Manchester Piccadilly to get ticket gates

[richardio123]

An application has been put in by Virgin Trains to install ticket gates between platforms 3 and 7 at MAN

http://pa.manchester.gov.uk/online-...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NQ2U60BC6K000

09211/LO/2015/C2 | LISTED BUILDING CONSENT for the installation of Automatic Ticket Gatelines to Platforms 4, 5, 6 and 7.

this means taking the current glass wall out and installing the gates into it

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why only those platforms? Doesn't the footbridge with stairs to all platforms rather defeat the object? Other than that, a good thing: Ticket gates are much more polite and courteous than the knuckle-draggers that currently check tickets at Piccadilly!

 

[northwichcat]

Why only those platforms?

It's been paid for as part of the West Coast Direct Award and covers all platforms a Virgin service would depart from.

Platforms 10-14 would be difficult to cover without blocking off entrances/exits to Metrolink platforms and Fairfield Street.

Doesn't the footbridge with stairs to all platforms rather defeat the object?

If they put barriers at both ends of the platforms then it won't defeat the point.

 

[thenorthern]

I have noticed that Virgin Trains staff are always checking tickets at Piccadilly now on Platforms 6 and 7. They must be getting loads of revenue as whenever I arrive on the 08:28 train from London Euston there is normally a queue going into several hundred passengers who don't have a ticket which is common for many other arrivals.

I am surprised though that Northern Rail isn't applying to put barriers in at Piccadilly but they may be staying with their manual inspections.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

There's a timetable for gating WCML Virgin stations in the July Modern Railways (p71):
August: Stockport
September: Coventry, Euston P1-3, Crewe, Rugby
October: Birmingham International
November: Stoke
December: Manchester Piccadilly
February: Euston P4-7 and P12-15

Warrington BQ, Wigan NW and Preston are not being done.

 

[WatcherZero]

Cant say why at Warrington, Wigan the corridor is too narrow for gates, Preston I presume as the station is to open to effectivley barrier?

Piccadilly will in future get gates seperating the 13/14 lounge from rest of the station as well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Cant say why at Warrington, Wigan the corridor is too narrow for gates, Preston I presume as the station is to open to effectivley barrier?
Piccadilly will in future get gates seperating the 13/14 lounge from rest of the station as well.

Other VT stations not mentioned are Wolverhampton, Stafford, and Lancaster-Carlisle.
Maybe gates have crept in there without me noticing.

 

[northwichcat]

August: Stockport

Do I take it platform 0 wouldn't be included at Stockport? If it is then I'll be doubtful of the timescale as it would need the ticket office and stairs to platform 0 and the car park both relocating.

 

[the sniper]

Other VT stations not mentioned are Wolverhampton, Stafford, and Lancaster-Carlisle.
Maybe gates have crept in there without me noticing.

Wolves will get done, but only when the station is rebuilt. I'm not sure what the time frame for this is though.

 

[thenorthern]

I still can't see how they are going to do Stoke-on-Trent.

 

[thealexweb]

Why don't VTWC remove the glass wall along the train shed's entire length and have ticket barriers along the train shed's entire length with all other ticket checking points removed.

Stopping PTE customers from walking near the long distance trains has always been a bit of a non-starter. It is unenforceable as guards cannot even stop anyone with the £5.20 GM Rail Rover as they could claim they are travelling to Stockport on one of long distance services.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's been paid for as part of the West Coast Direct Award and covers all platforms a Virgin service would depart from.

Platforms 10-14 would be difficult to cover without blocking off entrances/exits to Metrolink platforms and Fairfield Street.

I don't really agree - access to Metrolink is on the concourse. I don't see why you couldn't just put barriers in the glass wall all the way along.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

February: Euston P4-7 and P12-15

I wonder why they're doing that? I had expected a single line of barriers under the departure board rather than per-platform and not doing 16-18; as most of the time only one VT is boarding at once it isn't going to save staff over the manual approach currently used. That said, commuters who like arriving in 16-18 and proceeding unimpeded through the side gate (me included) will no doubt be pleased - when it was closed for security reasons during the Olympics (now reopened) it was a nightmare getting out up the narrow ramp, so maybe that's why.

