Greater Anglia Good and Bad Discussion

[jon0844]

The 317/6 first class isn't too bad if it's one of the ones with the new grey seat coverings, but otherwise it's pretty much pointless going first class unless you can be sure you'll be on a 379 every time (as you say) which you probably can't.

 

[hassaanhc]

There is another thing I noticed on the website: One of the people posting doesn't appear to be aware of where GA's responsibility ends and Network Rail's responsibility starts. It isn't GA who own the track, signalling, and other infrastructure, so they'll have minimal input in what happens.

AND an infrastructure that GA just seem to be convinced they can patch up, week in, week out making various parts of Essex unreachable for weekends at a time unless you are happy to double your journey time by doing much of the journey on a bus, for the same price. - See more at: http://abellio.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/failrail/#sthash.qiVhI6Oh.dpuf

Can't find the other post with a similar error right now.

 

[jon0844]

Yeah, I saw a comment Saturday morning about AGA ruining Valentine's Day because they couldn't be bothered to run trains and put on buses instead.

As I recall, it said his 'plans' were ruined.

I was tempted to suggest he hadn't planned very well if he hadn't checked for planned engineering work, and also to re-direct his anger towards Network Rail but thought better of it.

It's odd that there can be so many moans about the poor service, but if the network is partly closed to allow upgrade work, that's the fault of AGA too.

Perhaps all work should be done on a live, running, railway?

 

[dk1]

Yeah, I saw a comment Saturday morning about AGA ruining Valentine's Day because they couldn't be bothered to run trains and put on buses instead.

As I recall, it said his 'plans' were ruined.

I was tempted to suggest he hadn't planned very well if he hadn't checked for planned engineering work, and also to re-direct his anger towards Network Rail but thought better of it.

Yeah I saw that too. Made me laugh. That numpties relationship isn't going to be a long lasting one is it? :roll:

 

[martin2345uk]

According to Wayne's Twitter feed this forum is full of "apologist trainspotters"... nice.

 

[TheEdge]

According to Wayne's Twitter feed this forum is full of "apologist trainspotters"... nice.

Yes, it would appear if your opinion is anything but "AGA and the Dutch are awful and Jonathan Denby and Jamie Burles should be strung up" then you have no idea what you are on about and apologist.

Note how at the moment we are retweeting a selection of tweets about why the engineering work is impacting football. Why can it not be done in summer? When people will complain why can't it be done in winter because people are all on holiday. Ad infinitum.

 

[Dave1987]

I have emailed the MP's mentioned to suggest they might want to read some of the content produced by the group before attending their meetings and affiliating themselves with this group.

 

[43074]

It always grinds my gears when people say an engineering possession was badly planned: these works are in the system 3 months before, and have clearly been planned and thought out over a much longer period of time (12 months + often) so clearly when the information is out there it is just bad planning by passengers. It's always the same, AGA (or any other TOC) do their bit advertising timetables, publishing engineering works posters etc. etc., if the passenger doesn't check before travelling what do they expect? [/rant over].

 

[jon0844]

I've forgotten to check for engineering work a few times but that's my fault, no?

TfL really does work hard to remind people to check for work, so maybe TOCs could do more there.

But, at the end of the day, the work needs to be done.

 

[Saint66]

According to Wayne's Twitter feed this forum is full of "apologist trainspotters"... nice.

Looks to me that he's deleted it now?

Also, slightly ironic, considering that in his own twitter profile, he describes himself as a railways fan... Fairly sure most commuters would think anyone who labels themselves as that as a train spotter! (Even if it is not true)

 

[306024]

I have emailed the MP's mentioned to suggest they might want to read some of the content produced by the group before attending their meetings and affiliating themselves with this group.

Very wise.

I referred to this lot as a posse in another thread, was promptly rebuked by Wayne's World, only to then read someone had drafted a 'has anyone seen Burles' poster. It is more like an episode of Bonanza, for anyone old enough to remember the TV Western series.

There are already rail user groups on the GEML, some of whom align themselves with the Essex Rail Users Federation, and with whom AGA already have engagement. Either this group haven't heard of them or think they can do better.

