Wrexham redouble

[Gareth Marston]

So what has he actually achieved so far Bob?

You could say the same about Lembit Opik, Simon Thomas and Paul Marsden. All former MP's in Shropshire and Mid Wales but we will have by next year extra trains on the Cambrian and through trains from Salop to London. All of which they lobbied for, how much of their lobbying in years gone by helped push the door ajar for the more recent efforts?

No one individual is going to hit the jackpot it's cumulative effort over time.

 

[po8crg]

Because it's a parliament with 650 (ish) MPs in, no one MP can do anything. What they have to do is to persuade other MPs that something is in a wider interest, and not just their own constituents' interest.

So long-term, steady lobbying efforts are exactly what successful MPs do. As long as they keep pushing, don't complain they haven't yet got what was wanted.

 

[merlodlliw]

So what has he actually achieved so far Bob?

Hes only been an AM for three years, in that time Aled Roberts, has raised more railway questions within the Senedd than any other A.M.
He was the lead member in getting the Wrexham to Barmouth bus service kept running by GHA Motors of Ruabon when Arriva Bus gave up the service in December 2013,this service is a lifeline to many and the only form of public transport between Llangollen and Dolgellau.
Has for the Saltney/Wrexham redouble, behind the scenes he has met with the Minister, had his personal debate in the Senedd devoted to North Wales railways supported by Mark Isherwood A.M and new Anglesey AM Rhun ap Iorwerth.
Currently both Aled Roberts and Mark Isherwood are questioning the cut back to the Chester/Wrexham redoubles lack of extra capacity,without question in my mind,it was Aled Roberts deep understanding of the area raising questions that was a final decider in Minister Edwina Hart announcing the go ahead of the partial redouble last year. Aled Roberts is also taking the lead on questioning the axing of the 0634 Llandudno/Manchester travel to work train in December and the similar axing of the 0747 Wrexham to Birmingham service next year.

Of other interest to Forum members is this Weeks North Wales Rail news board which has many pictures of the partial redouble taken at the weekend and the chaos on the A 483 with queues six miles long last Saturday between Chester and Wrexham due to roadworks.link http://nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Of other interest to Forum members is this Weeks North Wales Rail news board which has many pictures of the partial redouble taken at the weekend and the chaos on the A 483 with queues six miles long last Saturday between Chester and Wrexham due to roadworks.link http://nwrail.org.uk/nwnews.htm

Pity the signwriter couldn't spell the word "Scheme".
And I see the strange abbreviation "NWR" for Network Rail has made an official appearance as well.
The new junction at Rossett doesn't look right yet.
Won't it all have to be slewed to the west to avoid that kink?

 

[Sox]

Drove down the south bound A483 near Rossett (North Wales) last week and clocked the new track sections being stored adjacent ex railway.

 

[merlodlliw]

Drove down the south bound A483 near Rossett (North Wales) last week and clocked the new track sections being stored adjacent ex railway.

I also drove the A 483 yesterday morning and returned towards Wrexham at 2pm much better view view travelling South due to vegetation,did not notice any Colas staff working on site Wrexham side of the overbridge,presume its night work now.

 

[TDK]

I drove the route on Saturday and the double track is roughly laid up to just before Balderton with gaps. The level crossings apart from Green Lane are now double track. The junction at Rosset is installed. Some of the new track is being used for running as well as the old. I would realistically say it is 25%complete at the most time wise. Oh yes there is a 50mph ESR for a long stretch.

 

[merlodlliw]

I drove the route on Saturday and the double track is roughly laid up to just before Balderton with gaps. The level crossings apart from Green Lane are now double track. The junction at Rosset is installed. Some of the new track is being used for running as well as the old. I would realistically say it is 25%complete at the most time wise. Oh yes there is a 50mph ESR for a long stretch.

I understand ATW have rushed out the official December 2014 timetable for consultation to stakeholders, the timings on the line from December will be interesting,I have yet to see a copy,perhaps your colleagues will know.
Thanks for your comments.

 

[TDK]

I understand ATW have rushed out the official December 2014 timetable for consultation to stakeholders, the timings on the line from December will be interesting,I have yet to see a copy,perhaps your colleagues will know.
Thanks for your comments.

We won't know anything before the media know and if we did we couldn't divulge anything it's in our contract. I cannot see realistically much change until the project is complete with the speed upgraded from Gobowen to Salop to be fair as the extra double track will not save enough time to get slots at either Shrewsbury or Wolverhampton.

 

[The Planner]

Doubt the Dec 14 timetable shows it unless ATW bid for changes assuming the works were complete. I'm not sure they did.

 

[merlodlliw]

Two page article in todays Daily Post on the merits of the redouble by Eryl Crump, sorry its not on the web.

Bob

 

[merlodlliw]

Yesterday I was informed by Aled Roberts AM for North Wales, that yesterdays Welsh Government budget for the next two years, includes £10millions for transport in North Wales, I have been assured this is for extra capacity between Wrexham and Chester ,missing from the current part redouble.
Aled Roberts whose offices are in Wrexham has been in discussions with the Minister,and has Welsh Government has no majority, this was one of the conditions(Wrexham/Chester extra capacity) for Welsh Liberals not opposing the two year budget.

