FGW 57/6 (and DRS 57/3)s Unreliability

[co-tr-paul]

306 is the current Sleeper extra loco.

 

[richw]

Experienced wheel spin this morning leaving st Austell on the down. Never experienced anything like it, felt the coach almost like it was jumping up and down!

 

[No Fault Found]

605 on first round trip since back from REVL repaint following bad nose/tree. normally the most reliable of the fleet...... . Main auxillary failed on SLEP 10601 and swapped for 10563, freshly repainted.

And I was going to post that now we have the fleet back to strength, we can be rid of 310...... !

No chance of being back to full strength anytime soon, engine parts for 57602 aren't being delivered until September!

 

[fgwrich]

No chance of being back to full strength anytime soon, engine parts for 57602 aren't being delivered until September!

What's up with 602 Now? I would presume the long lead time for parts is that their coming from Progress Rail (EMD) themselves then, rather than a supplier.

 

[No Fault Found]

What's up with 602 Now? I would presume the long lead time for parts is that their coming from Progress Rail (EMD) themselves then, rather than a supplier.

It was smoking badly. It's had all heads removed and some of the bores are scored and rings are chipped. It'll be having 12 new power packs (complete piston, cylinder, rod, head) to the tune of £60k.

EMD can't supply the parts until September at the earliest. Until then, it's sitting on the hard standing outside the heavy lift shop at Old Oak.

 

[CosherB]

With news that GWR have purchased two 57/3s outright, what future does this sub-class have with DRS? A number will remain for VTWC thunderbird duties, but does this transfer, along with 25 Class 68s on the books of DRS with more to come plus 10 Class 88s, mean that 57s in general will see less and less use with DRS? Carmine wraps due for a couple of 68s?

For that matter, does GWR see 57s on the beds beyond the medium term? When does their replacement become necessary (noting the 67s-on-the-beds story came to nothing a year ago)?

 

[richw]

With news that GWR have purchased two 57/3s outright, what future does this sub-class have with DRS? A number will remain for VTWC thunderbird duties, but does this transfer, along with 25 Class 68s on the books of DRS with more to come plus 10 Class 88s, mean that 57s in general will see less and less use with DRS? Carmine wraps due for a couple of 68s?

For that matter, does GWR see 57s on the beds beyond the medium term? When does their replacement become necessary (noting the 67s-on-the-beds story came to nothing a year ago)?

GWR have not purchased anything outright in this case.

Porterbrook have purchased them, and leased to GWR, just as the situation is with the other 4.
The extra 57s are needed for 387 pulls.

 

[fgwrich]

GWR have not purchased anything outright in this case.

Porterbrook have purchased them, and leased to GWR, just as the situation is with the other 4.
The extra 57s are needed for 387 pulls.

If that's the case, then these 57s have come full circle in their lives. Built for Porterbrook and leased to VT, Leased to NR, bought by DRS, re-purchased by Porterbrook for a move to the Greater Western Franchise.

 

[co-tr-paul]

The 57s will be used on the Riviera until AT LEAST 2020, hence most of the depot improvements at Long Rock. Wont rebuild a depot if getting rid of them... !

 

[PHILIPE]

1A40 last night slipped to a stand on Hemerdon Bank and subsequently 97L at Totnes. It had already lost 15 mins to Plymouth due rail conditions. Yahoo Group reports that 3 drivers were manually putting down sand on Bank in order to get it moving as Sanding gear on 57604 defective. Happy ending - Arrived Paddington 8E

 

[co-tr-paul]

I travelled from Cardiff yesterday and even HSTs were slipping in Devon and Cornwall in both directions. Extra sand is being carried in Riviera birds vans at moment... .

 

[richw]

I went to work at 0300 this morning and there was a heavy frost in the Plymouth area, I'm guessing that the frost if it had formed by then added to mushed leaves created the problem?

 

[leomartin125]

Looking at the amount of issues, I can see why Scotrail use 68's on their Fife Circle runs... If it is possible, could GWR lease some DRS 68's for use on the Sleeper in the next control period?

 

[CosherB]

Looking at the amount of issues, I can see why Scotrail use 68's on their Fife Circle runs... If it is possible, could GWR lease some DRS 68's for use on the Sleeper in the next control period?

Read post #399. After that, who knows.

Will DRS have four spare 68s by then? 67s could be an option too ....

 

[43096]

Read post #399. After that, who knows.



Will DRS have four spare 68s by then? 67s could be an option too ....

Reported elsewhere that GWR are looking at HST power cars for the sleeper. I would read nothing in to the 2020 comments as that could change: Porterbrook own the 57s and also a sizeable number of power cars that will have no home in the next couple of years, so there is a deal that could be done.

 

[221129]

Reported elsewhere that GWR are looking at HST power cars for the sleeper. I would read nothing in to the 2020 comments as that could change: Porterbrook own the 57s and also a sizeable number of power cars that will have no home in the next couple of years, so there is a deal that could be done.

