Watching TV on the Train

[DaleCooper]

Now that many people are able to watch live TV on their laptop/phone/tablet do the TOCs or NR have TV licences to cover that activity? I ask because a licence relates to an address or premises where the broadcast is received rather than an individual.

 

[maniacmartin]

I'm pretty sure that the individual is the one who commits the offence though, not the owner of the address

 

[gimmea50anyday]

As an individual you are covered by your own license for temporary tv reception such as on your mobile device or in a caravan/tent etc. you wouldnt however be covered in say a student let or digs which is considered a permanent address

if you are not watching live broadcast, no license is required. catchup tv or on demand services are not considered to be live broadcasts. Wether the train wifi will give you the bandwidth is another matter
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I'm pretty sure that the individual is the one who commits the offence though, not the owner of the address

In any offence the individual has to be identified and named to cover a premises. If there is no name on the premises the licence cannot be held by the premises alone. Capita cannot take "the occupier" to court. The only evidence they can rely on is an individuals own admission at the door of their own house. No contact, no contract.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Now that many people are able to watch live TV on their laptop/phone/tablet do the TOCs or NR have TV licences to cover that activity? I ask because a licence relates to an address or premises where the broadcast is received rather than an individual.

An interesting point. Provided the device is running off its own internal batteries their own licence covers it. But if plugged in technically not.

I can't see any enforcement as likely, though.
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As an individual you are covered by your own license for temporary tv reception such as on your mobile device or in a caravan/tent etc. you wouldnt however be covered in say a student let or digs which is considered a permanent address

Actually, you are, provided the device is powered using its own internal batteries. It's permitted to use it in a caravan as a mobile dwelling even if plugged in, though - so I guess a train might be similar?

 

[DaleCooper]

I can't see any enforcement as likely, though.

Certainly not by the TOCs and the TV Licensing Agency is too busy harassing those with no TV and single parent families who are an easy touch.

Just found this on the TV Licensing website:

Your business could well have lots of visitors during the normal working day. The general rule is that if staff, customers or visitors watch live TV on your premises, your business needs to be covered by a TV Licence.

 

[transmanche]

It's all a moot point as IME you'll find sites such as iPlayer blocked anyway - as there just isn't enough bandwidth for everyone to stream tv!

 

[route:oxford]

Just found this on the TV Licensing website:

Your business could well have lots of visitors during the normal working day. The general rule is that if staff, customers or visitors watch live TV on your premises, your business needs to be covered by a TV Licence.

That clarifies that then. There is no way that railway rolling stock could be reasonably described as premises.

 

[Temple Meads]

I swear this forum has something of an obsession with TV licensing...

 

[DaleCooper]

That clarifies that then. There is no way that railway rolling stock could be reasonably described as premises.

Could it not? How about the permanent way?

I would guess that buffet cars would be considered as premises where food is sold, served or prepared.

 

[greatkingrat]

That clarifies that then. There is no way that railway rolling stock could be reasonably described as premises.

Agreed. Stations could potentially require a license though, eg people sitting in a first class lounge watching TV?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed. Stations could potentially require a license though, eg people sitting in a first class lounge watching TV?

Most likely they already have one, as many such lounges have a TV anyway.

 

[Mojo]

It's all a moot point as IME you'll find sites such as iPlayer blocked anyway - as there just isn't enough bandwidth for everyone to stream tv!

Do people still use crappy on-train wifi? It's quicker to connect to my own 3G/4G than faff about with wifi.

 

[jon0844]

I always use mobile data. Given I have no limit and speeds of up to 50Mbps, why use the Wi-Fi - unless the train itself is blocking my phone signal (390 looking at you).

 

[westv]

I always use mobile data. Given I have no limit and speeds of up to 50Mbps, why use the Wi-Fi - unless the train itself is blocking my phone signal (390 looking at you).

How much does that cost a month? Any tethering limit?

 

[dgl]

You can get unlimited 4g (although no tethering allowed) on 3 payg for £15 a month (topping up £15 and buying the £15 bundle), you can even use (iirc) up to 32gb in any feel at home country. Been using it all the time in paris/Disneyland this week and it's been great not worrying about data/calls/text charges

 

[transmanche]

You can get unlimited 4g (although no tethering allowed) on 3 payg for £15 a month (topping up £15 and buying the £15 bundle), you can even use (iirc) up to 32gb in any feel at home country. Been using it all the time in paris/Disneyland this week and it's been great not worrying about data/calls/text charges

I have the 3 SIM-only £17/month plan, which as well as the unlimited 4G includes a 4GB tethering allowance.

 

[westv]

I prefer browsing on my tablet rather than my phone so I use 3 10GB 3G £15 a month.

 

[PermitToTravel]

I'm paying £12.90/month for unlimited data on 3, and I've used a lot more than 32GB abroad in a week without charge

 

[jon0844]

How much does that cost a month? Any tethering limit?

£15 a month. Unlimited data and unlimited tethering, although Three suggests a limit of 1000GB per month - and I never come anywhere near it.