This is excellent news for our line. full story here from the Daily Post http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/lib-dems-strike-two-year-7856777

"The Welsh Government has struck a £223 million two year deal with the Liberal Democrats to secure its spending plans next year.

Welsh Lib Dem leader Kirsty Williams announced the party would not oppose Labour’s draft budget to be published later today after an agreement on a range of funding commitments.

Some £95m capital investment in infrastructure will boost jobs and the economy, with the £22m replacement of the Dyfi Bridge on the A487 at Machynlleth linking Gwynedd with Powys and preparatory works on the A483 Pant and Llanymynech bypass.

Some £10m will be allocated for a transport project in North, the details of which are yet to be developed."

 

[Railman]

Is this not the same £10 million for the Halton chord project, but just announced again. The fine details being the final design and who will run the service once its built?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is this not the same £10 million for the Halton chord project, but just announced again. The fine details being the final design and who will run the service once its built?

No it's Welsh pounds not English pounds.
Not directly for Halton.

 

[merlodlliw]

Is this not the same £10 million for the Halton chord project, but just announced again. The fine details being the final design and who will run the service once its built?

No its Welsh Government money for the Wrexham/Chester line to enhance capacity left out of the current part redouble.. Totally separate from Westminsters Halton Curve money.

Bob

 

[berneyarms]

Good news - now let's hope a spare train can be found to form the Wrexham/Birmingham commuter service from somewhere.

 

[merlodlliw]

Good news - now let's hope a spare train can be found to form the Wrexham/Birmingham commuter service from somewhere.

I should have put this statement up on this thread has its more relevant & explains it better.


From Wednesdays Wrexham Leader, sorry its not on the web

A SUM of £10 million for improved North Wales transport links was secured as part of the Labour-Liberal Democrat agreement.

Quote:
'Liberal Democrat AM Aled Roberts and the Welsh Government to create more
capacity for direct train services to Liverpool and Manchester.
These were lost when the original scheme to dual the line
between Wrexham and Chester was dropped.
Mr Roberts said: "I am delighted to secure £10m extra for North Wales. "One of the options I will be discussing with the Welsh Government is dualling part of the line between Wrexham and Chester which was dropped from the original investment scheme. That would bring substantial benefits for train travellers.
"The UK Government is also investing over £10m in the improvement of the Halton Curve in Cheshire which is a major bottleneck for trains
travelling from North Wales."
As part of the agreement, a pledge was made not to build the new M4 relief road before the next Assembly elections.

 

[berneyarms]

Thanks for that update!

Interesting times for Welsh railways.

 

[Rhydgaled]

So, having put in a new single-to-double track junction part way between Wrexham and Chester, Network Rail will be back a few months later to move the single-to-double junction further towards Wrexham? Or is it actually going to be a full redouble of the entire Wrexham-Chester line?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So, having put in a new single-to-double track junction part way between Wrexham and Chester, Network Rail will be back a few months later to move the single-to-double junction further towards Wrexham? Or is it actually going to be a full redouble of the entire Wrexham-Chester line?

I don't think anything recently installed will be changed.
The missing bits are putting in another 2-mile double track section from Gresford to Wrexham (leaving the 2-mile Gresford bank as single), and raising the 60mph line speed on the lines not renewed to match the new (90mph north of Rossett, 75mph south).
Sadly I think they have installed a 60mph switch at Rossett so that will be a permanent handicap.

 

[HowardGWR]

I don't think anything recently installed will be changed.
The missing bits are putting in another 2-mile double track section from Gresford to Wrexham (leaving the 2-mile Gresford bank as single), and raising the 60mph line speed on the lines not renewed to match the new (90mph north of Rossett, 75mph south).
Sadly I think they have installed a 60mph switch at Rossett so that will be a permanent handicap.

Is that (bold) because they only built a single line bridge over the A483 bypass?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is that (bold) because they only built a single line bridge over the A483 bypass?

Yes, and supposedly there is a better (faster) alignment with the single line.
I think the geology of doubling that section would be difficult (embankment works etc), as well as the cost of a new bridge.
Of course the A483 alongside just breezes through.

 

[merlodlliw]

I have been sent an advance copy of a story to appear in Monday 6th October Wrexham Leader,

Wrexham super prison could cripple rail network,written by staff reporter,Wrexham Leader



"THOUSANDS of extra passengers on Wrexham’s rail network resulting from the proposed new prison could cripple the county’s train lines unless capacity is upped.

Figures seen by MP Ian Lucas relating to the rail station near the site of a prison in Addiewell, Scotland, showed passenger numbers had increased by nearly 10,000 over the five years after the prison opened in December 2008.

The planned prison for Wrexham Industrial Estate will be three times that size – the biggest jail in Britain with 2,100 inmates – if full planning permission is approved by Wrexham council’s planning committee today.