Unlikely I would have thought.

 

[43096]

Unlikely I would have thought.

We'll see won't we?

It makes a lot of sense now that GWR are keeping some HSTs long term and it also addresses a number of issues:
- single point of failure of having one loco on the train removed.
- makes retention of crew knowledge much easier.
- removes a type of traction from the GWR fleet with benefits for maintenance and spares.
- addresses the issue of what to do once OOC closes and servicing transfers to Reading. Having power cars removes the need for light engine moves on the GWML.

 

[richw]

Reported elsewhere that GWR are looking at HST power cars for the sleeper. I would read nothing in to the 2020 comments as that could change: Porterbrook own the 57s and also a sizeable number of power cars that will have no home in the next couple of years, so there is a deal that could be done.

Incompatible wiring would make that prohibitively expensive.

 

[221129]

We'll see won't we?

It makes a lot of sense now that GWR are keeping some HSTs long term and it also addresses a number of issues:
- single point of failure of having one loco on the train removed.
- makes retention of crew knowledge much easier.
- removes a type of traction from the GWR fleet with benefits for maintenance and spares.
- addresses the issue of what to do once OOC closes and servicing transfers to Reading. Having power cars removes the need for light engine moves on the GWML.

I take it you have a source for this? Seeing as all the work for the sleeper stock is to be carried out at Long Rock, not to mention the amount of work required to make the powercars or stock compatible with each other?

 

[richw]

We'll see won't we?

It makes a lot of sense now that GWR are keeping some HSTs long term and it also addresses a number of issues:
- single point of failure of having one loco on the train removed.
- makes retention of crew knowledge much easier.
- removes a type of traction from the GWR fleet with benefits for maintenance and spares.
- addresses the issue of what to do once OOC closes and servicing transfers to Reading. Having power cars removes the need for light engine moves on the GWML.

We won't see it. Considerable sums are being spent bringing the existing stocks up to a high modern standard.

 

[43096]

I take it you have a source for this? Seeing as all the work for the sleeper stock is to be carried out at Long Rock, not to mention the amount of work required to make the powercars or stock compatible with each other?

As I said earlier, reported on another forum (by someone who tends to post reliable information). Note that I also said it was being considered.

Do you actually know what is involved in converting the stock? There's two ways of doing it:
1. A generator set in a coach or power car to supply the existing ETH equipment. Personally I'd put it in a coach, as it keeps the power cars standard with the rest of the fleet.
2. Convert coaches to 415V 3 phase AC. Not that difficult and it improves reliability as it removes the need for MA sets on the stock.

Both are technically do-able. In both cases, the stock needs jumper cables putting through to allow the power cars to talk.

No idea what your point about Long Rock is, as the stock would still be maintained there.

 

[co-tr-paul]

As many on here and another forum I post on know, my info can be up to 3 years in advance and I can say that the HST thought was there when considering the sleeper refurb but is NOT viable and won't be happening. Although the current situation is a joke, the current plan is being stuck to. Many of us say cancel and get brand new but hey, we are just staff/customers not pen pushers...... No HSTs, 68s,67s,50s37/4s etc. Except it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
......until the next NEW franchise requirents are announced (2024 at this rate??!).

 

[crewmeal]

If these engines are proving so unreliable why don't GWR invest in a more modern one such as a class 68?

 

[co-tr-paul]

In this instance, even HSTs are slipping. As posted above, the 57s are completing their journies almost on time. The last loco reliability issue was in the summer. Only two up journies this year have been replaced by hst due to loco issiues, and one of those was a DRS loco, plus 1 by St Ives tyre fire

 

[richw]

If these engines are proving so unreliable why don't GWR invest in a more modern one such as a class 68?

They're not unreliable, but in the event of an issue they get spoken more about because of what they are, and some people have an agenda against them it seems.
I travelled on the down daily from beginning of March until mid August, and only once was there an issue and that was due to Paddington derailment and it had an HST instead. Perfect reliability in those 5 months.

 

[PHILIPE]

If these engines are proving so unreliable why don't GWR invest in a more modern one such as a class 68?

For one thing as as has been pointed out several times already on the Forum, if DB locos were to be involved they would insist on their own drivers being used and this is not acceptable to GWR

 

[alexl92]

For one thing as as has been pointed out several times already on the Forum, if DB locos were to be involved they would insist on their own drivers being used and this is not acceptable to GWR

...68s are DRS though? Not saying that GWR should change tack, just to clarify.

 

[221129]

...68s are DRS though? Not saying that GWR should change tack, just to clarify.

Is it worth training all the required staff up for no real reason?

 

[CosherB]

Presumably, DRS and First have managed to sort out who drives the 68s for TPE, as an analogous situation?

 

[43096]

For one thing as as has been pointed out several times already on the Forum, if DB locos were to be involved they would insist on their own drivers being used and this is not acceptable to GWR

You know that, do you?

Who drives the 67s with ATW? Or the 90s hired to VTEC and Greater Anglia?