Wrexham redouble

[merlodlliw]

The Bidston services appear to have all operated - it looks like the set was already in Wrexham having come from Chester.

Must have been a spare set then from Chester, as the 0610 Salop/Wrexham works the 2nd Bidston,along with a set from Chester which runs the first Bidston service.I presume Chester will have been informed well in advance. Before VT arrived in Wrexham,both Bidston sets were stabled at Chester.

 

[merlodlliw]

Even with the past good weather,Network Rail have reported to Welsh Government(WG), the work will now over run to July 2015, due to unforeseen problems and the black hole is now even bigger, according to a report I saw on Friday its now £millions over budget.
The bridge at Broad Oak has been cancelled to save money around £3 to £5 millions, not sure if the bridge is included in the £12 to £16 millions overspend.
WG have brought in a "Rail expert" to advise the Minister,who according to insiders at WG is furious with Network Rails handling of the project.

 

[merlodlliw]

While I understand people in Wrexham are a bit peeved, the fact remains that the connection to stations to Birmingham is still there - it's just about 10 minutes earlier than currently and involves a change at Shrewsbury. Yes it is mildly inconvenient, but it's not as if the connection is being completely withdrawn. With any timetable change it is inevitable that someone will lose out. I'd be more concerned if ATW were not offering a replacement - it's not perfect, but it's not unreasonable.

Re the Bank Holiday - did you not get independent confirmation that ATW would provide a service (even though it is not in the printed timetable)? I seem to recall a post in the mists of time stating that they would?

Mike Vaughan in his letter, said if VT did not run the service,ATW would step in, however this is not good enough and requires someone to check if it is running,the previous timetables showed this ATW 2022 out of Chester to Shrewsbury via Wrexham,this was put on due to over 100 stuck on Chester station for up to two hours.ATW put this service on because VT told them it would not run in & out of Wrexham on public Holidays, ATW seem to have forgotten this,a problem with new management.
As for the open access train picking up at Wrexham for Shrewsbury at 0732,it is still a loss of a direct service,also the Open Access can be withdrawn at any time, it also makes a farce of any line time increase North/South due to the part redoubling in my opinion,stopping at Ruabon/Chirk/Gobowen will add minutes to the service.

 

[berneyarms]

Mike Vaughan in his letter, said if VT did not run the service,ATW would step in, however this is not good enough and requires someone to check if it is running,the previous timetables showed this ATW 2022 out of Chester to Shrewsbury via Wrexham,this was put on due to over 100 stuck on Chester station for up to two hours.ATW put this service on because VT told them it would not run in & out of Wrexham on public Holidays, ATW seem to have forgotten this,a problem with new management.
As for the open access train picking up at Wrexham for Shrewsbury at 0732,it is still a loss of a direct service,also the Open Access can be withdrawn at any time, it also makes a farce of any line time increase North/South due to the part redoubling in my opinion,stopping at Ruabon/Chirk/Gobowen will add minutes to the service.

As for your PS, ill ignore that.

Well I'm sure that ATW management are aware of the bank holiday issue - you have made representations on it which they acknowledged receipt of. If they're not, they ought to be!

As for the 07:32, I very much doubt that ATW would leave the commuters in the lurch if the WAG service were removed - that's bread and butter revenue for them. It's not going to be removed overnight - particularly if it is fulfilling two franchise obligations. Also it's not like other open access services - it is WAG funded and with all government expenditure there is always a notice period in which to make alternative arrangements, which in that case would require getting more rolling stock.

And I was being facetious with the PS!!

 

[merlodlliw]

Too true! Just another example of shed fulls of money being spent on consultancy reports which then sit on bureaucrats desks so long that by the time they are looked at much of the info is out of date. Sounding cynical?

Not cynical at all, I have read the consultants report dated February 2014,just released because of pressure from the Wrexham MP Ian Lucas.
It was written for the MOJ and titled "Use of Wrexham General for prisoner social visits" the report was not even seen by Wrexham CC, who are the prison planning authority, anyhow the Wolverhampton consultants report is so ridiculous it even states Wrexham General will cope in its present state,has few visitors will use the station, this is for a 2100 prisoner super jail,with thousands of expected prisoner families visiting Wrexham, consultants indeed, We have worked on other prison statistics which the consultants have not & we find at least a thousand prison visitor families will use Wrexham General a week,thats 52K in a year ,minimum. Many of which will have free rail passes for the visit.
Sorry to go on, but consultants live in another world,and worse still the MOJ have accepted this.