And Mr Lucas said the effects could cause “real problems” for the line in dealing with the capacity of passengers for staff and visitors to the massive lock-up.

HMP Addiewell holds 700 inmates and the village saw an increase in rail passengers from 15,012 in 2008-09 to 25,738 in 2009-10 after the jail.

Mr Lucas welcomed a Welsh Government-funded project to double parts of the track.

Work has started on £49m upgrades to re-double the Wrexham to Chester track system – specifically between Rossett junction and Saltney junction.

But he called for more work to be done to deal with the expected extra passengers.

He said: “We’ve seen a very substantial increase already in rail traffic on the line and that is why the doubling that is proposed is welcome,

“But that doubling is not enough.

“Firstly, I think the traffic will increase in any event but obviously the prison will have an impact on the scale of the increase.

“The evidence from Scotland is that for a prison which is a third of the size, there was a very significant increase from the year the prison opened. I expect an even larger increase in Wrexham.

“This all means there will be real problems for capacity on the line if we don’t have more trains than are currently planned

“We need to get extra doubling between Wrexham General and Gresford Bank. It is that bridge which is the problem because it goes into a single track. If we have doubling there, we could have a half-hourly service on the line to reduce the pressure.”

Work has yet to begin on constructing the £212m prison but the Ministry of Justice confirmed last week it is still expected to be operational by late 2017.

Planning permission for reserved matters is expected to be approved at a Wrexham Council planning meeting at the Guildhall today.

The meeting begins at 6.30pm.

A Network Rail spokesperson said a five-year programme to invest in and modernise Welsh railways would include improvements to Wrexham and
the surrounding area.

They added: “We’re working with our funders and partners, including Wrexham Council and Welsh Government, to see how the railway can respond to future increases in demand and new journey patterns.

“Additionally, we welcome the opportunity to consider new station
proposals with our funders.”

ends.

I am pleased to see the local MP for Wrexham getting involved,however the missing 2.5 miles of dual track between Gresford & General station is the key to extra capacity, however dual the lot now,while Colas are on site.

 

[The Informer]

Its not as simple as that Bob. This could go round in circles for years again. I'd love to see it all re-doubled properley and be done with it.

 

[Chester1]

I have been sent an advance copy of a story to appear in Monday 6th October Wrexham Leader,



I am pleased to see the local MP for Wrexham getting involved,however the missing 2.5 miles of dual track between Gresford & General station is the key to extra capacity, however dual the lot now,while Colas are on site.

Its not as simple as that Bob. This could go round in circles for years again. I'd love to see it all re-doubled properley and be done with it.

I simply don't see the point. The cheaper dualing would have allowed an extra 1tph or more. The more expensive dualing will mean it could support several trains per hour each way. I think more than may ever be needed. 2.5 miles of single track, assuming a standing start is a bottle neck of 4 mins (ish), which is perfectly acceptable for the line. The remaining question for Chester-Wrexham is whether to build stations at Rossett and Saltney/Lache.

 

[HowardGWR]

Anybody know what the max speed was when it was double line (thinking of the point made in post 622 by @LNW-GW Joint). Surely in the northerly Chester direction a standing start from Wrexham would not demand a speed limit being needed?

 

[berneyarms]

II am pleased to see the local MP for Wrexham getting involved,however the missing 2.5 miles of dual track between Gresford & General station is the key to extra capacity, however dual the lot now,while Colas are on site.

Contracts would have been signed, materials ordered, work schedules planned. You are not going to suddenly get a change of plan now.

If it happens it will be a separate project.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Anybody know what the max speed was when it was double line (thinking of the point made in post 622 by @LNW-GW Joint). Surely in the northerly Chester direction a standing start from Wrexham would not demand a speed limit being needed?

I believe under the Western Region is was a 90mph line, like most of their main lines.
The LMR downgraded it progressively from the mid-60s, and made it 60mph when it was singled (and also 70mph Wrexham-Wolverhampton).
Some of the track recently replaced dated from the early 60s.
The Chester-Wolverhampton route was never "sprinterised" like some lines (eg Marches main line).
The WR at least kept the Cotswold line and the Kemble line at 90mph when they were singled, and even raised speed restrictions in places where they could get a straighter alignment.
The LMR put all its money in the WCML.

 

[merlodlliw]

might as well put this here. Has its the same line,from a colleague in the trade

Not a great start to a Monday.(6th October)

the 06.10 SHR to WRX was cancelled due to a member of train crew being
unavailable. Px advised to travel on the 07.00.
the 07.47 WRX to BHI was also cancelled due to no train crew with a bus
leaving at 07.47 calling all stations to SHR due in at 09.02.

Then a freight delay due to poor rail head conditions around Craven Arms
with knock on delays up to an hour. Road transport ceased 11.54.

I presume the knock on effect, meant the Bidston line was a DMU short with the 0610 cancelled, which on arrival at Wrexham goes to Bidston.
Looks like the 0700 Shrewsbury/Wrexham was also cancelled.

 

[berneyarms]

The Bidston services appear to have all operated - it looks like the set was already in Wrexham having come from Chester.