By now many of you will have realised that reasoned argument with this lot cuts little ice, personally I wouldn't give them the oxygen of publicity, but then in posting this I have just broken my own rule

 

[EssexCommuter]

As much as there are valid points on either side, the 'wonky seats and dusty floors' argument has blown way out of proportion and really detracts from the main issue. As poor as it may be to have dirty rolling stock inside and out, if it were such that the GEML offered c2c levels of punctuality (putting aside any infrastructural reasons why that TOC is more punctual for a moment) and c2c did not, but the GEML had much dirtier trains, you'd see me using the GEML as often as possible. Even though it gives a bad first impression, sub-par upkeep of the rolling stock is only actually an issue when it affects the service by units failing due to mechanical/electrical/whatever defects.

I've been logging the services I've used since the start of the year and intend to compile them if ever I get home from work at a reasonable hour this month! That's nothing to do with train punctuality, I simply have a lot on. However, from what I can recall at present, I have had one 25 minute delay and one 15 minute delay since the start of 2015. The remainder are all mostly 5-6 minutes or less and furthermore, a fair proportion of my journeys are on time. As many as 90%? possibly not, but out of around 50 journeys into and out of London, the majority of which carried out on the GEML - some on the fast lines, some on the slow lines, only two have been substantially delayed, and most wouldn't have impacted any onward connections. The only real problem is if you are connecting with low frequency tube services and have a tight connection you routinely miss due to East Anglian trains very often running 3-5 minutes late. It's annoying and it shouldn't be necessary, but you can just leave home 10 minutes earlier. Major 30+ minute delays that cause severe disruption to my day are still pretty rare on the Liverpool Street line and always have been. Again, some good reasons for why, but what I neglected to mention in my comments during the inaugural meeting was that I find the punctuality of Thameslink considerably worse. Fortunately I tend only to use the line in the core section, but if I used that line for a daily commute for considerable distance, I'd be impressed with AGA's punctuality.
The routine small delays, occasional long delays, dirty rolling stock, ageing fleet, high fares and minimal investment all add up to a grim picture but individually they aren't huge issues. There's a lot that can be done to improve services in the region but tact is absolutely essential. Personally speaking I'm still not happy with the website design or content. I almost think it should be ditched entirely and rebuilt with straightforward info, rather than blog posts. Personal blogs from disgruntled commuters are fine and helpful data, but for the passenger voice group as a whole - I'd much prefer to see a cleaner, simpler site, devoid of Abellio-style branding, simply referencing issues as they are without opinions, or use of phrases like 'filth infested rust bucket' - we might all think it, but it's not language you'd use in a letter to an MP, which is effectively what this site is to be. There is a lot more to professionalism in the cause than just not swearing at TOC staff. I consider the website to be pretty fundamental to this idea if it's ever to take off, so I will draft up some ideas for the next meeting.

I agree with a little of what you say. The trains are late and dirty. I will take the filth if they can run on time.

However you think I should leave 10 minutes earlier? Why should I? I pay an obscene amount of money to AGA. If my usual train is on time, along with the tube connection, I would get to my desk 15 minutes early. Also, if I leave 10 minutes early, I will be waiting 10 minutes to get my usual train. Let's concentrate on getting AGA to run trains on time please. Don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting 100% of trains to arrive bang on time, but at least 1 a week would be nice. The timetable has such a ludicrous amount of padding built in.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We will review all.

But I would prefer you get involved.

I agree. All those arguing against us should should help shape a group acceptable to all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Those businesses aren't normally trying to engage the public to join them though.

Besides, surely the aim of this "business" is to get the organisation to make changes. If you're all complaining about something and they fix it as a result of reading your minutes, surely that's a good thing? (Unless of course you're not bothered about fixes, just getting rid of the problem...) Provided your meetings are held in a responsible, productive and constructive manner, I can't think of anything you could put in a set of minutes that would result in a worse passenger experience after AGA read them.

I would love AGA to make changes, but they don't. Last July they promised more cleaners for example. No evidence of this as yet. Jamie Burles has insisted in every email response for the past 10 months that they are working to improve customer service. Again, no improvement. Faults remain for months after being reported. I don't believe that the trains are fitted with a thermostat; the only time the trains are at a comfortable temperature is when the weather is pleasant and the heating turned off.

I don't understand why none of the objectors want to attend the meetings. Surely this is the best way to find common ground and get the best for the region?

