The 317/6 first class isn't too bad if it's one of the ones with the new grey seat coverings, but otherwise it's pretty much pointless going first class unless you can be sure you'll be on a 379 every time (as you say) which you probably can't.
AND an infrastructure that GA just seem to be convinced they can patch up, week in, week out making various parts of Essex unreachable for weekends at a time unless you are happy to double your journey time by doing much of the journey on a bus, for the same price. - See more at: http://abellio.greaterangliacomplaints.co.uk/failrail/#sthash.qiVhI6Oh.dpuf
Yeah, I saw a comment Saturday morning about AGA ruining Valentine's Day because they couldn't be bothered to run trains and put on buses instead.
As I recall, it said his 'plans' were ruined.
I was tempted to suggest he hadn't planned very well if he hadn't checked for planned engineering work, and also to re-direct his anger towards Network Rail but thought better of it.
According to Wayne's Twitter feed this forum is full of "apologist trainspotters"... nice.
According to Wayne's Twitter feed this forum is full of "apologist trainspotters"... nice.
I have emailed the MP's mentioned to suggest they might want to read some of the content produced by the group before attending their meetings and affiliating themselves with this group.
As much as there are valid points on either side, the 'wonky seats and dusty floors' argument has blown way out of proportion and really detracts from the main issue. As poor as it may be to have dirty rolling stock inside and out, if it were such that the GEML offered c2c levels of punctuality (putting aside any infrastructural reasons why that TOC is more punctual for a moment) and c2c did not, but the GEML had much dirtier trains, you'd see me using the GEML as often as possible. Even though it gives a bad first impression, sub-par upkeep of the rolling stock is only actually an issue when it affects the service by units failing due to mechanical/electrical/whatever defects.
I've been logging the services I've used since the start of the year and intend to compile them if ever I get home from work at a reasonable hour this month! That's nothing to do with train punctuality, I simply have a lot on. However, from what I can recall at present, I have had one 25 minute delay and one 15 minute delay since the start of 2015. The remainder are all mostly 5-6 minutes or less and furthermore, a fair proportion of my journeys are on time. As many as 90%? possibly not, but out of around 50 journeys into and out of London, the majority of which carried out on the GEML - some on the fast lines, some on the slow lines, only two have been substantially delayed, and most wouldn't have impacted any onward connections. The only real problem is if you are connecting with low frequency tube services and have a tight connection you routinely miss due to East Anglian trains very often running 3-5 minutes late. It's annoying and it shouldn't be necessary, but you can just leave home 10 minutes earlier. Major 30+ minute delays that cause severe disruption to my day are still pretty rare on the Liverpool Street line and always have been. Again, some good reasons for why, but what I neglected to mention in my comments during the inaugural meeting was that I find the punctuality of Thameslink considerably worse. Fortunately I tend only to use the line in the core section, but if I used that line for a daily commute for considerable distance, I'd be impressed with AGA's punctuality.
The routine small delays, occasional long delays, dirty rolling stock, ageing fleet, high fares and minimal investment all add up to a grim picture but individually they aren't huge issues. There's a lot that can be done to improve services in the region but tact is absolutely essential. Personally speaking I'm still not happy with the website design or content. I almost think it should be ditched entirely and rebuilt with straightforward info, rather than blog posts. Personal blogs from disgruntled commuters are fine and helpful data, but for the passenger voice group as a whole - I'd much prefer to see a cleaner, simpler site, devoid of Abellio-style branding, simply referencing issues as they are without opinions, or use of phrases like 'filth infested rust bucket' - we might all think it, but it's not language you'd use in a letter to an MP, which is effectively what this site is to be. There is a lot more to professionalism in the cause than just not swearing at TOC staff. I consider the website to be pretty fundamental to this idea if it's ever to take off, so I will draft up some ideas for the next meeting.
We will review all.
But I would prefer you get involved.
Those businesses aren't normally trying to engage the public to join them though.
Besides, surely the aim of this "business" is to get the organisation to make changes. If you're all complaining about something and they fix it as a result of reading your minutes, surely that's a good thing? (Unless of course you're not bothered about fixes, just getting rid of the problem...) Provided your meetings are held in a responsible, productive and constructive manner, I can't think of anything you could put in a set of minutes that would result in a worse passenger experience after AGA read them.
For one thing, who is this guy? He links to the website, so I assume he's involved in some way.
https://twitter.com/Delayed_Again/media
Look at the above Tweets (with photos). Yes, there's a photo of the floor covered in the salt that is brought on by anyone who stood on the platform (i.e. EVERYONE). A lot of these photos are NOT taken by that member of course, but they ARE being re-tweeted and used as some sort of ammunition to highlight how bad the trains are.
For one thing, who is this guy? He links to the website, so I assume he's involved in some way.
https://twitter.com/Delayed_Again/media
Look at the above Tweets (with photos). Yes, there's a photo of the floor covered in the salt that is brought on by anyone who stood on the platform (i.e. EVERYONE). A lot of these photos are NOT taken by that member of course, but they ARE being re-tweeted and used as some sort of ammunition to highlight how bad the trains are.
So many photos of seat bases/backs being lifted of? And? I can't obviously say that any of these are deliberately done by the person(s) taking the photos, but I sincerely doubt they're going out like that - so it's almost certainly passenger action.
What can AGA do about that? Conflict avoidance training means no member of staff is going to be going after those that do this for a laugh unless they're sure they're going to not only be backed up by management, but also the police.
And fluff and sand/grit on the floor? Seriously?
Whoever this person is should be told 'thanks but no thanks' by those running the site and told to go off and moan elsewhere. And perhaps stop re-tweeting anything mentioning the TOC, and joining in discussions with other members of the public and AGA to rant about how bad things are.