 

[headshot119]

Not cynical at all, I have read the consultants report dated February 2014,just released because of pressure from the Wrexham MP Ian Lucas.
It was written for the MOJ and titled "Use of Wrexham General for prisoner social visits" the report was not even seen by Wrexham CC, who are the prison planning authority, anyhow the Wolverhampton consultants report is so ridiculous it even states Wrexham General will cope in its present state,has few visitors will use the station, this is for a 2100 prisoner super jail,with thousands of expected prisoner families visiting Wrexham, consultants indeed, We have worked on other prison statistics which the consultants have not & we find at least a thousand prison visitor families will use Wrexham General a week,thats 52K in a year ,minimum. Many of which will have free rail passes for the visit.
Sorry to go on, but consultants live in another world,and worse still the MOJ have accepted this.

This is the "super" prison that no one seems sure if it will be built or not?

Sorry but I really don't see that amount of visitors using the station for visits, you reckon a 1000 families a week, how many of them are more likely to use the bus to arrive, the number 1 from Chester is more convenient with the higher frequency, and saves the walk to the bus station (assuming of course they don't extend the industrial estate buses back to the train station.)

 

[merlodlliw]

This is the "super" prison that no one seems sure if it will be built or not?

Sorry but I really don't see that amount of visitors using the station for visits, you reckon a 1000 families a week, how many of them are more likely to use the bus to arrive, the number 1 from Chester is more convenient with the higher frequency, and saves the walk to the bus station (assuming of course they don't extend the industrial estate buses back to the train station.)

It is being built as I write, There is no bus service to the Industrial Estate from Chester.everything goes to Wrexham. Chester/ Wrexham number one is every ten minutes, but only serves Chester Business Park, at its nearest point this service is three miles from the prison, it is Arrivas most lucrative service in North Wales & wont be diverted.
To get a service bus from Holyhead would take four to five hours with numerous changes,the train takes two hours direct.

 

[headshot119]

It is being built as I write, There is no bus service to the Industrial Estate from Chester.everything goes to Wrexham. Chester/ Wrexham number one is every ten minutes, but only serves Chester Business Park, at its nearest point this service is three miles from the prison, it is Arrivas most lucrative service in North Wales & wont be diverted.
To get a service bus from Holyhead would take four to five hours with numerous changes,the train takes two hours direct.

I am well aware there aren't any direct buses from Chester to the Wrexham Industrial Estate, and I never said there was.

The Number 1 is also every 12 minutes not 10.

As I said people coming from Chester are unlikely to use the once an hour train, then walk to Wrexham bus station, when they could get the more frequent and cheaper #1 bus service to Wrexham, then change at the bus station onto the industrial estate bus.

 

[Gareth Marston]

I am well aware there aren't any direct buses from Chester to the Wrexham Industrial Estate, and I never said there was.

The Number 1 is also every 12 minutes not 10.

As I said people coming from Chester are unlikely to use the once an hour train, then walk to Wrexham bus station, when they could get the more frequent and cheaper #1 bus service to Wrexham, then change at the bus station onto the industrial estate bus.

The super prison will have inmates and visitors from a wide part of N Wales, North West England and beyond and not just Chester. If someone has committed to visiting by public transport they will naturally be inclined to travel to the nearest station and then get a bus rather than stop short and use two different bus journeys.

Still once we get an 0825 ish arrival into Shrewsbury off the Cambrian next May the numbers using it will dwarf any new traffic generated by the prison.

 

[merlodlliw]

I am well aware there aren't any direct buses from Chester to the Wrexham Industrial Estate, and I never said there was.

The Number 1 is also every 12 minutes not 10.

As I said people coming from Chester are unlikely to use the once an hour train, then walk to Wrexham bus station, when they could get the more frequent and cheaper #1 bus service to Wrexham, then change at the bus station onto the industrial estate bus.

The bus service to the prison is funded by MOJ to to run hourly from General station for three years to connect with trains.Those families with travel passes will use General station,
I do not see the point in getting a train from say Manchester to Chester,then having to change on to two buses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The super prison will have inmates and visitors from a wide part of N Wales, North West England and beyond and not just Chester. If someone has committed to visiting by public transport they will naturally be inclined to travel to the nearest station and then get a bus rather than stop short and use two different bus journeys.

Still once we get an 0825 ish arrival into Shrewsbury off the Cambrian next May the numbers using it will dwarf any new traffic generated by the prison.

I hope you are correct about the 0825 into Salop,a bit like our 0747 from Wrexham which arrives full into Salop at the same time, but we are to loose that to the Cambrian if ATW have their way, and its not set in stone yet.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Still once we get an 0825 ish arrival into Shrewsbury off the Cambrian next May the numbers using it will dwarf any new traffic generated by the prison.