 

[jon0844]

For one thing, who is this guy? He links to the website, so I assume he's involved in some way.

https://twitter.com/Delayed_Again/media

Look at the above Tweets (with photos). Yes, there's a photo of the floor covered in the salt that is brought on by anyone who stood on the platform (i.e. EVERYONE). A lot of these photos are NOT taken by that member of course, but they ARE being re-tweeted and used as some sort of ammunition to highlight how bad the trains are.

So many photos of seat bases/backs being lifted of? And? I can't obviously say that any of these are deliberately done by the person(s) taking the photos, but I sincerely doubt they're going out like that - so it's almost certainly passenger action.

What can AGA do about that? Conflict avoidance training means no member of staff is going to be going after those that do this for a laugh unless they're sure they're going to not only be backed up by management, but also the police.

And fluff and sand/grit on the floor? Seriously?

Whoever this person is should be told 'thanks but no thanks' by those running the site and told to go off and moan elsewhere. And perhaps stop re-tweeting anything mentioning the TOC, and joining in discussions with other members of the public and AGA to rant about how bad things are.

Sure, Twitter is public and he can do what he likes, but for goodness sake - don't have this person representing any group trying to seek change that's beneficial for all users.

If I was AGA I'd be looking at this person and the site linked to and thinking the best thing is to ignore everyone, as they're clearly never going to be satisfied. NO train is going to be clean when platforms are being treated for cold/icy weather. It's impossible and to suggest otherwise makes you look foolish.

 

[CC 72100]

For one thing, who is this guy? He links to the website, so I assume he's involved in some way.

https://twitter.com/Delayed_Again/media

Look at the above Tweets (with photos). Yes, there's a photo of the floor covered in the salt that is brought on by anyone who stood on the platform (i.e. EVERYONE). A lot of these photos are NOT taken by that member of course, but they ARE being re-tweeted and used as some sort of ammunition to highlight how bad the trains are.

And then in another post, they moan that a platform hasn't been gritted.

Make your mind up! :roll:

 

[EssexCommuter]

For one thing, who is this guy? He links to the website, so I assume he's involved in some way.

https://twitter.com/Delayed_Again/media

Look at the above Tweets (with photos). Yes, there's a photo of the floor covered in the salt that is brought on by anyone who stood on the platform (i.e. EVERYONE). A lot of these photos are NOT taken by that member of course, but they ARE being re-tweeted and used as some sort of ammunition to highlight how bad the trains are.

So many photos of seat bases/backs being lifted of? And? I can't obviously say that any of these are deliberately done by the person(s) taking the photos, but I sincerely doubt they're going out like that - so it's almost certainly passenger action.

What can AGA do about that? Conflict avoidance training means no member of staff is going to be going after those that do this for a laugh unless they're sure they're going to not only be backed up by management, but also the police.

And fluff and sand/grit on the floor? Seriously?

Whoever this person is should be told 'thanks but no thanks' by those running the site and told to go off and moan elsewhere. And perhaps stop re-tweeting anything mentioning the TOC, and joining in discussions with other members of the public and AGA to rant about how bad things are.

Sure, Twitter is public and he can do what he likes, but for goodness sake - don't have this person representing any group trying to seek change that's beneficial for all users.

If I was AGA I'd be looking at this person and the site linked to and thinking the best thing is to ignore everyone, as they're clearly never going to be satisfied. NO train is going to be clean when platforms are being treated for cold/icy weather. It's impossible and to suggest otherwise makes you look foolish.

Regarding salt, it can't be helped that it's on the trains. Although the distribution at Colchester (they dump it in clumps instead of spreading it) means a higher concentration that is otherwise necessary is being carried on board. I would also like to add that the trains are dirty all the time. Even the early morning ones during the summer when no salt is involved. Jamie Burles himself admitted that cleaning wasn't up to scratch and they didn't have enough cleaners. He promised to employ more although there is no evidence of this.

I really don't think passengers are deliberately lifting the seats off? Why would they? However if for some bizarre reason I decided I want to lift the seat off, I would expect to find that I couldn't. The seat should be firmly attached.

There are flaws with the website, agreed. You all love pointing them out on this forum. So why not make an attempt to come to the next meeting or join in properly, rather than on here? If you had come to the meeting at Westminster last year, you would have heard the comment about cleaners direct from Jamie Burles's mouth instead of commenting on something you are ignorant on.

I don't understand why all those against the group don't want things to improve. I didn't go to that meeting for fun. My time is precious to me. I don't waste it. I went with the intention that we can get a better railway for us all. A better railway that means I have more time with family and friends. A better railway that means I'm not left feeling drained just 10 minutes into the morning commute.