Sure, Twitter is public and he can do what he likes, but for goodness sake - don't have this person representing any group trying to seek change that's beneficial for all users.
If I was AGA I'd be looking at this person and the site linked to and thinking the best thing is to ignore everyone, as they're clearly never going to be satisfied. NO train is going to be clean when platforms are being treated for cold/icy weather. It's impossible and to suggest otherwise makes you look foolish.
I really don't think passengers are deliberately lifting the seats off? Why would they? However if for some bizarre reason I decided I want to lift the seat off, I would expect to find that I couldn't.
There's some challenging 'customers' that frequent certain suburban lines out of London. I'm sure any driver on here could tell you more...
I agree. All those arguing against us should should help shape a group acceptable to all.
I don't understand why none of the objectors want to attend the meetings. Surely this is the best way to find common ground and get the best for the region?
Whats the point? People in this thread have been doing that. In its current state whatever this group is called (because good luck trying to enter into dialogue when the logo and name remains some childish parody) is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Take a look at the East Suffolk Travellers Association. They are mature about it, which is why their posters are at most stations in their area and they were part of a campaign which successfully a new passing loop built, station refurbishments and a doubling of service frequency. In its current state your group will achieve nothing like that.
I don't need to stand in a room full of ranting commuters to tell you what is best for the region. Best for the region is to drop the AGA vendetta and make sure that NR and the DfT agree to things like infrastructure renewals and improvements and a commitment to new rolling stock in the long franchise.
Or keep pointlessly moaning at a company nearing the end of its franchise and then be surprised when they don't throw tens of millions at it...
Essex Commuter: We aren't in disagreement there. I too think that punctuality is the real problem. The poor upkeep of the trains is just something that may end up helping the cause if it's rectified - but obviously by that I'm referring to maintenance, not cleaning.
The 315 I got home late tonight from Stratford had mud strewn over at least half a dozen of the seats. That's just essentially vandalism rather than poor cleaning (unless it's still there in a fortnight) so I didn't tweet it. Stratford platforms 9/10 (out of use all weekend I believe?) also had litter all over the track along with the usual toilet waste lying around. Again though, while this is unpleasant to look at, it's not something you can easily do much about and doesn't affect your journey apart from maybe make the experience seem a little less untidy.
I quite agree with Jon's comments that the casual lambasting of the TOC for things like the mucky floors does actually harm the cause.
The point is about speaking to everyone involved. They're not all on this thread.
Can I ask, what are you doing to ensure we get the best for the region?
Also, do you understand how the franchise agreement works? The current franchise does not allow for the improvements required, so no, they won't throw millions at it. That's the government's fault. And it's not what this is about. Nothing will change under the current franchise. It's about defining the new franchise. But then you wouldn't understand as you haven't attend any meetings. Do you think we give up previous free time for fun.
I give up.
The fares thing is rather galling for someone who uses both c2c and AGA, where tomorrow's 16 mile outbound journey on c2c will cost £5.10 versus the 21 mile similar journey on AGA I often make that costs £10.90. Granted oyster pricing is a little different to paper ticket pricing but having done some research on journeys further afield I can confirm that the ratio is similar there as well (e.g. Laindon vs. Billericay and so on).
The line isn't the most expensive per-mile in the UK, that would be the long-distance operators like Great Western, Virgin Trains and East Coast, but it's still pretty pricey compared to other similar operators, which doesn't really tally with the service level.
Trouble is, how on earth do you argue for investment and fare cuts at the same time? I rather suspect we're just going to have to stomach the fares as they are if we're to get the levels of investment people are looking for. I'd be quite happy with the line speed staying 100mph, Norwich not dropping as low as 90 mins, and just refurbishing & re-tractioning the 321s with a small handful of new units, but only if the 321 refurb is done right, and the units are looked after far better from then on. I'm not as ambitious as some members in the group, but I will obviously take whatever it is we're able to get.
Unless I see something truly hideous I think I'm going to stop tweeting photos, and only mention it if I'm severely delayed, as that's really where the issues lie.
Well, that missed the point entirely. You said about creating a group attractive to all. My point was in its current state its going to be attractive to no one who can make a serious difference. If I wanted to improve the GEML and saw that website I wouldn't give it the time of day. There is no public face to this group that looks like anything more than a collection of ranters.
Well, I turn up day in day out and try to provide the best service I can in the framework of what I have. I am one of the thousands of people your group constantly imply are incompetent and don't care.
Yes, I do. Which is why I said the anti AGA vendetta is pointless and effort should be about pushing NR and the DfT on the terms of the new franchise. :roll: But your group seems to have no aims apart from attacking AGA for every little thing it can find.
Thats not the attitude you need to enact change.
I think the point being made by me and many others is that the website as is should go. Not be modified, but started again from scratch.
It's a site to seek change and improvements, not slag off AGA and promote people saying rude things about trivial matters.
It also needs input from people who understand how things work. So when trains are delayed, let's find out whether it's a rolling stock issue, infrastructure issue, timetable issue or whatever.
Once you've established where the faults lie, you can then begin to come up with suggestions on how things might be fixed. Would modifying timetables and changing some stopping patterns help? Is this something that could be trialled in the next timetable change? Who will monitor whether it was a success or failure? Who would need to be involved to make such changes?
And so on.
Photos of seat bases and dirty floors, and loads of comments about money going to other TOCs or back to Holland are NOT helpful or productive in any way.
Anyway, I better go to bed now or being late for work tomorrow won't be down to the actions of any TOC....
Dirty trains is an issue, sure, but not a reason to get rid of Abellio. .