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Watching TV on the Train

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mirodo

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I have the 3 SIM-only £17/month plan, which as well as the unlimited 4G includes a 4GB tethering allowance.

I'm on the same plan. With a view to using it to watch the Ashes in the office, this morning I tried a quick 5 minute test to see how much data is used to stream Sky Go on my iPad (tethering to my iPhone).

1GB an hour! :o
 
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westv

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Is 4G of any use when travelling by train outside of the cities.
 

jon0844

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4G is rolling out pretty quick, but it will probably be the end of next year before you can consider 4G coverage to be fairly seamless.

But 800MHz 4G is very good for rural coverage, albeit with slower speeds.
 

infobleep

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Is 4G of any use when travelling by train outside of the cities.
I find 4G isn't always that great on O2 when travelling by train within the cities, never mind outside them.

It may be a combination of O2, my Google Nexus 5 mobile and the Lollipop Android system that is chasing the poorer reception.

As for train WiFi, I reckon about 75% of the time I can't login to the WiFi on South West Trains 444s. I try ringing Nomad to report it but either u have no reception or I get cut off during the call due to yet another black spot.

One evening I was able to connect to the WiFi but with hardly anyone on the train the speeds were terrible. Dread to think what they would be like with everyone on the train.

Back on topic, I asked this question earlier this year and was told the the power sockets on a train wouldn't be classed as mains electricity.
 
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westv

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4G is rolling out pretty quick, but it will probably be the end of next year before you can consider 4G coverage to be fairly seamless.

But 800MHz 4G is very good for rural coverage, albeit with slower speeds.
So, come 2017, I should be able to travel from Kings X to Hull with 100% 4G - apart from dead spots like tunnels.
 

infobleep

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So, come 2017, I should be able to travel from Kings X to Hull with 100% 4G - apart from dead spots like tunnels.
Depends who your service provider is I reckon. If it's O2, no chance in my opinion.
 

Starmill

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Do people still use crappy on-train wifi? It's quicker to connect to my own 3G/4G than faff about with wifi.

Because you will always have a signal and everyone has an unlimited data package ;)

Trust me if you were traveling from London to Glasgow you'd appreciate the WiFi (on post-upgrade Pendo at least, it's practically useless on the pre-upgrade ones).
 

talltim

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You can't broadcast on the internet anyway, only multicast and unicast. Any broadcasts would get stopped at the first router. So even if you are watching something live via the Internet it's not a broadcast.
 
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infobleep

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Well I find 3 seems to have the best 3g service on the route.
Which is good to hear if 3 do take over O2, as they would like to. Just one caveat, I'd like the customer service to be just as good as it is now. I don't know what 3 are like for customer service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
O2 do have a license requirement to provide something like 99% coverage
Does that include railway lines?
 

14xxDave

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From the TV Licensing website:

"If you watch or record live TV online, on any device, you need to be covered by a TV Licence.
That includes using any online live TV service providing programmes over the internet, e.g. on a website or through an app or Smart TV. Some of the most popular services are BBC iPlayer, ITV Player, Channel 4 Watch Live, Sky Go, Virgin Media, BT Vision, Apple TV, Now TV, YouTube, Roku and Amazon Instant Video."

This is interesting as it used to be that you needed a TV license if you had equipment that was capable of recieving live broadcast signals, even if you didn't use it.

D.
 

Agent_c

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Which is good to hear if 3 do take over O2, as they would like to. Just one caveat, I'd like the customer service to be just as good as it is now. I don't know what 3 are like for customer service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Does that include railway lines?

The specific wording is "99% of the population", so I think that only gets them a get out clause on places like the highlands.
 

PermitToTravel

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You can't broadcast on the internet anyway, only multicast and unicast. Any broadcasts would get stopped at the first router. So even if you are watching something live via the Internet it's not a broadcast.

Pedant :D

Broadcasts for the purposes of the TV licensing requirements are obviously not the same as TCP/IP broadcasts
 

infobleep

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The specific wording is "99% of the population", so I think that only gets them a get out clause on places like the highlands.
Does it mean perfect reception. There are places where the reception works some of the time but the rest of the time it doesn't. I don't mean where temporary faults occur but all the time it'd good some periods and bad others.
 