Finally, you criticise various tweeters. Maybe it isn't what you or I would do. But have you got any idea of just how near to breaking point AGA commuters are? People respond to such stress in different ways. Don't criticise people for wanting the best when you can't be bothered to join in constructively.

 

[CC 72100]

I really don't think passengers are deliberately lifting the seats off? Why would they? However if for some bizarre reason I decided I want to lift the seat off, I would expect to find that I couldn't.

There's some challenging 'customers' that frequent certain suburban lines out of London. I'm sure any driver on here could tell you more...

 

[EssexCommuter]

There's some challenging 'customers' that frequent certain suburban lines out of London. I'm sure any driver on here could tell you more...

Do they really board the train with a spanner just so they can take the seats off?

 

[jon0844]

You don't need a spanner to remove seat bases/backs. Have you looked at any seat base when finding one? I have, as I've put them back. It's a bit tricky at first, but not impossible.

They're a very simple design, and it's the way they've been since they were introduced in the 1980s. Many people find these seats incredibly comfortable compared to more modern ones.

RPIs are even taught to remove a seat base to use as a shield if under direct threat.

Fact is, those seat bases are easy to get off and I guess a lot of people have worked that out. I can't say for sure that anyone has ever done this deliberately to take a photo to 'shame' AGA but it's quite possible.

I assume I'm one of these 'apologists' but I actually think that when people are allowed to get carried away and effectively lose the plot (as well as the argument) then it does nothing to help the cause. In fact, it does the exact opposite.

In fact, the conspiracy theorist might surmise that this site is in fact organised and run by people who work WITH the train operator to discredit anyone that has a genuine grievance. It must be very easy for AGA and others to just point out that they're never going to satisfy people who have a problem with seats being messed up by vandals, or that the floor is covered in dirt/salt brought on by the general public.

I know it's not the GEML, but I've seen plenty of trains with train presentation teams working to clear the trains before and even during service. They do exist, and they're picking up food cartons, coffee cups, bottles of booze, other packets, newspapers and so on. No, they're not on their hands and knees dusting behind the seats or mopping up the floors, but they are picking up loads of clear bags of rubbish left behind by passengers too inconsiderate to use bins.

And while you might sometimes have the bins on trains full, when I go to get rid of my coffee cup, or the McDonald's I picked up at LST, I usually have absolutely no problem putting it in one of the bins.

There are lots of things I've brought up with AGA, like issues with TVMs, the buttons falling off the 379s that are a genuine accessibility issue, faulty CIS, thermostats not working in individual carriages (and then giving AGA the carriage numbers, not a photo), screens not working on station platforms or giving incorrect information and so on.

I do, however, commend them on the many good things they do that seem to be deliberately ignored by some. That seems to be a big no no.

 

[TheEdge]

I agree. All those arguing against us should should help shape a group acceptable to all.

Whats the point? People in this thread have been doing that. In its current state whatever this group is called (because good luck trying to enter into dialogue when the logo and name remains some childish parody) is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Take a look at the East Suffolk Travellers Association. They are mature about it, which is why their posters are at most stations in their area and they were part of a campaign which successfully a new passing loop built, station refurbishments and a doubling of service frequency. In its current state your group will achieve nothing like that.

I don't understand why none of the objectors want to attend the meetings. Surely this is the best way to find common ground and get the best for the region?

I don't need to stand in a room full of ranting commuters to tell you what is best for the region. Best for the region is to drop the AGA vendetta and make sure that NR and the DfT agree to things like infrastructure renewals and improvements and a commitment to new rolling stock in the long franchise.

Or keep pointlessly moaning at a company nearing the end of its franchise and then be surprised when they don't throw tens of millions at it...

 

[samuelmorris]

Essex Commuter: We aren't in disagreement there. I too think that punctuality is the real problem. The poor upkeep of the trains is just something that may end up helping the cause if it's rectified - but obviously by that I'm referring to maintenance, not cleaning.

The 315 I got home late tonight from Stratford had mud strewn over at least half a dozen of the seats. That's just essentially vandalism rather than poor cleaning (unless it's still there in a fortnight) so I didn't tweet it. Stratford platforms 9/10 (out of use all weekend I believe?) also had litter all over the track along with the usual toilet waste lying around. Again though, while this is unpleasant to look at, it's not something you can easily do much about and doesn't affect your journey apart from maybe make the experience seem a little less untidy.

