgets than the chance of a bomb being smuggled on. And the extra cost.

It also throws a spanner in the works for the airlines buying new planes without screens because passengers brought their own. Now the only screens will be pretty small.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If the low cost carriers do take this up then I'll not be flying anywhere.

 

[Starmill]

Is baggage that goes in the hold considered any more secure because it can be checked more closely? Or is it simply that the passengers do not have access to it / historical?

 

[Merseysider]

To play devil's advocate, there isn't much offline you can do on a laptop that you can't do with a decent smartphone.

That said, I have to question how effective this is really going to be.

And what happens to those who have already purchased a ticket (thus forming a contract)? Must airlines now store these items free of charge in the hold, providing sufficient protection/packaging? Will refusal to carry free of charge items previously advertised in the Terms & Conditions as acceptable in free cabin baggage form a breach of contract?

If people want to kill other people, they'll always find a way. It's a game of cat and mouse to them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Flights from certain countries - the closest being Morocco - have seen a ban on taking laptops and tablets into the cabin.

These are on relatively long-distance flights

It has nothing to do with the length of the flights and everything to do with concerns about airport security in a few specific countries of origin, one of which has already had similar controversy in recent years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's fair to say that at some point they'll extend this to all flights.

It's not.

If there's a real threat, you surely can't be selective.

You can, particularly where putting a load of things with lithium batteries in the hold presents a potential fire risk. It's about security issues in specific countries.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didn't, when the authorities first received intelligence of liquid explosives potentially being used, they force passengers to check in hand baggage with the exception of a few items which could be taken on in a clear plastic bag such as a book?

Correct. Though this one is perhaps different because airlines are being required to enforce it on flights to the UK. Initially the liquid ban applied only to flights from the UK, as did the temporary restrictions you noted.

 

[Abpj17]

I think it's unlikely to apply to short haul - for the UK this would basically have to be from the rest of the EU and pretty close for rail to ever be considered an option. For business people time is precious. The optimistic practical reality is that business frequent flyers would be allowed to take their kit into the cabin.

In other news, the risk of batteries stored in the hold have been flagged - it's riskier fire-wise than storing in the cabin.

 

[muz379]

This seems like a slight knee-jerk reaction , surely just enhanced screening for any laptops being brought through as carry on luggage would be sufficient .

Seriously think the EU should come down with a law that states every passenger can have 5kg for free in the hold. That would be plenty for laptops, liquids and a GPS device to find out where your bag's gone.

As long as you are prepared for low cost fares to increase as a direct result of this

Can see the headlines now.

EU force Airlines to carry hold baggage for free.

Michael O'Leary slams proposals and threatens to sue EU for lost millions.

O'Leary wouldnt be daft enough to carry it for free , he would bump up the fares to cover the costs

But then do what he is good at which is draw public attention to why fares are increasing . Probably by saying something mildly rude .

I think it's unlikely to apply to short haul - for the UK this would basically have to be from the rest of the EU and pretty close for rail to ever be considered an option. For business people time is precious. The optimistic practical reality is that business frequent flyers would be allowed to take their kit into the cabin.

In other news, the risk of batteries stored in the hold have been flagged - it's riskier fire-wise than storing in the cabin.

But then for business people being able to do work whilst travelling is also seen as a norm in this day and age . so perhaps slightly longer Journey times but the ability to work whilst doing so would trump the time saving . Besides which how much time is lost at the airport now because the laptop will be inaccessible from the moment it is dropped off at the check in desk to the time it is picked up from baggage reclaim .

RE fire risk this was my initial thought .

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Lithium battery powered devices must be better off in the cabin, at least if they catch fire in the cabin it'll be detected quickly and the cabin crew can try and put it out with fire extinguishers.

 

[AM9]

Lithium battery powered devices must be better off in the cabin, at least if they catch fire in the cabin it'll be detected quickly and the cabin crew can try and put it out with fire extinguishers.

It may be that all electronic devices larger than a phone are banned from flights (cabin for security and hold for security and fire risk) inbound from prescribed countries at some point in the future. With the exception of certified medical essentials, that would mean everything including bored childrens' toys, adults tablets and 'essential' business laptops.
Safety and security should take precedence over convenience as far as the authorities are concerned.

 

[DarloRich]

All this whining - what s the world coming to when people cant survive for a few hours without a "device" :roll: Take a book.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The issue stems from a laptop bomb on a plane from Mogadishu last year.

The fact the bomb was given to the passenger by airport crew- airside- seems rather lost on Trump and May.

