More 321/320s for ScotRail?

[Starmill]

318/320 on Inverclyde diagrams from Monday. Also on all Lanarks from GLC high level. Newton's, Neilston and Cathcart Circle diagrams aswell.

Where is the stock coming from? What affect does this have north of the Clyde?

No Idea and no idea! Just read it on notice at Glasgow Central earlier this evening.

I guess this is an overhang from the original plan that had 380s on E&G from Monday.

I guess the stock comes from the 7 320/4.

 

[Southsider]

The status quo is that not all services on-peak are six-car trains, some being operated by three-car trains.

If you get four-car trains, you can replace the three-car on-peak services with four-car ones. If you get three-car trains, you can extend the three-car on peak services to six-car ones.

The time which really matters is the peaks because that's when the largest amount of stock is in use. Sure, some four-car would be nice between peaks, but you can always run them as six-cars with better capacity in the peaks.

I get that and if there were enough of them to double up all the peak 3 car services it would make sense but there aren't.

 

[380101]

had another look at the notice today regarding the new diagrams. 318 and 320s to work Cathcart Circles and Newton's. All Lanark services from GLC high level to be 318 and 320. More 314s for Inverclyde diagrams. No 318 or 320s on Inverclydes as far as a I can see.

 

[Southsider]

had another look at the notice today regarding the new diagrams. 318 and 320s to work Cathcart Circles and Newton's. All Lanark services from GLC high level to be 318 and 320. More 314s for Inverclyde diagrams. No 318 or 320s on Inverclydes as far as a I can see.

Just out of interest, is there any reason for selecting 314s over 318s and 320s for Inverclyde?

 

[Clansman]

Just out of interest, is there any reason for selecting 314s over 318s and 320s for Inverclyde?

Probably because 314s already have recent previous diagrams along that route, so drivers will already be trained to work them as opposed to the 318s since they came off in 2010/11.

I could be wrong though.

 

[380101]

Just out of interest, is there any reason for selecting 314s over 318s and 320s for Inverclyde?

No Idea really. I don't work 314s, 318s or 320s. I imagine it's to do with train crews and what traction they sign. Not sure if Gourock depot sign anything else apart from 380 and 314.

 

[Kite159]

318s/320s would make for a better passenger experience on the Inverclyde line, solely because the doors don't automatically open at every stop.

 

[380gk]

No Idea really. I don't work 314s, 318s or 320s. I imagine it's to do with train crews and what traction they sign. Not sure if Gourock depot sign anything else apart from 380 and 314.

Gourock drivers only sign 380s and 314s.
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318s/320s would make for a better passenger experience on the Inverclyde line, solely because the doors don't automatically open at every stop.

All gourock services are timed as 314s as they have faster acceleration between stops. I agree though, would be better and more importantly, no almost an hour long train journey with no toilets!

 

[me123]

318s/320s would make for a better passenger experience on the Inverclyde line, solely because the doors don't automatically open at every stop.

Agree. Would be better for the route, whilst the 314s could be best utilised on the shorter Paisley Canal and Cathcart routes. With only 16 sets, they could be used exclusively on urban network leaving the Gourock route with (marginally) better stock.

Of course, if driver training's the issue then I can understand why that won't happen.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The status quo is that not all services on-peak are six-car trains, some being operated by three-car trains.

If you get four-car trains, you can replace the three-car on-peak services with four-car ones. If you get three-car trains, you can extend the three-car on peak services to six-car ones.

The time which really matters is the peaks because that's when the largest amount of stock is in use. Sure, some four-car would be nice between peaks, but you can always run them as six-cars with better capacity in the peaks.

Of course, if you introduce 4 car units you can still derive huge benefits. A busy (but not crush loaded) three car train can be extended to four carriages, which then frees up the three car set to double up elsewhere. I can think of quite a few services in Glasgow that were busy with three carriages, but didn't quite warrant six carriages (although things may well have changed).

The downside is that, unless you were to extend platforms, you're creating a micro fleet of four car trains that have to work in isolation. And that will be the problem that Scotrail has. Without the scope to run seven and eight car trains (which are only really possible on Ayrshire without SDO), a four car 321 would be of limited use.

 

[SC318250]

Do we know the additional 321 units that are to be converted to 320s? Or which operator they are likely to come from?

 

[380101]

Do we know the additional 321 units that are to be converted to 320s? Or which operator they are likely to come from?

they were only getting 7 as per the long standing plan. All coming from London Midland. SCOTRAIL and TS have a habit of announcing "new plans" every so often which in fact are really just the original plans they announced at the franchise commencement in 2015.

 

[D365]

Great Northern has another seven going spare (the remaining six are transferring to Greater Anglia), so if any, it would be these.

 

[northwichcat]

they were only getting 7 as per the long standing plan. All coming from London Midland. SCOTRAIL and TS have a habit of announcing "new plans" every so often which in fact are really just the original plans they announced at the franchise commencement in 2015.

You mean like DfT who've announced Manchester-Preston and Preston-Blackpool electrification around 5 times each time making it sound like a new announcement?

 

[380101]

You mean like DfT who've announced Manchester-Preston and Preston-Blackpool electrification around 5 times each time making it sound like a new announcement?

The only real new "news" was when they announced they were keeping an extra 13 class 170 DMUs. Everything else that has been mentioned in their "improvement" action plan is essentially what they were required to deliver as part of the franchise commitments.

All just good soundbites for the media and politicians to continuously reel out for the gullible public who don't know any better.

 

[route101]

Did the diagrams change?7
Seen 314 on cathcart circle

 

[NotATrainspott]

The only real new "news" was when they announced they were keeping an extra 13 class 170 DMUs. Everything else that has been mentioned in their "improvement" action plan is essentially what they were required to deliver as part of the franchise commitments.

All just good soundbites for the media and politicians to continuously reel out for the gullible public who don't know any better.

In the article it explicitly mentions the idea of 3 321s trains on top of the 7 320/4 conversions, so this does appear to be news. Unlike so many cascade proposals there really doesn't seem to be much to stop it happening. The 320/4 conversion programme has been proven, ScotRail could make use of more trains in the peak (as there are still plenty of 3 car services) and they would be able to operate alongside lots of other identical or similar trains. What gives the biggest credence to these ideas is that we know there's a huge surplus of 321s coming available in the next few years and there's nowhere near enough electrified suburban routes to absorb them. Most of these lines are in and around London but they're no longer good enough for this purpose. The few electrified services in and around Manchester, Leeds and Birmingham have already got their rolling stock mostly sorted. Only Glasgow can realistically make use of these extra units, and if they don't go up here they'll end up being scrapped.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If there were spare 321s they could go to LM to replace the unreliable 319s rather than be scrapped.

 

[SC318250]

320304 was operating on Cathcart lines yeaterday.

There were a few 380 operating on Cathcart Circle and there was a 6 car 380 on an am Circle

 

[JonathanH]

320304 was operating on Cathcart lines yeaterday.

There were a few 380 operating on Cathcart Circle and there was a 6 car 380 on an am Circle

320314 about to depart from Glasgow Central on the 1821 to Newton so definitely starting to appear on the Cathcart routes.