Or is 16-18 not considered worth it as it'll not be open much longer before being closed for HS2 redevelopment?

Warrington BQ, Wigan NW and Preston are not being done.

Preston would be very hard to do because of its layout without impeding what is de-facto the main entrance (Fishergate).

 

[jonesy3001]

Didn't piccadilly have barriers before the revamp and why didn't they put them back in?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didn't piccadilly have barriers before the revamp

No, it didn't.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I still can't see how they are going to do Stoke-on-Trent.

Planning / Listed Building application/s submitted recently.

A new entrance is planned in disused buildings on Platform 2 - the blank wall facing you as you leave the platform and head towards the stairs - barriers in that new space, along with a retail unit (with doors either side of the barrier line :roll: hopefully one is only a fire escape).

The existing concourse by platform 1 is shuffled around to create circulation space at the top of the stairs. Not sure it's big enough myself but I am sure the experts have done their calculations and no-one will be queuing up the stairs like they used to at Man Pic.

Basically the ticket machines are re-located nearer to the ticket office.

One issue requiring clarification was, again, the two entrances to Pumpkin which conveniently bypass the proposed barrier line.

 

[Senex]

I have noticed that Virgin Trains staff are always checking tickets at Piccadilly now on Platforms 6 and 7. They must be getting loads of revenue as whenever I arrive on the 08:28 train from London Euston there is normally a queue going into several hundred passengers who don't have a ticket which is common for many other arrivals.

I hope they're separating out those who don't have a ticket from those who do and getting the latter through as fast as possible. What's the point of saving a few minutes on London-Manchester running times if you then have lengthy and slow-moving queues to get off the platform (and a queue of several hundred must be very slow)?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

No, it didn't.

There were manual ticket checks from a limited number of booths though, everyone being funnelled through those. That arrangement became impossible with the retail plaza layout.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have noticed that Virgin Trains staff are always checking tickets at Piccadilly now on Platforms 6 and 7. They must be getting loads of revenue as whenever I arrive on the 08:28 train from London Euston there is normally a queue going into several hundred passengers who don't have a ticket which is common for many other arrivals.

And yet, these individuals still try to travel without buying before boarding at those small unstaffed and ticket machine less halts known as Milton Keynes, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield and Stockport!

Presumably, if all this previously lost revenue is now being captured, leading to increased profitability for Virgin WC, we can look forward to a fares cut next January?

 

[ag51ruk]

I don't really agree - access to Metrolink is on the concourse. I don't see why you couldn't just put barriers in the glass wall all the way along.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are still hopes that Northern will agree to this - otherwise not much point as the circulating area on the train side of the glass wall will be fully accessible to allow catering trolleys easy access from the DHL depot on platform 1 so people will just walk out of a different exit

I wonder why they're doing that? I had expected a single line of barriers under the departure board rather than per-platform and not doing 16-18

Because that would block access to the retail units at the top of the ramps and the toilets

 

[DJH1971]

Other VT stations not mentioned are Wolverhampton, Stafford, and Lancaster-Carlisle.
Maybe gates have crept in there without me noticing.

They also didn't mention Runcorn.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TBecause that would block access to the retail units at the top of the ramps and the toilets

There would be room (just!) to put a barrier down the middle. But the toilets being in the ticketed area is hardly unusual, nor is having some retail there.

 

[snail]

There were manual ticket checks from a limited number of booths though, everyone being funnelled through those.

Yes, I remember that. Similar to the setup at Liverpool Lime Street but covering only 1 or 2 platforms per booth.

 

[northwichcat]

Presumably, if all this previously lost revenue is now being captured, leading to increased profitability for Virgin WC, we can look forward to a fares cut next January?