I quite agree with Jon's comments that the casual lambasting of the TOC for things like the mucky floors does actually harm the cause.

 

[EssexCommuter]

Whats the point? People in this thread have been doing that. In its current state whatever this group is called (because good luck trying to enter into dialogue when the logo and name remains some childish parody) is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Take a look at the East Suffolk Travellers Association. They are mature about it, which is why their posters are at most stations in their area and they were part of a campaign which successfully a new passing loop built, station refurbishments and a doubling of service frequency. In its current state your group will achieve nothing like that.



I don't need to stand in a room full of ranting commuters to tell you what is best for the region. Best for the region is to drop the AGA vendetta and make sure that NR and the DfT agree to things like infrastructure renewals and improvements and a commitment to new rolling stock in the long franchise.

Or keep pointlessly moaning at a company nearing the end of its franchise and then be surprised when they don't throw tens of millions at it...

The point is about speaking to everyone involved. They're not all on this thread.
Can I ask, what are you doing to ensure we get the best for the region?

Also, do you understand how the franchise agreement works? The current franchise does not allow for the improvements required, so no, they won't throw millions at it. That's the government's fault. And it's not what this is about. Nothing will change under the current franchise. It's about defining the new franchise. But then you wouldn't understand as you haven't attend any meetings. Do you think we give up previous free time for fun. I give up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Essex Commuter: We aren't in disagreement there. I too think that punctuality is the real problem. The poor upkeep of the trains is just something that may end up helping the cause if it's rectified - but obviously by that I'm referring to maintenance, not cleaning.

The 315 I got home late tonight from Stratford had mud strewn over at least half a dozen of the seats. That's just essentially vandalism rather than poor cleaning (unless it's still there in a fortnight) so I didn't tweet it. Stratford platforms 9/10 (out of use all weekend I believe?) also had litter all over the track along with the usual toilet waste lying around. Again though, while this is unpleasant to look at, it's not something you can easily do much about and doesn't affect your journey apart from maybe make the experience seem a little less untidy.

I quite agree with Jon's comments that the casual lambasting of the TOC for things like the mucky floors does actually harm the cause.

The problem is that once AGA annoy you enough by having constantly delayed trains then anything else that would normally would be ok also becomes annoying. My money doesn't go on well maintained trains, so why should I also have to pay for filth? We are one of the few lines that SUBSIDISE others. Our money is being taken to pay for others. This isn't AGA's fault. But the aim is to get a decent franchise agreement for next time. I think this is what ill informed people are missing. It's about 2016, not now.

I used to tweet a lot but realised it achieved nothing and wasted my time.

 

[samuelmorris]

The fares thing is rather galling for someone who uses both c2c and AGA, where tomorrow's 16 mile outbound journey on c2c will cost £5.10 versus the 21 mile similar journey on AGA I often make that costs £10.90. Granted oyster pricing is a little different to paper ticket pricing but having done some research on journeys further afield I can confirm that the ratio is similar there as well (e.g. Laindon vs. Billericay and so on).
The line isn't the most expensive per-mile in the UK, that would be the long-distance operators like Great Western, Virgin Trains and East Coast, but it's still pretty pricey compared to other similar operators, which doesn't really tally with the service level.
Trouble is, how on earth do you argue for investment and fare cuts at the same time? I rather suspect we're just going to have to stomach the fares as they are if we're to get the levels of investment people are looking for. I'd be quite happy with the line speed staying 100mph, Norwich not dropping as low as 90 mins, and just refurbishing & re-tractioning the 321s with a small handful of new units, but only if the 321 refurb is done right, and the units are looked after far better from then on. I'm not as ambitious as some members in the group, but I will obviously take whatever it is we're able to get.

Unless I see something truly hideous I think I'm going to stop tweeting photos, and only mention it if I'm severely delayed, as that's really where the issues lie.

 

[TheEdge]

The point is about speaking to everyone involved. They're not all on this thread.
Can I ask, what are you doing to ensure we get the best for the region?

Well, that missed the point entirely. You said about creating a group attractive to all. My point was in its current state its going to be attractive to no one who can make a serious difference. If I wanted to improve the GEML and saw that website I wouldn't give it the time of day. There is no public face to this group that looks like anything more than a collection of ranters.