Now they'll just stick it in the hold where it can do more damage because nobody will be keeping an eye on it.

Airport staff are the weak link, not passengers. IS proved that in Sharm.

Still, it's all good security theatre to keep us plebs feeling frightened and grateful to our overlords.

 

[Tetchytyke]

All this whining - what s the world coming to when people cant survive for a few hours without a "device" :roll: Take a book.

It's not so much that I can't survive without my laptop- I'm normally watching a crappy film and getting drunk on cheap wine- it's more I don't want the baggage handlers to help themselves to it. That's the real reason why you're told to take valuable equipment on as hand luggage, it's so the airlines don't have to pay for them when they mysteriously disappear.

 

[DarloRich]

It's not so much that I can't survive without my laptop- I'm normally watching a crappy film and getting drunk on cheap wine- it's more I don't want the baggage handlers to help themselves to it. That's the real reason why you're told to take valuable equipment on as hand luggage, it's so the airlines don't have to pay for them when they mysteriously disappear.

if it goes walkies they will pay. Leave it at home if you are worried.

Personally, I think the government, if they have a credible threat, should have just gone for a total ban on anything bigger than a smart phone

 

[Bletchleyite]

if it goes walkies they will pay. Leave it at home if you are worried.

Personally, I think the government, if they have a credible threat, should have just gone for a total ban on anything bigger than a smart phone

Thus killing business travel. They are, it appears, being quite pragmatic.

 

[najaB]

Is baggage that goes in the hold considered any more secure because it can be checked more closely? Or is it simply that the passengers do not have access to it / historical?

Hold luggage is dropped subject to impact testing, rifled through subject to enhanced tactile inspection, and frequently lost often given diverse routing, so is less attractive as an attack vector.

 

[DarloRich]

Thus killing business travel. They are, it appears, being quite pragmatic.

From Lebanon and Jordan? I think the airlines will survive the loss of that highly lucrative business travel!

 

[edwin_m]

I think it's unlikely to apply to short haul - for the UK this would basically have to be from the rest of the EU and pretty close for rail to ever be considered an option. For business people time is precious. The optimistic practical reality is that business frequent flyers would be allowed to take their kit into the cabin.

Not quite so bad for Europe given that in my experience the legroom on Squeezy and Ryan isn't enough to open up a laptop anyway, and there may not be much time between the seat belt light going off and coming on again. Point taken re not being able to use it in the departure lounge though.

But could be a real pain on a long-haul flight, especially as it would also apply to any connecting flight if any leg of the journey passes through one of the airports in question (and if you say airside you are only screened at the origin airport). That, and the fact that UK and US have fingered a different set of airports for what must be the same threat, suggests that the logic behind this may be somewhat flimsy.

 

[northwichcat]

From Lebanon and Jordan? I think the airlines will survive the loss of that highly lucrative business travel!

Jordan seems to be a developing tourist market with more intrepid travelers.

 

[Howardh]

As I alluded to in the OP, it's not so much the current ban as what will happen when it inevitably extends.
I (used to) know a graphic designer - or something like that - whose whole work was kept on her laptop, hopefully she had back-up or cloud storage! - and she would travel to clients with it.
Just imagine the worry if your life's work was in the hands of baggage destroyers - you had to pay more for the privilege, and when you arrived at your client's address the laptop wasn't there....
Personally I would just about travel like that if I could put the darned thing in the hold myself, and take it out!
Q - is there anyone here who takes cards and £1000 cash abroad with them and would be happy to leave it in a holdall to be put into the hold?

 

[DarloRich]

Q - is there anyone here who takes cards and £1000 cash abroad with them and would be happy to leave it in a holdall to be put into the hold?

Nobody does that surely - just draw it out of a cash machine when you arrive. I would never think of taking currency abroad these days. Why bother?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just imagine the worry if your life's work was in the hands of baggage destroyers - you had to pay more for the privilege, and when you arrived at your client's address the laptop wasn't there....

If your life's work is on a single laptop with no separate backup that is not held in the same place as the laptop typically is stored, and is not carried with you, bluntly you are a fool.

Backup is important. The mind boggles as to how few businesses take it seriously.

 

[DarloRich]

If your life's work is on a single laptop with no separate backup that is not held in the same place as the laptop typically is stored, and is not carried with you, bluntly you are a fool.

Backup is important. The mind boggles as to how few businesses take it seriously.

if it isnt a security risk whack it on "the cloud" - easy access from any point with a web connection and no need to take your lappy