Unless people buy the cheapest tickets that gets them through the barriers instead of a valid ticket for their journey.

 

[Elecman]

Unless people buy the cheapest tickets that gets them through the barriers instead of a valid ticket for their journey.

I can see Ardwick suddenly becoming a very popular station!!

 

[HowardGWR]

Unless people buy the cheapest tickets that gets them through the barriers instead of a valid ticket for their journey.

Well clearly that sort would not have previously bought a ticket at all, so at least the revenue will be increased by all those Stockport tickets now to be purchased. It's probably thus worthwhile just having TTIs south of Stockport and not bothering from there north to Manchester, once the barriers go in.

 

[thenorthern]

In theory now anyone the wrong side of the barrier without a ticket arriving on a Virgin Train will have breached the barriers at the station which they got on with the exception of people who have lost their ticket. From what I can see Wilmslow isn't gates although a revenue check is normally in place however there aren't any checks at Tamworth or Lichfield Trent Valley although I don't think that this should be much of an issue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unless people buy the cheapest tickets that gets them through the barriers instead of a valid ticket for their journey.

This is why I don't understand the plan for Euston.

There is a benefit to gating the lot under the departure board. This would be a staff cost saving - you'd have the same number of staff that presently man the gates on 8-11 but for all platforms. Additionally, the barriers would have a safety benefit of controlling the Euston scrum a bit.

There isn't, to me, a benefit to gating each set of platforms separately. You will need the same number of staff as for a manual check, and singles to South Hampstead and/or Harrow and Wealdstone will become rather popular.

 

[edwin_m]

This is why I don't understand the plan for Euston.

There is a benefit to gating the lot under the departure board. This would be a staff cost saving - you'd have the same number of staff that presently man the gates on 8-11 but for all platforms. Additionally, the barriers would have a safety benefit of controlling the Euston scrum a bit.

There isn't, to me, a benefit to gating each set of platforms separately. You will need the same number of staff as for a manual check, and singles to South Hampstead and/or Harrow and Wealdstone will become rather popular.

Is it so they can perpetuate the practice of only letting passengers onto the platform 2min before the train is due out?

Wouldn't it also be the other way round - separate gates for the long distance platforms could be programmed not to accept short distance tickets.

 

[Bevan Price]

In theory now anyone the wrong side of the barrier without a ticket arriving on a Virgin Train will have breached the barriers at the station which they got on with the exception of people who have lost their ticket. From what I can see Wilmslow isn't gates although a revenue check is normally in place however there aren't any checks at Tamworth or Lichfield Trent Valley although I don't think that this should be much of an issue.

There could also be passengers who changed trains at Stockport, e.g. passengers off Chester/Northwich line services that terminate at Stockport, plus maybe some people whose trains run to Piccadilly platforms 13/14, but who change at Stockport to catch a train arriving at the main part of Piccadilly (platforms 1 - 12).

 

[kevconnor]

I am a frequent traveller down the mid Staffordshire line travelling from Manchester via stoke, the current timings mean it is normally a virgin train that I catch to and from stoke seeing a conductor on the Manchester bound services are as rare as hens teeth.

 

[JonathanH]

Is it so they can perpetuate the practice of only letting passengers onto the platform 2min before the train is due out?

Wouldn't it also be the other way round - separate gates for the long distance platforms could be programmed not to accept short distance tickets.

Indeed there is quite a strong argument for gatelines *within* major interchange stations to catch people interchanging without tickets, especially where the nearby stations aren't gated.

In the case of Manchester, this might catch, say, someone travelling from Ashburys to Eccles across Piccadilly and many other similar flows.

So, I would gate 1-3, 4-7, 8-12 separately and put barriers on the access to 13/14 from both the footbridge, the travelator and the lift access (and if that means that people have to pass more than one gateline, so be it).

At Euston, you could have barriers to enter each part of the station *AND* the current manual checking at the doors to each platform. This is totally appropriate to ensure that the right ticket has been purchased.