Well, I turn up day in day out and try to provide the best service I can in the framework of what I have. I am one of the thousands of people your group constantly imply are incompetent and don't care.

Also, do you understand how the franchise agreement works? The current franchise does not allow for the improvements required, so no, they won't throw millions at it. That's the government's fault. And it's not what this is about. Nothing will change under the current franchise. It's about defining the new franchise. But then you wouldn't understand as you haven't attend any meetings. Do you think we give up previous free time for fun.

Yes, I do. Which is why I said the anti AGA vendetta is pointless and effort should be about pushing NR and the DfT on the terms of the new franchise. :roll: But your group seems to have no aims apart from attacking AGA for every little thing it can find.

I give up.

Thats not the attitude you need to enact change.

 

[EssexCommuter]

The fares thing is rather galling for someone who uses both c2c and AGA, where tomorrow's 16 mile outbound journey on c2c will cost £5.10 versus the 21 mile similar journey on AGA I often make that costs £10.90. Granted oyster pricing is a little different to paper ticket pricing but having done some research on journeys further afield I can confirm that the ratio is similar there as well (e.g. Laindon vs. Billericay and so on).
The line isn't the most expensive per-mile in the UK, that would be the long-distance operators like Great Western, Virgin Trains and East Coast, but it's still pretty pricey compared to other similar operators, which doesn't really tally with the service level.
Trouble is, how on earth do you argue for investment and fare cuts at the same time? I rather suspect we're just going to have to stomach the fares as they are if we're to get the levels of investment people are looking for. I'd be quite happy with the line speed staying 100mph, Norwich not dropping as low as 90 mins, and just refurbishing & re-tractioning the 321s with a small handful of new units, but only if the 321 refurb is done right, and the units are looked after far better from then on. I'm not as ambitious as some members in the group, but I will obviously take whatever it is we're able to get.

Unless I see something truly hideous I think I'm going to stop tweeting photos, and only mention it if I'm severely delayed, as that's really where the issues lie.

I don't argue for investment AND fare cuts. I'm only against fare rises as it has the GEML has been severely neglected. Not AGA's fault.
Happy for fares to stay the same/rise with inflation when, and only when, we get the investment that other lines see.

NR has neglected the line for decades. I'd agree with refurbs if AGA bothered to maintain them. However there is the wider argument that we are subsiding other lines with newer trains. Why? If those lines don't pay their way then they should get older trains.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well, that missed the point entirely. You said about creating a group attractive to all. My point was in its current state its going to be attractive to no one who can make a serious difference. If I wanted to improve the GEML and saw that website I wouldn't give it the time of day. There is no public face to this group that looks like anything more than a collection of ranters.

Well, I turn up day in day out and try to provide the best service I can in the framework of what I have. I am one of the thousands of people your group constantly imply are incompetent and don't care.



Yes, I do. Which is why I said the anti AGA vendetta is pointless and effort should be about pushing NR and the DfT on the terms of the new franchise. :roll: But your group seems to have no aims apart from attacking AGA for every little thing it can find.



Thats not the attitude you need to enact change.

I didn't miss the point. You expect it to be perfect from the beginning. I had no input on the website. Neither did you. It has to start from somewhere, and then everyone can help to improve it. You are expecting the people behind it, who are beyond fed up and tired, to get it right first time. Help develop it, and not from behind a screen.

Apologies, I don't have time to pay enough attention. What do you do within AGA? I praise all those that do what their job. Unfortunately, many don't even do that, I suspect due to poor management. If you are in a public facing job and I have experienced you, praise would have been given where praise was due. Even for simply doing your job.

It's not my group. It's our group.

When people try to improve things, we are attacked. You don't want to attend the meetings, you just want to attack people who want to see their money being invested. I appreciate you don't like people implying you are incompetent. However, if you are competent, you will want the company to improve.

To reiterate, the group and website isn't perfect. If you agree then join the meetings.

Sometimes, you have to realise you are facing a brick wall and find another way. I stopped wasting my time on Twitter and now I'm going to stop wasting my time here.

 

[jon0844]

I think the point being made by me and many others is that the website as is should go. Not be modified, but started again from scratch.

It's a site to seek change and improvements, not slag off AGA and promote people saying rude things about trivial matters.

It also needs input from people who understand how things work. So when trains are delayed, let's find out whether it's a rolling stock issue, infrastructure issue, timetable issue or whatever.

