RMT join fight to save Wrexham/Birmingham service

[merlodlliw]

No third ATW LHCS set in the thought train as yet,

Thanks for the check,the juggle of services,if correct,will be interesting.

You may find that there is a thought train of more LHCS sets

[/QUOTE]

Well ATW have three spare Mark 3s,a mark 3 diner & I presume a spare DVT parked up at Canton, OK these are paid for by WG, but seem such a waste.

I have not heard any whispers about extra loco haul sets, but you are in the trade and may know,however who will pay for the running,I appreciate ATW now nearing the end of its 15 year franchise,may well be trying to impress for an extension of a few years,untill the NFP is sorted,not an easy task.
I recall hearing Arriva over the tanoy at Llanelli for he first time,while waiting for an HOWL service to get back home,I choose to return this way after my 158 ex Shrewsbury had its exhaust fall off,I reported it to the driver, has loud banging under my seat,I arrived several hours late in Llanelli,but thats another story.

Bob

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well ATW have three spare Mark 3s,a mark 3 diner & I presume a spare DVT parked up at Canton, OK these are paid for by WG, but seem such a waste.

I have not heard any whispers about extra loco haul sets, but you are in the trade and may know,however who will pay for the running,I appreciate ATW now nearing the end of its 15 year franchise,may well be trying to impress for an extension of a few years,untill the NFP is sorted,not an easy task.
I recall hearing Arriva over the tanoy at Llanelli for he first time,while waiting for an HOWL service to get back home,I choose to return this way after my 158 ex Shrewsbury had its exhaust fall off,I reported it to the driver, has loud banging under my seat,I arrived several hours late in Llanelli,but thats another story.

Bob[/QUOTE]

A 158 dropped its shaft on the points at Aberystwyth about 10 years back. Needed new points as it wrecked the mechanism on the GWR points dating from 1926. The remaining platform at Aber is Number 3 which was the main arrival platform and had loco release.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Daily Post is quoting that 0747 service is saved including comments attributable to Minister to that effect.

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/wrexham-birmingham-rail-service-saved-8688958

 

[merlodlliw]

Recieved this e mail from my AM, which explains everything

Dear Bob

I thought you should be amongst the first to know that I have received a letter from the Transport Minister Edwina Hart this afternoon confirming that following meetings between her officials and ATW she is able to confirm that the 0700 Shrewsbury to Wrexham service and the 0747 Wrexham to Birmingham International via Shrewsbury services are to be retained within the new timetable from May onwards.

ATW is now consulting with stakeholders on the timetable and it is important therefore that we support the retention of the services within the consultation period.

I think the indication today shows what we can do in north Wales when we work together as a community and forcefully present our case. There’s no doubt that the decision would have been very much different if we had not been alive to the threat and if the rail user group and other stakeholders had not been so active in organising the petition.

Thanks again, Aled

 

[Gareth Marston]

Recieved this e mail from my AM, which explains everything

Dear Bob

I thought you should be amongst the first to know that I have received a letter from the Transport Minister Edwina Hart this afternoon confirming that following meetings between her officials and ATW she is able to confirm that the 0700 Shrewsbury to Wrexham service and the 0747 Wrexham to Birmingham International via Shrewsbury services are to be retained within the new timetable from May onwards.

ATW is now consulting with stakeholders on the timetable and it is important therefore that we support the retention of the services within the consultation period.

I think the indication today shows what we can do in north Wales when we work together as a community and forcefully present our case. There’s no doubt that the decision would have been very much different if we had not been alive to the threat and if the rail user group and other stakeholders had not been so active in organising the petition.

Thanks again, Aled

Its amazing what can happen when an internal *** document is photographed by an i phone on a train and the cat is let out the bag perhaps before some people realized there was cat! Withdrawing the 0747 was on the backfoot from day one.
(I own a Samsung by the way)
Sort of reminiscent of how every time the Ministry of Transport asked BR for a list of services to cut the Government back bench MP's in marginal constituencies found out first and were at the Minister howling in protest before the Minister even knew anything!

 

[merlodlliw]

Its amazing what can happen when an internal *** document is photographed by an i phone on a train and the cat is let out the bag perhaps before some people realized there was cat! Withdrawing the 0747 was on the backfoot from day one.
(I own a Samsung by the way)
Sort of reminiscent of how every time the Ministry of Transport asked BR for a list of services to cut the Government back bench MP's in marginal constituencies found out first and were at the Minister howling in protest before the Minister even knew anything!

