EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[TheGrandWazoo]

But the EU isn't a single country.........................YET!

It's a single trading bloc - that was the point of the EEC. Also, we negotiated the opt out from "ever closer union" so it wouldn't be a single country

You never came back on the haulage company point.......

 

[TheKnightWho]

It isn't and we aren't.




Well done for making a number of idiotic assumptions about Brexiters. You must be proud.



We're still in the EU and the consequences of Brexit remain to be seen.

Apart from that, good.

You'd be convincing me more if you didn't spend most of your post being offended...

And no, the consequences are playing out pretty much exactly as expected. Hiding behind the "long-term" is silly - we're all dead in the long-term, right?
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But the EU isn't a single country.........................YET!
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Accepted

It's very obvious you're just repeating what you heard from UKIP, and struggle to defend it when challenged.

 

[Gutfright]

And no, the consequences are playing out pretty much exactly as expected.

Consequences. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Traditionally, consequences are something that happen after an event. Do you accept that Brexit hasn't happened yet?

Hiding behind the "long-term" is silly - we're all dead in the long-term, right?

So you only ever make short-sighted decisions based on immediate gratification and never plan for the future?

That's fine. You do you.

But the people of Britain have chosen to do what's best for the country in the long term. Future generations will thank us.

 

[Harbornite]

Consequences. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Traditionally, consequences are something that happen after an event. Do you accept that Brexit hasn't happened yet?



So you only ever make short-sighted decisions based on immediate gratification and never plan for the future?

That's fine. You do you.

But the people of Britain have chosen to do what's best for the country in the long term. Future generations will thank us.

But there have been consequences for Britain's decision to leave.

 

[Gutfright]

But there have been consequences for Britain's decision to leave.

Nobody's denying that, but the consequences of Brexit remain to be seen as we haven't left yet.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Nobody's denying that, but the consequences of Brexit remain to be seen as we haven't left yet.

After the Brexit vote. I can't work out whether the pedantry is to absolve yourself of responsibility, or because it makes you feel clever? Either way it completely misses the point.
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So you only ever make short-sighted decisions based on immediate gratification and never plan for the future?

That's fine. You do you.

But the people of Britain have chosen to do what's best for the country in the long term. Future generations will thank us.

I was referencing something Keynes said. No-one is suggesting that only short-term decisions are good, but relying on long-term consequences whilst disregarding short-term ones on the everlasting promise that things will be alright in the end is naive at best, and wilfully damaging at worst.

The people have Britain were also lied to, but then it is quite funny to see lots of you running away from claims you were proudly making little more than a month ago. Funny how you say they'll thank us whilst in the same breath deny we know the consequences yet, too. :roll: I'm sensing a lot of wishful thinking and aggrandising rhetoric with little substance, yet again...

 

[Harbornite]

Nobody's denying that, but the consequences of Brexit remain to be seen as we haven't left yet.

There will be consequences though.

 

[Gutfright]

After the Brexit vote. I can't work out whether the pedantry is to absolve yourself of responsibility, or because it makes you feel clever? Either way it completely misses the point.

This seems to be a recurrent theme with you on these threads...

TheKnightWho: [lazy, inaccurate anti-Brexit slur]

Brexiter: Actually, that lazy, inaccurate anti-Brexit slur is lazy and inaccurate.

TheKnightWho: Oh, stop being pedantic.

Funny how you say they'll thank us whilst in the same breath deny we know the consequences yet, too.

Fair enough, you've got me bang to rights guv'nor.

I'll leave the psychic predictions to the remain side from now on.

There will be consequences though.

Yes. And they will happen in the future.

 

[TheKnightWho]

This seems to be a recurrent theme with you on these threads...

TheKnightWho: [lazy, inaccurate anti-Brexit slur]

Brexiter: Actually, that lazy, inaccurate anti-Brexit slur is lazy and inaccurate.

TheKnightWho: Oh, stop being pedantic.

What? You made an irrelevant point about the current consequences not technically being after Brexit, despite them having everything to do with it. What does that have to do with "lazy, inaccurate anti-Brexit slur"?