I hope you are correct about the 0825 into Salop,a bit like our 0747 from Wrexham which arrives full into Salop at the same time, but we are to loose that to the Cambrian if ATW have their way, and its not set in stone yet.

Converted London Underground stock isn't going to be suitable to help out if and when services like the extra Cambrians fill up. We need more regional express DMUs, or push-pull LHCS like Gerald and the new north Wales train, to boost capacity and frequencies without going backwards in terms of passenger comfort.

 

[quarella]

It is being built as I write, There is no bus service to the Industrial Estate from Chester.everything goes to Wrexham. Chester/ Wrexham number one is every ten minutes, but only serves Chester Business Park, at its nearest point this service is three miles from the prison, it is Arrivas most lucrative service in North Wales & wont be diverted.
To get a service bus from Holyhead would take four to five hours with numerous changes,the train takes two hours direct.

If the thousands you keep quoting are going to be travelling to and from this prison a bus service will operate.

Most normal users of public transport use the most suitable means based on a number of criteria for the journey being made so in for travelling from Holyhead would probably use the train from Holyhead connecting in to a bus from Chester or Wrexham, whichever is appropriate. The two modes should not be competitive but complementary feeding in and out of each other.

 

[merlodlliw]

As a Wrexhamite I am still aggrieved we are to loose two services in a major populated area, when other Arriva Trains Wales areas are gaining extra services.

We have already lost a busy Arriva Trains Wales Bank Holiday service in this new timetable due to Virgin Trains never running its London service from Wrexham on public holidays and not identifying the fact.

 

[berneyarms]

While I understand people in Wrexham are a bit peeved, the fact remains that the connection to stations to Birmingham is still there - it's just about 10 minutes earlier than currently and involves a change at Shrewsbury. Yes it is mildly inconvenient, but it's not as if the connection is being completely withdrawn. With any timetable change it is inevitable that someone will lose out. I'd be more concerned if ATW were not offering a replacement - it's not perfect, but it's not unreasonable.

Re the Bank Holiday - did you not get independent confirmation that ATW would provide a service (even though it is not in the printed timetable)? I seem to recall a post in the mists of time stating that they would?

 

[Gareth Marston]

If the thousands you keep quoting are going to be travelling to and from this prison a bus service will operate.

Most normal users of public transport use the most suitable means based on a number of criteria for the journey being made so in for travelling from Holyhead would probably use the train from Holyhead connecting in to a bus from Chester or Wrexham, whichever is appropriate. The two modes should not be competitive but complementary feeding in and out of each other.

Is there expected to be a lot of prisoners from Holyhead?

 

[merlodlliw]

Is there expected to be a lot of prisoners from Holyhead?

I am told several hundred will be from North Wales,the rest from the North West of England and Midlands.

 

[quarella]

Is there expected to be a lot of prisoners from Holyhead?

Oops. Didn't notice how a slight revision just before posting could be interpreted. I meant of course a bus from Wrexham or Chester. On an old map Holyhead is past the "There be dragons" warning so there may be sufficient demand for a non stop coach from Holyhead to the prison.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Oops. Didn't notice how a slight revision just before posting could be interpreted. I meant of course a bus from Wrexham or Chester. On an old map Holyhead is past the "There be dragons" warning so there may be sufficient demand for a non stop coach from Holyhead to the prison.

150 per 100,000 of the population are in prison at anyone time. So there might be a grand total of around 900 north walians in the system with about 15 from Holyhead. Prisoners can have a weekly visit depending on category and policy at individual prisons. Those that get regular visits are statistically less likely to reoffend, though 12% never get a single visit. Between 5&10% of the prison population regularly says their of traveller ethnicity. 41% have no qualifications compare to 15% in the general population.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I noticed on a run over the offending line this week that there are still 2 significant sections of old jointed track.
These are north of Rossett (eastern track) and under the A55 (western).
As far as I could see none of the level crossings is finished.
So there's still plenty to do in the next blockade.

 

[merlodlliw]

I noticed on a run over the offending line this week that there are still 2 significant sections of old jointed track.
These are north of Rossett (eastern track) and under the A55 (western).
As far as I could see none of the level crossings is finished.
So there's still plenty to do in the next blockade.