Agent_c

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Does it mean perfect reception. There are places where the reception works some of the time but the rest of the time it doesn't. I don't mean where temporary faults occur but all the time it'd good some periods and bad others.

In means "Indoor coverage". Im sure there's allowance for unexpected faults.
 

jon0844

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So, come 2017, I should be able to travel from Kings X to Hull with 100% 4G - apart from dead spots like tunnels.

Well, EE hopes to have 4G available to 98% population by the end of THIS year, but of course population will mean many dead spots in rural areas (like railway lines) but with the introduction of 800MHz on EE (and Three) later this year and early next, I expect you'll see a huge transformation.

VoLTE (also coming this year) will mean voice can be carried over 4G, and that will break the current requirement that there's always 2G or 3G to fall back to for voice. Without that requirement, in theory the current 4G service can be turned up in power - as the current footprint has to fall within existing coverage. Many sites are therefore on a much lower power level than necessary. The downside is that you quite likely need a new handset, even if you have a 4G phone already.

EE and Three at least has most of the UK covered with DC-HSPA 3G, with a fast backhaul, unlike O2 and Vodafone that has loads of ancient 3G kit. Hence why Three and EE users (and those on virtual networks using either of them) currently enjoy pretty good speeds on 3G on trains, even in the middle of nowhere.

Where O2 and Vodafone has upgraded to 4G, you'll get improved 2G and 3G at the same time. That's great, except the roll out is quite patchy - and because each network is so far behind in terms of the base station equipment, you'll have to wait that bit longer. But, I think by 2017 they'll all be fairly close in terms of coverage and capacity.

O2 will always be slowest as it has the least amount of 4G spectrum so can never offer the (max) 300Mbps service that EE and Vodafone have, with Three also owning less spectrum than EE or Vodafone. But of course, Three is in the process of buying O2 and may get to keep the spectrum and combine it - as well as buying more spectrum in future auctions.

The thing is, 4G works so much better than 3G does and you can still get good speeds even on the edge of coverage, whereas 3G is a real problem. Something called 'cell breathing' also creates loads of problems on 3G as the coverage can and will change depending on usage. 4G is much more like 2G.

In the future, I'd hope that all 3G spectrum is refarmed for 4G usage, meaning the whole UK will not only have great coverage, but great speeds too.

Oh, and I believe Network Rail is also in the process of upgrading lineside equipment to offer 4G service to operators, which will hopefully then fill in the remaining gaps - and potentially mean most tunnels get coverage too.

And then we'll be ready for 5G....

PS. O2 got a heavy discount for its 800MHz spectrum, with the requirement to provide a set level of coverage by a deadline I've forgotten (and will have to check). I think it's actually not just a population percentage but a geographic one, so it will mean having to cover areas that otherwise would likely not get any coverage.

But Ofcom has in fact buggered things up a little by not actually requiring blanket 4G coverage, but rather a minimum speed, which could mean that 3G could suffice. I think it's about 2 or 3Mbps, which isn't terrible but certainly not what I think people would have hoped when they heard about it. Still, if the minimum you get even in rural areas is 2Mbps then it's probably going to be okay for everything but video streaming.

Currently I can get 2G GPRS speeds on O2 that are closer to 0.01Mbps - and that's even in large towns. Unless the sites are upgraded (not just to 4G, but also fibred up), rural coverage is next to useless for data.

Because you will always have a signal and everyone has an unlimited data package ;)

Anyone could get an unlimited package though. And while EE, which arguably has the best 4G coverage by far, tops out at 10GB on SIM-only, you can sign up with BT Mobile and use EE's 4G network and get 20GB for as little as £20 a month (£25 if you don't have a BT phone line). The only catch is that it's capped at 30Mbps.

20GB is a pretty decent offering if you don't fancy going with Three, or one of the virtuals offering unlimited data (but just 3G). TalkTalk will do unlimited 3G data for £12 a month!
 
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DarloRich

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Is the main issue not the ability of on train wifi to stream? I know, I know,I know some of us are still stuck in the stone age 4g wise................
 