The self-victimisation from you really is astounding though. It does make me laugh when it comes from the people who always call others oversensitive. (And before you get all oversensitive yourself, I'm not always talking about you. )

It is quite frustrating when you, and others, concentrate on a side remark rather than the main point - making yourself out to be the poor victim does seem to take priority over good arguments, frankly.

Fair enough, you've got me bang to rights guv'nor.

I'll leave the psychic predictions to the remain side from now on.



Yes. And they will happen in the future.

Are you completely ignorant of what has been going on for the last month, or are you just desperately telling yourself that it won't last?

 

[Gutfright]

Are you completely ignorant of what has been going on for the last month, or are you just desperately telling yourself that it won't last?

You're the one with the PPE degree, so if you're telling me that it's mathematically impossible for the damage caused by the current period of uncertainty to be reversed post-Brexit I'll defer to your superior knowledge on the subject.

Oh wait, you don't have a degree in PPE do you? It's Politics and Philosophy, but not Economics, right?

Maybe that means that the damage caused by the current period of uncertainty can be reversed post-Brexit after all?

 

[TheKnightWho]

You're the one with the PPE degree, so if you're telling me that it's mathematically impossible for the damage caused by the current period of uncertainty to be reversed post-Brexit I'll defer to your superior knowledge on the subject.

Oh wait, you don't have a degree in PPE do you? It's Politics and Philosophy, but not Economics, right?

Maybe that means that the damage caused by the current period of uncertainty can be reversed post-Brexit after all?

No-one is saying it is mathematically impossible - however, the signs are not indicating that it will happen. Are you trying to argue that we have zero predictive powers at all?

I don't see why the exact nature of my degree is relevant to you - it is PPE, but the vast majority of people specialise in two.

 

[Hornet]

Nobody's denying that, but the consequences of Brexit remain to be seen as we haven't left yet.

Th UK didnt't fare to badly after this:-
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/sep/13/black-wednesday-20-years-pound-erm

 

[Gutfright]

No-one is saying it is mathematically impossible - however, the signs are not indicating that it will happen. Are you trying to argue that we have zero predictive powers at all?

We have the power to make predictions, certainly.

 

[Hornet]

No-one is saying it is mathematically impossible - however, the signs are not indicating that it will happen. Are you trying to argue that we have zero predictive powers at all?

I don't see why the exact nature of my degree is relevant to you - it is PPE, but the vast majority of people specialise in two.

PPE. Oh Dear.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/sep/23/ppe-passport-power-degree-oxford

 

[Gutfright]

Th UK didnt't fare to badly after this:-
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/sep/13/black-wednesday-20-years-pound-erm

A reduction in the value of the pound turned out to be beneficial, the UK economy actually recovered strongly and unemployment fell sharply.

Food for thought for those who think that the fall in the pound 'proves' that Brexit has already failed.

 

[TheKnightWho]

PPE. Oh Dear.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2013/sep/23/ppe-passport-power-degree-oxford

That's why I didn't call it that.
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A reduction in the value of the pound turned out to be beneficial, the UK economy actually recovered strongly and unemployment fell sharply.

Food for thought for those who think that the fall in the pound 'proves' that Brexit has already failed.

Evidence for these claims?

The FTSE100 and FTSE250 naturally rose with the falling pound because they're multinational companies, although the FTSE250 less so as it is more domestic than the former. Measures of domestic activity show it has fallen rapidly, and our growth estimate has been cut.

No clue where your unemployment claims are coming from.

 

[Gutfright]

Evidence for these claims?

The FTSE100 and FTSE250 naturally rose with the falling pound because they're multinational companies, although the FTSE250 less so as it is more domestic than the former. Measures of domestic activity show it has fallen rapidly, and our growth estimate has been cut.

No clue where your unemployment claims are coming from.

I was talking about the aftermath of black Wednesday.

 

[Mvann]

Just read huffington post article about article 50. Confirms that it was never meant to be used.

As for consequences and later generations thanking us, I'd wait and see what the EUs response to the S&P report I posted last night is.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

A reduction in the value of the pound turned out to be beneficial, the UK economy actually recovered strongly and unemployment fell sharply.

Food for thought for those who think that the fall in the pound 'proves' that Brexit has already failed.