With the technical experience of Network Rail on a £44million contract,the job is slipping months late, im told next July is now being looked at for finish on this section. From what I understand NRs contracts dont have penalty clauses for late completion, unlike other industries.
Thanks for the info LNW GW Joint

 

[Gareth Marston]

With the technical experience of Network Rail on a £44million contract,the job is slipping months late, im told next July is now being looked at for finish on this section. From what I understand NRs contracts dont have penalty clauses for late completion, unlike other industries.
Thanks for the info LNW GW Joint

Same problems of lateness with Aberystwyth station refurbishment and Hereford access for all bridge. Contractors rock up start the job put fences up then clear off for weeks on end then come back and do a little bit more, clear off again. It seems endemic in the working practices.

 

[merlodlliw]

Same problems of lateness with Aberystwyth station refurbishment and Hereford access for all bridge. Contractors rock up start the job put fences up then clear off for weeks on end then come back and do a little bit more, clear off again. It seems endemic in the working practices.

Its much like the lift between platform three and four at Wrexham General,built four years ago,never used for the first year, due to someone at NR not realizing there was no three phase power supply to operate it,then for two years NR supplied a generator using part of the station car park to run it,this has now been removed due to pressure from NCP/ATW.
So no lift working for the past year, now NR have a private security firm on duty 18 hours a day X 7 days, just in case someone needs the lift between 3 & 4, they will escort anyone to platform 4, via the roadbridge,off platform one. European money paid for the lift, good value or what.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Its much like the lift between platform three and four at Wrexham General,built four years ago,never used for the first year, due to someone at NR not realizing there was no three phase power supply to operate it,then for two years NR supplied a generator using part of the station car park to run it,this has now been removed due to pressure from NCP/ATW.
So no lift working for the past year, now NR have a private security firm on duty 18 hours a day X 7 days, just in case someone needs the lift between 3 & 4, they will escort anyone to platform 4, via the roadbridge,off platform one. European money paid for the lift, good value or what.

Four years and they still haven't bought a 3-phase supply from the electricity company?

 

[merlodlliw]

Four years and they still haven't bought a 3-phase supply from the electricity company?

Scottish Power told NR, to run a new three phase supply, it would have to be undergound from the Football Ground side, under the railway lines.

It transpired the supply running the lifts from platforms one to two was not capable of running three sets of lifts simultaneously,So Scottish Power refused to connect the new lift to the supply,it appears NR presumed there was sufficient voltage without doing a study, I imagine the cost would be enormous to rectify the error,NR must be paying the security firm a large amount also.
The few if any who would have used the lift,also means few know about this problem.

 

[edwin_m]

Given how rarely the lifts are probably used, surely the answer would be a control system which doesn't allow the third lift to move while the other two are already moving?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Given how rarely the lifts are probably used, surely the answer would be a control system which doesn't allow the third lift to move while the other two are already moving?

Are we saying that "access for all" is a thin market?

 

[merlodlliw]

Given how rarely the lifts are probably used, surely the answer would be a control system which doesn't allow the third lift to move while the other two are already moving?

The lifts on Platform one & Two/Three are in frequent use,those who use the Bidston line use Central.

 

[edwin_m]

The lifts on Platform one & Two/Three are in frequent use,those who use the Bidston line use Central.

What % of the time is "frequent"? Probably only intensive use when a train has just arrived, and this could be two lifts at once if one of them leads to the platform of the train and the other one to the station exit. But all three?

 

[jamesbwxm]

Scottish Power told NR, to run a new three phase supply, it would have to be undergound from the Football Ground side, under the railway lines.

So what did SP put the power cable down the pavement by the bus stop, coupled with the new cabinet I saw them connect up on the entrance road for? They also dug across the Mold Road. Suspect it went in parallel with a supply for the new retail park over the road.

The generator disappeared a few months ago, the chavs, sorry - security guards, not long afterwards.

Although I admit it was a fairly daft situation at the time.

 

[merlodlliw]

What % of the time is "frequent"? Probably only intensive use when a train has just arrived, and this could be two lifts at once if one of them leads to the platform of the train and the other one to the station exit. But all three?

I would suggest the lefts are used on every train arriving departing platforms two and three.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So what did SP put the power cable down the pavement by the bus stop, coupled with the new cabinet I saw them connect up on the entrance road for? They also dug across the Mold Road. Suspect it went in parallel with a supply for the new retail park over the road.

The generator disappeared a few months ago, the chavs, sorry - security guards, not long afterwards.

Although I admit it was a fairly daft situation at the time.

S P dug up the road to power the new retail park opposite the station(old esso petrol station) and take new feeds to the Premier Inn (Jacques) park.

I last saw the security(with a small s) in early November,