I will be moved off the plan before the end of the year though, and new plans are still unlimited with capped at 8GB for tethering.
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You can get unlimited 4g (although no tethering allowed) on 3 payg for £15 a month (topping up £15 and buying the £15 bundle), you can even use (iirc) up to 32gb in any feel at home country. Been using it all the time in paris/Disneyland this week and it's been great not worrying about data/calls/text charges

I was at Disneyland Paris in early May and would have used more data if Three didn't block video streaming (although you can get around that with a VPN). It's not quite 'at home'.

 

[Agent_c]

As an individual you are covered by your own license for temporary tv reception such as on your mobile device or in a caravan/tent etc. you wouldnt however be covered in say a student let or digs which is considered a permanent address

I think the line is a bit weird. A portable TV (laptop) that runs off battery is okay, but as soon as you plug in the AC adaptor, its running off the mains and subject to a license.

And of course you only need a license at all for "TV as it is broadcast live" so unless you're watching the current live channel stream, you're fine in any case

 

[redbutton]

Another interesting one that came up was in the context of my depot's messroom. It's located within the premises of a NR-operated station, and NR has a TV licence to cover the station premises, so would that cover us as well?

The answer from TVL was no, we need our own licence. I'm not so sure about that one.

 

[DaleCooper]

And of course you only need a license at all for "TV as it is broadcast live" so unless you're watching the current live channel stream, you're fine in any case

That's right, the current TV licence system has been made obsolete and absurd by technological advances, many of which have been promoted by the BBC.

 

[jon0844]

Hence why the system needs to change. A lot more people are watching on demand these days (for most programmes it makes more sense), but I suspect that people who say they're only watching on demand will at least once tick the box to say they've got a licence to watch something live.. and that's a problem.

 

[Agent_c]

Hence why the system needs to change. A lot more people are watching on demand these days (for most programmes it makes more sense), but I suspect that people who say they're only watching on demand will at least once tick the box to say they've got a licence to watch something live.. and that's a problem.

Completely off topic I know, but it strikes me the obvious solution is an "internet license". The entire TVLA could be made redundant at a stroke if collection was the responsibility of your ISP.

 

[transmanche]

Completely off topic I know, but it strikes me the obvious solution is an "internet license". The entire TVLA could be made redundant at a stroke if collection was the responsibility of your ISP.

It's pretty much what they already do in some European countries...

 

[Stats]

An interesting point. Provided the device is running off its own internal batteries their own licence covers it. But if plugged in technically not.

You're home TV license covers you when plugged in on a train too.

From TV Licensing website: www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/technology--devices-and-online-top8

There are a few devices listed above that can be powered solely by their own internal batteries, and your home TV Licence will usually cover you to use these to watch live TV away from home. However, if you plug one of these devices into the mains and use it to watch live TV away from home, you need to be covered by a separate TV Licence at that address (unless you’re in a vehicle or vessel like a train, car or boat). This is a legal regulation governing TV Licensing.

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Another interesting one that came up was in the context of my depot's messroom. It's located within the premises of a NR-operated station, and NR has a TV licence to cover the station premises, so would that cover us as well?

The answer from TVL was no, we need our own licence. I'm not so sure about that one.

A business's TV License does not cover parts of a premises sublet to another business.

 

[jon0844]

Something needs to be done.

If revenues fall drastically, the quality of BBC output will plummet. Yes people can argue it already has, but it would definitely get a LOT worse.

On Demand is the future of television for all but news, and even news is now being replaced by some with social media. Maybe not a trustworthy source a lot of the time, but it's not stopping people.

Those On Demand shows still need to be funded.

I'm actually quite surprised anyone thought that on demand content from the BBC shouldn't be treated the same as Live TV, with the relevant terms/laws revised as necessary.

 

[yorksrob]

It would be hard to find someone who doesn't ever use any BBC content be it tv, radio, Internet or catch up. Perhaps it's time for a ring-fenced supplement to general taxation.

 

[fairysdad]

Completely off topic I know, but it strikes me the obvious solution is an "internet licence". The entire TVLA could be made redundant at a stroke if collection was the responsibility of your ISP.

Would the money go to the right people though? At least with the TV Licence as it is, you know that the money is going either to the BBC for programmes or R&D, or to public communication infrastructure as a whole. I doubt an ISP would be willing to pass on some of their subscription charges to the BBC or the government, and bear in mind that this would be *all* ISPs *including* mobile phone operators who have by now got quite a significant (although not a high) market share of Internet access. I personally think that the TV Licence model is probably the better one out there for this sort of thing, even though it is not perfect, and even if the name is a bit of a misnomer.

But, as you say, this is getting somewhat off-topic!

 

[Agent_c]

Would the money go to the right people though? At least with the TV Licence as it is, you know that the money is going either to the BBC for programmes or R&D, or to public communication infrastructure as a whole. I doubt an ISP would be willing to pass on some of their subscription charges to the BBC or the government, and bear in mind that this would be *all* ISPs *including* mobile phone operators who have by now got quite a significant (although not a high) market share of Internet access.

They already do pass part of the subscriber revenue straight to the government - VAT.