Between July 1991 and Sep 1992, the unemployment rate rose from 9.2% to 9.7%. Following Black Wednesday, it then climbed to 10.7% by Jan 1993 and then only gradually fell until it reached it's former level (9.7%) by March 1994

I'm not asking you to predict the future but you might be expected to get historical fact right?

 

[Gutfright]

Between July 1991 and Sep 1992, the unemployment rate rose from 9.2% to 9.7%. Following Black Wednesday, it then climbed to 10.7% by Jan 1993 and then only gradually fell until it reached it's former level (9.7%) by March 1994

I'm not asking you to predict the future but you might be expected to get historical fact right?

Here's a graph showing UK unemployment from the day we left the ERM in 1992 to the day Tony Blair became PM in 1997. Still want to argue that the UK economy didn't recover from Black Wednesday?

 

[TheKnightWho]

Here's a graph showing UK unemployment from the day we left the ERM in 1992 to the day Tony Blair became PM in 1997. Still want to argue that the UK economy didn't recover from Black Wednesday?

Was Black Wednesday caused by a permanent shift in the economic foundation of the country?

The argument "the economy has grown after problems before" is quite generic...

 

[RichmondCommu]

A reduction in the value of the pound turned out to be beneficial, the UK economy actually recovered strongly and unemployment fell sharply.

Food for thought for those who think that the fall in the pound 'proves' that Brexit has already failed.

Have you ever considered the effects that a weak pound has on imports, inflation and interest rates?
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What about companies that currently only export to the USA that currently have to meet EU regs AND then bolt on more regs to suit the USA?

Can you name any of those companies?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Here's a graph showing UK unemployment from the day we left the ERM in 1992 to the day Tony Blair became PM in 1997. Still want to argue that the UK economy didn't recover from Black Wednesday?

Again, some selective amnesia. I too looked at the self same graph.

You said "A reduction in the value of the pound turned out to be beneficial, the UK economy actually recovered strongly and unemployment fell sharply."

My point was that you failed to acknowledge that a) it went up very sharply in the aftermath and b) it took a considerable time to get back down to the pre BW level

You could argue otherwise, but thankfully you that posted a graph.... :roll:

 

[Gutfright]

Again, some selective amnesia. I too looked at the self same graph.

You said "A reduction in the value of the pound turned out to be beneficial, the UK economy actually recovered strongly and unemployment fell sharply."

My point was that you failed to acknowledge that a) it went up very sharply in the aftermath and b) it took a considerable time to get back down to the pre BW level

What does the word "recovered" mean to you?

You seem to think that "recovered" and "immediately improved" mean the same thing. They don't.

 

[TheKnightWho]

What does the word "recovered" mean to you?

You seem to think that "recovered" and "immediately improved" mean the same thing. They don't.

We recovered from the Great Depression. Going to argue that was a good thing as well?

 

[NSEFAN]

We recovered from the Great Depression. Going to argue that was a good thing as well?

Perhaps it is seen like a forest fire. The dead wood is cleared and something new will rise from the ashes!

 

[Gutfright]

We recovered from the Great Depression. Going to argue that was a good thing as well?

Nope.

Going to argue that a rise in unemployment of 1 percentage point over a period of five months, followed by years of falling unemployment is in any way, shape or form comparable to the Great Depression?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

What does the word "recovered" mean to you?

You seem to think that "recovered" and "immediately improved" mean the same thing. They don't.

No, you just seemed to ignore any downside, like the steep climb in unemployment and consequent surge in house repossessions. Still, sure it was "a price worth paying"....

Oh, and that miserable 1% you mentioned actually equated to 250,000 people out of work

 

[Gutfright]

No, you just seemed to ignore any downside, like the steep climb in unemployment and consequent surge in house repossessions. Still, sure it was "a price worth paying"....

Oh, and that miserable 1% you mentioned actually equated to 250,000 people out of work

So you would have preferred a scenario where the number of unemployed people remained at 1992 levels throughout the entire nineties then?

Bit weird. I don't know why you love high unemployment so much, but each to their own I guess.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

So you would have preferred a scenario where the number of unemployed people remained at 1992 levels throughout the entire nineties then?

Bit weird. I don't know why you love high unemployment so much, but each to their own I guess.

I don't love it; my mother and my sister both were out of work at the time but you seem blasé about it. No worries about such stuff as it all worked eh... Price worth paying