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rdwarr

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I always use mobile data. Given I have no limit and speeds of up to 50Mbps, why use the Wi-Fi - unless the train itself is blocking my phone signal (390 looking at you).

My journey home is 19 minutes, has 9 tunnels and I can get 15 minutes free wi-fi which is often good enough to watch Sky Sports.
 

jon0844

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Wi-Fi on the Underground is great, albeit only usable in stations, but Wi-Fi on trains (and buses) varies a great deal. It's also often a pain to get connected, where you need to click to login even if you've previously registered, and even where you are in the carriage plays a big part in how usable it is - with the weak link sometimes being the Wi-Fi connection, not the subsequent mobile/Internet signal.

Mobile data is always easier for me, unless I have no choice. With future Wi-Fi versions, which will require new hardware support, I am sure this will be less of an issue - but even 802.11ac isn't perfect (and 802.11n on 5GHz is still fairly rare, let alone ac).
 

infobleep

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Wi-Fi on the Underground is great, albeit only usable in stations, but Wi-Fi on trains (and buses) varies a great deal. It's also often a pain to get connected, where you need to click to login even if you've previously registered, and even where you are in the carriage plays a big part in how usable it is - with the weak link sometimes being the Wi-Fi connection, not the subsequent mobile/Internet signal.

Mobile data is always easier for me, unless I have no choice. With future Wi-Fi versions, which will require new hardware support, I am sure this will be less of an issue - but even 802.11ac isn't perfect (and 802.11n on 5GHz is still fairly rare, let alone ac).
Yes the WiFi is good at the underground stations. Far far far better than South West Trains offering. However I keep going into tunnels and losing the connection when on the tube.

Interestingly I can even log into my satellite TV at the tube stations via my Slingbox.

There was a bug push to add tube stations before the Olympics but does anyone k ow why some tube stations did it get WiFi?

For example Topham Court Road. Given how popular that is and the rebuilding works that were on going at the time, I'd have thought that would be a certain to get WiFi but I'm not even sure it has it now.
 

Mojo

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For example Topham Court Road. Given how popular that is and the rebuilding works that were on going at the time, I'd have thought that would be a certain to get WiFi but I'm not even sure it has it now.
None of the deep-level Crossrail stations have WiFi; this is why you can't get connected at Bond Street, Tottenham Court Road, Farringdon, or Moorgate.
 

me123

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Do people still use crappy on-train wifi? It's quicker to connect to my own 3G/4G than faff about with wifi.

It's much more reliable to use the Scotrail and East Coast (FC, I wouldn't pay for it!) wifi than it is to try and get a phone reception on the more rural lines in Scotland. So, yes, I do use the on-train wifi.
 

transmanche

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Why is that?
Probably because they don;t want to install it when all the building work is going on, which might mean having to move it or reroute cabling. I guess they're going to wait until all the main works have been completed.
 

redbutton

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Probably because they don;t want to install it when all the building work is going on, which might mean having to move it or reroute cabling. I guess they're going to wait until all the main works have been completed.

Or maybe Crossrail will choose a provider other than Virgin, similar to how LO have The Cloud at their stations.
 

Comstock

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I've got a pocket digital tv.

On the Lichfield to Birmingham line you can watch proper, off the air Freeview since you are line of sight to Sutton Coldfield mast for most of the way.

I've also had reasonable results on the top deck of London buses, and even inside St Pancras station (upstairs near the escalator) you can get a workable signal.

There can't be many places on the UK rail network where this is possible, though, especially inside a train.
 

Mojo

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Or maybe Crossrail will choose a provider other than Virgin, similar to how LO have The Cloud at their stations.
These are all LU stations however and will remain as such after Crossrail starts operating. There is no Wifi for staff devices at these stations either - it is not just the public Wifi that does not exist.
 

Starmill

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These are all LU stations however and will remain as such after Crossrail starts operating. There is no Wifi for staff devices at these stations either - it is not just the public Wifi that does not exist.

I don't think any of that was in question - are the reasons suggested close to the mark for why it's currently unavailable though?
 
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