Once you've established where the faults lie, you can then begin to come up with suggestions on how things might be fixed. Would modifying timetables and changing some stopping patterns help? Is this something that could be trialled in the next timetable change? Who will monitor whether it was a success or failure? Who would need to be involved to make such changes?

And so on.

Photos of seat bases and dirty floors, and loads of comments about money going to other TOCs or back to Holland are NOT helpful or productive in any way.

Anyway, I better go to bed now or being late for work tomorrow won't be down to the actions of any TOC....

 

[LAX54]

I think the point being made by me and many others is that the website as is should go. Not be modified, but started again from scratch.

It's a site to seek change and improvements, not slag off AGA and promote people saying rude things about trivial matters.

It also needs input from people who understand how things work. So when trains are delayed, let's find out whether it's a rolling stock issue, infrastructure issue, timetable issue or whatever.

Once you've established where the faults lie, you can then begin to come up with suggestions on how things might be fixed. Would modifying timetables and changing some stopping patterns help? Is this something that could be trialled in the next timetable change? Who will monitor whether it was a success or failure? Who would need to be involved to make such changes?

And so on.

Photos of seat bases and dirty floors, and loads of comments about money going to other TOCs or back to Holland are NOT helpful or productive in any way.

Anyway, I better go to bed now or being late for work tomorrow won't be down to the actions of any TOC....

If I were the TOC, I would not treat anyhting said on the website with any creedance, to me it just seems like www.knockAGA.com! Most of the comments just seem cheap jibes

 

[Dave1987]

If the purpose of the group was to improve the service on GEML then no one would have any issues. If the title of the website was something like 'East Anglia Passenger voice' with aims of working with the DFT and the TOC to improve the service for the better that would be very proffesional and would get noticed and taken seriously. BUT it's Abellio "Fail" complaints. So it's clear your aims are to merely get rid of Abellio. Your twitter feeds comments relating to the Scotrail franchise show that you have a vendetta against Abellio. The fact that the person who runs the Delayed Again account, a certain Mr Edwards, sings the praises of Govia which runs one of the most unpopular franchises in the country, Southeastern and is already cocking up Thameslink says everything really.

 

[samuelmorris]

I must admit I found the 'southeastern do a much better job' philosophy a little flawed partly because a lot of the experiences that achieved that, to my knowledge, were on the high speed services.

That said, anecdotal evidence is still ultimately a passenger's experience which is what this is about. My experiences with SE on their normal services are similar to AGA - i.e. they're quite often late, just not often severely so. 465 seats come off just as easily as 315 seats, cleanliness wise though it's no contest, I rarely see SE's units as dirty as ours.

I generally agree with the website comments. I didn't at first, but the more I think about it, especially when we now have people from here mailing MPs warning them not to take us too seriously (!) it speaks volumes about the sort of reactions the site is provoking in people - not the right ones, clearly.

I imagine the website will be a hot topic at the next meeting and hopefully we can make some progress to addressing those issues then. If a full redesign is what's needed (which I suspect it might be) then so be it.
Politically, I think affiliating the website with the twitter feed is a bad idea. At most, a 'best of' the twitter feed with the most justified criticisms and more carefully worded posts will have to do. The rest should all he entirely factual stuff.

 

[jon0844]

Dirty trains is an issue, sure, but not a reason to get rid of Abellio. And if there are people attacking Abellio for how it's going to run things in Scotland, of which I suspect few people are even aware of the current service, then it's a joke.

I don't know much (anything) about the people behind the site, but get the impression (as I expect others would if shown the site and asked to describe the people behind it) that they're in their early 20s and think they've found a great way to change the world through a mix of sarcasm and sensationalism on a blog and Twitter.

A proper rail users group would be in there for the longhaul. There would be a clear agenda on the site, details of all the plans and aims, a newsletter people could perhaps subscribe to and so on.

Any direct communication with Abellio on Twitter to try and 'shame' the company wouldn't be necessary as there would already be a proper line of communication with key staff done privately, with respect shown on both sides.

 

[CC 72100]

Dirty trains is an issue, sure, but not a reason to get rid of Abellio. .

And surely 'getting rid of Abellio' (is that the aim?!) would just lead to a temporary franchise that would further delay any long-term investment and improvement on the GEML, as the temporary franchise would be exactly that, unwilling (and unable) to bring about real change.