Manchester Piccadilly to get ticket gates

[ag51ruk]

The glass wall at Piccadilly is finally being dismantled for this work, with sections missing between platforms 3 and 8 today

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I can see Ardwick suddenly becoming a very popular station!!

.....but only if they do something about that footbridge...

 

[Ianno87]

I don't really agree - access to Metrolink is on the concourse. I don't see why you couldn't just put barriers in the glass wall all the way along.
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I wonder why they're doing that? I had expected a single line of barriers under the departure board rather than per-platform and not doing 16-18; as most of the time only one VT is boarding at once it isn't going to save staff over the manual approach currently used. That said, commuters who like arriving in 16-18 and proceeding unimpeded through the side gate (me included) will no doubt be pleased - when it was closed for security reasons during the Olympics (now reopened) it was a nightmare getting out up the narrow ramp, so maybe that's why.

Or is 16-18 not considered worth it as it'll not be open much longer before being closed for HS2 redevelopment?



Preston would be very hard to do because of its layout without impeding what is de-facto the main entrance (Fishergate).

The lift in the Platform 13/14 "Satellite Lounge" goes down to Platform 12, and then down again to street level on Fairfield Street, by the far end of the taxi rank. One can leave the Metrolink station via the Ashton-end exit onto Fairfield St and then reach Platforms 12-14 by using this lift - a slightly shorter walk than via the main Metrolink entrance onto the station concourse.

 

[edwin_m]

.....but only if they do something about that footbridge...

When somebody checks the number of tickets sold between Ardwick and Piccadilly, they will probably conclude that with all those people using it the footbridge structure will be overloaded, and close it on safety grounds...

 

[thenorthern]

They have started removing the glass at Manchester Piccadilly ready for the installation of ticket gates.

Its a strange situation though as its managed by Network Rail the individual TOCs are responsible for ticket checks which means they are responsible for installing the ticket gates on the platforms they normally use.

 

[tom1649]

I'm not looking forward to Piccadilly concourse becoming a wind tunnel again like it was before the glass was put in. It was always bitterly cold in winter.

Doesn't restricting TOCs to certain platforms reduce flexibility in times of disruption? Are any trains booked to use Platform 12? I've never seen it used.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Are they also gating (or blocking off) the walkways between pairs of platforms i.e. between the buffer stops and the glass wall? Otherwise you just walk sideways and exit through the next set of glass doors!

Similarly are they gating various sections of the London end footbridge?

The proposals seems somewhat disjointed / uncoordinated. One TOC doing what is required of it by its franchise agreement, to the letter, seemingly without considering the bigger picture.

If you alight a 9 coach Pendolino exactly between first and standard class you are right by the London end footbridge anyway, just saying I know this as a result of tight connections between Virgin and TPE services from 13/14.

The current 'lift loophole' replaces the former 'stair loophole'. The entrance via steps to Fairfield Street, unmanned on the rare occasions I used it, off-peak, many years ago. Not to avoid having purchasing a ticket I add, merely because I was heading in that direction. Such is the change in the intervening years that I remember feeling guilty for using this entrance and not having my ticket checked!

 

[andyb2706]

I have to agree it does sound all a bit disjointed planning. One TOC wants to do this another one doesn't. It's a bit of a farce if you ask me.

Perhaps the easiest way to have done it is that the company that manages the station (in this case Network Rail) should pay to install the barriers on the station and then split the bill between the TOC's? Or am I just talking common sense there?

I'm not looking forward to a chilly concourse too.

 

[ag51ruk]

Are they also gating (or blocking off) the walkways between pairs of platforms i.e. between the buffer stops and the glass wall? Otherwise you just walk sideways and exit through the next set of glass doors!

Similarly are they gating various sections of the London end footbridge?

The proposals seems somewhat disjointed / uncoordinated. One TOC doing what is required of it by its franchise agreement, to the letter, seemingly without considering the bigger picture.

If you alight a 9 coach Pendolino exactly between first and standard class you are right by the London end footbridge anyway, just saying I know this as a result of tight connections between Virgin and TPE services from 13/14.