An extra large vote of thanks on its way to you Gareth Samsung,plus a bowl of llaeth for the cat before it goes back into the bag

 

[PHILIPE]

An extra large vote of thanks on its way to you Gareth Samsung,plus a bowl of llaeth for the cat before it goes back into the bag

Gobeithio bydd y gath yn mwynhau'r llaeth.

(Hope the cat will enjoy the milk)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So who's the loser then (ie where the 0747 was planned to go)?
Or is it just a holding position for another round of consultation?

 

[merlodlliw]

So who's the loser then (ie where the 0747 was planned to go)?
Or is it just a holding position for another round of consultation?

The new Cambrian timetable seems intact,as far as ATW are concerned,they did not have a first round of consultation with anyone,kept saying no final decision as been made.

What ever the juggle, the Minister tells all AMs in her letter of Friday,the franchise has not added any extra cost, due to the retention of the 0747.

The holding position,it may well be,but Welsh Government are in charge of ATW,as paymasters and have the final word.

This is the second time The Minister has reversed ATWs desire to cut services,the other one a couple of months ago was ATW attempt at removing the travelling Chef off Gerald.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The new Cambrian timetable seems intact,as far as ATW are concerned,they did not have a first round of consultation with anyone,kept saying no final decision as been made.

What ever the juggle, the Minister tells all AMs in her letter of Friday,the franchise has not added any extra cost, due to the retention of the 0747.

The holding position,it may well be,but Welsh Government are in charge of ATW,as paymasters and have the final word.

This is the second time The Minister has reversed ATWs desire to cut services,the other one a couple of months ago was ATW attempt at removing the travelling Chef off Gerald.

This all arose out of wanting extra trains without acquiring extra trains. I wonder if the lesson has been learnt?

 

[merlodlliw]

This all arose out of wanting extra trains without acquiring extra trains. I wonder if the lesson has been learnt?

The outcry of trying to remove a busy North East Wales commuter morning train,taking people to work, has an easy option backfired dramatically.
Even though evidence was seen,ATW denied it,when the press started to ask questions,ATWs Cardiff based media division rushed in spinning, well the passengers will be able use the Premier Service,which will have extra stops,this being a confirmation of the withdrawal threat,and contrary to the "Nothing has been decided" by ATW management.

Has the lesson been learned, it should have, the fatal mistake was attempting to make Welsh Government believe ATW had sufficient trains to take on extra services without having the stock to run them.

This is the second such axing on the Chester/Shrewsbury line that failed after massive protest, the first was the ATW attempt to remove the busy Sunday only,2204 Chester to Wrexham a few years ago and 2235 return, however ATW management has changed since then, but as the lesson been learned.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The outcry of trying to remove a busy North East Wales commuter morning train,taking people to work, has an easy option backfired dramatically.
Even though evidence was seen,ATW denied it,when the press started to ask questions,ATWs Cardiff based media division rushed in spinning, well the passengers will be able use the Premier Service,which will have extra stops,this being a confirmation of the withdrawal threat,and contrary to the "Nothing has been decided" by ATW management.

Has the lesson been learned, it should have, the fatal mistake was attempting to make Welsh Government believe ATW had sufficient trains to take on extra services without having the stock to run them.

This is the second such axing on the Chester/Shrewsbury line that failed after massive protest, the first was the ATW attempt to remove the busy Sunday only,2204 Chester to Wrexham a few years ago and 2235 return, however ATW management has changed since then, but as the lesson been learned.

Well we can speculate where the blame lies, the Minister herself would not have had any working knowledge of ATW's rolling stock resources. Perhaps as they'd done Fishguard out of flex the assumption was made it could happen again?

 

[merlodlliw]

Well we can speculate where the blame lies, the Minister herself would not have had any working knowledge of ATW's rolling stock resources. Perhaps as they'd done Fishguard out of flex the assumption was made it could happen again?

Well its all over for now,I agree the Minister would have little idea of rolling stock working knowledge,but after a few meetings with AMs who do know, she is better informed,I note other South based Ministers are now visiting North East Wales,which can be no bad thing,Jane Hutt here last week.

The Fishguards are an interesting set up, but I fail to understand the logic of the Clarbeston Rd/Fishguard workings which seem little used.

 

[PHILIPE]

Well its all over for now,I agree the Minister would have little idea of rolling stock working knowledge,but after a few meetings with AMs who do know, she is better informed,I note other South based Ministers are now visiting North East Wales,which can be no bad thing,Jane Hutt here last week.

The Fishguards are an interesting set up, but I fail to understand the logic of the Clarbeston Rd/Fishguard workings which seem little used.

The Clarbeston Rd trips fill up gaps in order to achieve the number of trips to Fishguard and where there is no unit available to run to Carmarthen or beyond but can do the short trip. The intention is to change in/out of Milford Haven services.

 

[berneyarms]

Well its all over for now,I agree the Minister would have little idea of rolling stock working knowledge,but after a few meetings with AMs who do know, she is better informed,I note other South based Ministers are now visiting North East Wales,which can be no bad thing,Jane Hutt here last week.

The Fishguards are an interesting set up, but I fail to understand the logic of the Clarbeston Rd/Fishguard workings which seem little used.

They are fairly obvious when you stand back from them:

06:47 Fishguard - Clarbeston Road: Connects into the 07:05 ex-Milford Haven
07:20 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard: Positioning move to operate 07:50 ex-Fishguard to Manchester

19:08 Fishguard - Clarbeston Road: Connects into 19:11 ex-Milford Haven and doubles up as a positioning move to operate the 20:05 connection out of Clarbeston Road
20:05: Clarbeston Road - Fishguard: Connects out of 14:30 ex-Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven

Sometimes you have to have positioning moves in one direction to maximise the connections in the direction of peak traffic flow

 

[Gareth Marston]

They are fairly obvious when you stand back from them:

06:47 Fishguard - Clarbeston Road: Connects into the 07:05 ex-Milford Haven
07:20 Clarbeston Road - Fishguard: Positioning move to operate 07:50 ex-Fishguard to Manchester

19:08 Fishguard - Clarbeston Road: Connects into 19:11 ex-Milford Haven and doubles up as a positioning move to operate the 20:05 connection out of Clarbeston Road
20:05: Clarbeston Road - Fishguard: Connects out of 14:30 ex-Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven

Sometimes you have to have positioning moves in one direction to maximise the connections in the direction of peak traffic flow

But are they used by passengers?

 

[berneyarms]

But are they used by passengers?

Well you will need to ask the Fishguard group that campaigned for the services that question I would suggest.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well you will need to ask the Fishguard group that campaigned for the services that question I would suggest.

According to their website, one person did use the service,however it appears not to be a connecting service anymore. http://fishguardtrains.info/
The service Clarbeston village to Fishguard just interests me,anyhow our busy service is safe for another six months.
I appreciate WG are paying for the seven extra Fishguard services,so they will be run by ATW in any case.

 

[berneyarms]

According to their website, one person did use the service,however it appears not to be a connecting service anymore. http://fishguardtrains.info/
The service Clarbeston village to Fishguard just interests me,anyhow our busy service is safe for another six months.
I appreciate WG are paying for the seven extra Fishguard services,so they will be run by ATW in any case.

I'd be surprised if there would be anyone using a train out of Fishguard at 19:08 but again, as I said that particular train is a balancing service out of another train.

I would imagine that there would be passengers using that particular train on the service that it would have just operated into Fishguard beforehand, which leaves Cardiff at 16:04, Swansea at 17:05, and Carmarthen at 17:57, arriving into Fishguard at 18:56.

Similarly, the next train that it operates (20:05 Clarbeston Road to Fishguard), takes a connection out of another service from Cardiff at 17:40, Swansea at 18:41, and Carmarthen at 19:30).

We can all pick particular departures in any timetable that will carry thin air - that's the nature of public transport - you will always have positioning services that are necessary to provide other trains that will carry larger numbers.

What the actual numbers using the services are I don't know, but the people in that region campaigned for them and managed to retain them, and I think they should be supported for that!

 

[merlodlliw]

I'd be surprised if there would be anyone using a train out of Fishguard at 19:08 but again, as I said that particular train is a balancing service out of another train.

I would imagine that there would be passengers using that particular train on the service that it would have just operated into Fishguard beforehand, which leaves Cardiff at 16:04, Swansea at 17:05, and Carmarthen at 17:57, arriving into Fishguard at 18:56.