The current 'lift loophole' replaces the former 'stair loophole'. The entrance via steps to Fairfield Street, unmanned on the rare occasions I used it, off-peak, many years ago. Not to avoid having purchasing a ticket I add, merely because I was heading in that direction. Such is the change in the intervening years that I remember feeling guilty for using this entrance and not having my ticket checked!

The plans showed gates to stop you moving over to other platforms (same type of arrangement as Paddington) - they may also do the same on the footbridge but that wasn't included in the planning application.

I believe that either Northern or TPE had gating the remaining platforms as one of their franchise commitments, so that should follow.

Northern have been cracking down on the "lift loophole" with more regular checks at the street entrance (some by plain clothes inspectors)

 

[BurtonM]

The lift also stops on P12 which isn't barriered, as I found out once trying to get on a P12 Airport stopper by going through the 13/14 door. Slightly riskier, considering the proximity to the ticket Stasi though.

 

[Cletus]

Saw this tweet from Virgin at the weekend.

Automatic ticket gates are coming to @NetworkRailMAN starting August 16th, keep an eye out! #GateExpectations

 

[northwichcat]

The lift also stops on P12 which isn't barriered, as I found out once trying to get on a P12 Airport stopper by going through the 13/14 door. Slightly riskier, considering the proximity to the ticket Stasi though.

RPIs usually appear at the platform 12 doors when a train arrives but departing passengers don't usually get their tickets checked.

 

[WatcherZero]

I think theres a sheet of glass to go in where the yellow tape barrier is but otherwise looks completed.

 

[7griffinjack]

I think theres a sheet of glass to go in where the yellow tape barrier is but otherwise looks completed.

These London type barriers are much better than those horrible ones Northern use at Leeds etc. I wonder why there isn't a national standard for continuity purposes?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What type are in use at Leeds? I've only seen the above type in new installations (the older South East/London air-powered type are better still as they open more quickly).

 

[Starmill]

Leeds has S&B gates, the same as Wakefield Westgate, Bradford Interchange, Manchester Oxford Road and Manchester Victoria. The ones at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Huddersfield, Chester, Liverpool Central, James Street (etc) are Cubic gates.

 

[transmanche]

These London type barriers are much better than those horrible ones Northern use at Leeds etc. I wonder why there isn't a national standard for continuity purposes?

Do they have the Scheidt & Bachmann ones at Leeds? (They were installed at a number of stations by East Coast and are also used on the T&W Metro.) The first part of the name is well-earned. They are slow, seem to randomly reject valid tickets (and always for the reason 'ticket not valid at this location', even when it is) and the Metro ones apparently "can't" be programmed to accept NR tickets on inter-available routes.

 

[Starmill]

What type are in use at Leeds? ...

Leeds has S&B gates...

Do they have the Scheidt & Bachmann ones at Leeds? ...

That will be a yes then!

 

[greaterwest]

What type are in use at Leeds? I've only seen the above type in new installations (the older South East/London air-powered type are better still as they open more quickly).

These are Cubic's "E2" barriers. "E1" barriers are the old CTS design (the metal ones), also known as the LU design.

What do you mean by air-powered? I wasn't aware any part of them was air powered.

 

[northwichcat]

Leeds has S&B gates, the same as Wakefield Westgate, Bradford Interchange, Manchester Oxford Road and Manchester Victoria. The ones at Manchester Piccadilly, Stockport, Crewe, Stoke-on-Trent, Huddersfield, Chester, Liverpool Central, James Street (etc) are Cubic gates.

The ones at Chester don't close if someone inserts a valid ticket before they start to close - very useful for race days when hundreds of passengers are going through a small number of gates in quick succession.

 

[greaterwest]

Do they have the Scheidt & Bachmann ones at Leeds? (They were installed at a number of stations by East Coast and are also used on the T&W Metro.) The first part of the name is well-earned. They are slow, seem to randomly reject valid tickets (and always for the reason 'ticket not valid at this location', even when it is) and the Metro ones apparently "can't" be programmed to accept NR tickets on inter-available routes.

Some barriers don't recognise valid break of journey either, maybe that's why? I believe Cubic ones throw a "not valid" error in some instances of valid broken journeys.

 

[notlob.divad]

Some barriers don't recognise valid break of journey either, maybe that's why? I believe Cubic ones throw a "not valid" error in some instances of valid broken journeys.

I know the ones at Reading where not happy with me trying to go onto the station concourse to get a coffee beer whilst waiting to change trains there. This was a few years ago whilst the place was being ripped apart. Don't know what the barrier type was though.

Anyone know which type will be going in to the north Shed at Liverpool Lime Street?

 

[Starmill]

The ones at Chester don't close if someone inserts a valid ticket before they start to close - very useful for race days when hundreds of passengers are going through a small number of gates in quick succession.

I think most, or maybe all cubic gates will accept tickets in this way.

Some barriers don't recognise valid break of journey either, maybe that's why? I believe Cubic ones throw a "not valid" error in some instances of valid broken journeys.

The ones at Leeds are just programmed terribly. Often they won't accept local tickets, e.g. Bradford to Wakefield, but they will accept any old SVR, such as an Ebbw Vale Town to Mauldeth Road that let me in and out there several times (while I had tickets I was actually travelling with that were actually valid of course - they just didn't work the barriers).

 

[greaterwest]

I know the ones at Reading where not happy with me trying to go onto the station concourse to get a coffee beer whilst waiting to change trains there. This was a few years ago whilst the place was being ripped apart. Don't know what the barrier type was though.

Anyone know which type will be going in to the north Shed at Liverpool Lime Street?

Reading has a mixture. The original entrance retains its old (CTS design) Cubic barriers. The new entrances have Cubic E2 barriers.
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I think most, or maybe all cubic gates will accept tickets in this way.



The ones at Leeds are just programmed terribly. Often they won't accept local tickets, e.g. Bradford to Wakefield, but they will accept any old SVR, such as an Ebbw Vale Town to Mauldeth Road that let me in and out there several times (while I had tickets I was actually travelling with that were actually valid of course - they just didn't work the barriers).

Thankfully I don't think I've seen any S&B barriers in the South, and NR seem to be going with Cubic (a-la Birmingham NS & Manchester Picc) now. I don't know who installed the ones at Leeds or how long it's had them.

 

[LeylandLen]

Yes Preston needs a serious rebuild in my opinion before you can install gates. Too much wasted space, some could be used for retail, draught free waiting areas.Very bad acoustics for the public announcements doesn't help with an old high roof , not easy to change for people with luggage to/from Blackpool. Not sure who is responsible , Virgin or Network Rail ? Obviously its all down to ££££.

 

[Starmill]

Thankfully I don't think I've seen any S&B barriers in the South

Peterborough has them. I can't think of anywhere else.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes Preston needs a serious rebuild in my opinion before you can install gates.

Does it? I'm not sure. You could gate across the wall between the main ticket office and the station itself, a small remote monitored gateline (say 1 large and 1 small gate, or even just 2 small gates as the bridge isn't wheelchair accessible anyway) and TVM could go by the Fishergate Centre entrance, then there's the new entrance from the car park no doubt being built with that in mind.

It would mean walking around if wanting the ticket office, but it's not *that* much out of the way.
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These are Cubic's "E2" barriers. "E1" barriers are the old CTS design (the metal ones), also known as the LU design.

What do you mean by air-powered? I wasn't aware any part of them was air powered.

The barrier arms are retracted by compressed air on the LU design gates. That's why they move so quickly. On newer designs it's electric motors.

 

[greaterwest]

They certainly don't sound like it, and LU/new design barriers seem to be equally fast.

 

[PR1Berske]

Yes Preston needs a serious rebuild in my opinion before you can install gates. Too much wasted space, some could be used for retail, draught free waiting areas.Very bad acoustics for the public announcements doesn't help with an old high roof , not easy to change for people with luggage to/from Blackpool. Not sure who is responsible , Virgin or Network Rail ? Obviously its all down to ££££.

Preston has always been a challenge because of how many ways in and out a passenger can go, from the station and onto platforms. Gates across the slope would kill off the shop etc, gates can't fit across either footbridge without major reconstruction, gates on the subway slope would possibly cause health and safety issues. It's a big ask, and as you indicate, big money.

 

[urbophile]

I can see the point of ticket barriers for local/ metro type services. Assuming you are always going to have ticket checks on long distance trains what is the point of them there?