Similarly, the next train that it operates (20:05 Clarbeston Road to Fishguard), takes a connection out of another service from Cardiff at 17:40, Swansea at 18:41, and Carmarthen at 19:30).

We can all pick particular departures in any timetable that will carry thin air - that's the nature of public transport - you will always have positioning services that are necessary to provide other trains that will carry larger numbers.

What the actual numbers using the services are I don't know, but the people in that region campaigned for them and managed to retain them, and I think they should be supported for that!

Fully agree they should be supported, I also appreciate ATW run some trains that carry hardly anyone, however I am still intrigued by the Clarbeston Rd to Fishguard service, a kind of village to village to village service.
Best of luck to them for the remainder of the trials. I fully understand about positioning etc.
SCRUA Chairman was on Radio Shropshire this morning talking about the saved service Wrexham to Birmingham.

 

[berneyarms]

Fully agree they should be supported, I also appreciate ATW run some trains that carry hardly anyone, however I am still intrigued by the Clarbeston Rd to Fishguard service, a kind of village to village to village service.
Best of luck to them for the remainder of the trials. I fully understand about positioning etc.
SCRUA Chairman was on Radio Shropshire this morning talking about the saved service Wrexham to Birmingham.

You have to think of Clarbeston Road as a junction station - rather than the service being point to point.

 

[merlodlliw]

You have to think of Clarbeston Road as a junction station - rather than the service being point to point.

Yes, I take your point.

 

[Gareth Marston]

0747 is very much showing on NRES now.

 

[merlodlliw]

0747 is very much showing on NRES now.

yes its official, I do gain the impression ATW media division will have had a telling off for almost confirming the 0747 was to be axed,however ATW media were very honest saying Gerald was to be used when reporters asked the question last year,The Minister under intense pressure came to the rescue,she was not impressed I am told by ATW blaming her.

Excellent outcome.

ob

 

[Gareth Marston]

yes its official, I do gain the impression ATW media division will have had a telling off for almost confirming the 0747 was to be axed,however ATW media were very honest saying Gerald was to be used when reporters asked the question last year,The Minister under intense pressure came to the rescue,she was not impressed I am told by ATW blaming her.

Excellent outcome.

ob

Are you saying that ATW altered Gerald's calling pattern and timings without consulting WG who pay for it?

 

[TDK]

Are you saying that ATW altered Gerald's calling pattern and timings without consulting WG who pay for it?

I would think the calling pattern and station stops is also down to train planning and pathing with NR

 

[merlodlliw]

Are you saying that ATW altered Gerald's calling pattern and timings without consulting WG who pay for it?

my guess is,at the monthly meeting WG & ATW, this must have been discussed,but not passed on to the Minister,In December at the Ministers meeting with ATW, she now attends these meetings,it was not mentioned,it was only due to my local AM Aled Roberts making her aware, that she hit the roof,being unaware of ATWs stealth to remove the 0747 and blame her.

To add to the Premier Express three extra calls plus a later arrival in Cardiff must have been OKd by someone in WG, who now pay ATW/DB well in excess of £3millions a year to run the Premier Service.ATW media division did not dream up a revised calling pattern without someone in Cardiff confirming it.

My opinion, having followed the goings on since last summer,when a document was spotted on a train naming the 0747 as the candidate for the Cambrian extras.

 

[Gareth Marston]

my guess is,at the monthly meeting WG & ATW, this must have been discussed,but not passed on to the Minister,In December at the Ministers meeting with ATW, she now attends these meetings,it was not mentioned,it was only due to my local AM Aled Roberts making her aware, that she hit the roof,being unaware of ATWs stealth to remove the 0747 and blame her.

To add to the Premier Express three extra calls plus a later arrival in Cardiff must have been OKd by someone in WG, who now pay ATW/DB well in excess of £3millions a year to run the Premier Service.ATW media division did not dream up a revised calling pattern without someone in Cardiff confirming it.

My opinion, having followed the goings on since last summer,when a document was spotted on a train naming the 0747 as the candidate for the Cambrian extras.

Well someone got their fingers burnt but won't own up in public to it

 

[merlodlliw]

Well someone got their fingers burnt but won't own up in public to it

I dont suppose we will ever know,but Im sure it wont happen again in this Senedd with the Minister very much on the ball with her staff/ATW & Network Rail(Wales)