Tyne & Wear Metro: Fleet Refurbishment List

[Scott M]

I cba for the leaves on the line crap this year, had it the past 2.

Got to the point where I gave up on following the time table in the morning as it would inevitably say 'Delays to service, Metro apologise.'

Hopefully them chopping down the trees will help, as I had noticed that myself.

Also just a quick question - does anybody know why the signal at the end of Simonside platform 2 only turns from red to green when you finish coming around the corner prior to it? I thought signals change depending on the position of the train infront of them, not the train approaching them.

 

[ModernRailways]

I cba for the leaves on the line crap this year, had it the past 2.

Got to the point where I gave up on following the time table in the morning as it would inevitably say 'Delays to service, Metro apologise.'

Hopefully them chopping down the trees will help, as I had noticed that myself.

Also just a quick question - does anybody know why the signal at the end of Simonside platform 2 only turns from red to green when you finish coming around the corner prior to it? I thought signals change depending on the position of the train infront of them, not the train approaching them.

Approach control similar to Jarrow I believe. More or less to ensure drivers slow down and stop. The signal will clear whatever the speed you're doing (unless there is a train ahead) though.

 

[Scott M]

Approach control similar to Jarrow I believe. More or less to ensure drivers slow down and stop. The signal will clear whatever the speed you're doing (unless there is a train ahead) though.

Seems a bit of an odd place to have a signal like that. All that is ahead of it is a straight, double-lined section to Bede.

 

[ModernRailways]

Seems a bit of an odd place to have a signal like that. All that is ahead of it is a straight, double-lined section to Bede.

It all depends really, it will mean the signal prior will display a yellow 'caution' aspect which will in turn remind the driver the station is there.

Simonside is right after a curve and so isn't visible until you're almost right on top of it IIRC. I don't venture down that way though so couldn't tell you, but I'm sure someone else will let you know if I'm wrong

 

[142094]

The signal before Simonside is the platform starter at Tyne Dock. To save money, when the 2 aspect signalling was installed, traffic signs were used to act as a repeater instead of an actual signal. This is quite commonplace on the system.

Reason the signal at Simonside is approach controlled is the fact that trains can be turned back at Bede platform 2, so this signal will only clear when a train approaches from Tyne Dock and when there is no train in Bede platform 2. Control at South Gosforth can 'pull' the signal manually if needed to speed up the process, such as if an out of service train is going to run straight through.

 

[Scott M]

The signal before Simonside is the platform starter at Tyne Dock. To save money, when the 2 aspect signalling was installed, traffic signs were used to act as a repeater instead of an actual signal. This is quite commonplace on the system.

Reason the signal at Simonside is approach controlled is the fact that trains can be turned back at Bede platform 2, so this signal will only clear when a train approaches from Tyne Dock and when there is no train in Bede platform 2. Control at South Gosforth can 'pull' the signal manually if needed to speed up the process, such as if an out of service train is going to run straight through.

So you're saying the signal at the end of Simonside platform 2 just repeats the signal at the end of Tyne Dock platform 2?

But if that is the case, why would it remain on red when a train is in Bede platform 2 (as a train at Bede platform 2 wouldn't cause the signal at Tyne Dock to be red).

Sorry for misunderstanding.

 

[142094]

So you're saying the signal at the end of Simonside platform 2 just repeats the signal at the end of Tyne Dock platform 2?

But if that is the case, why would it remain on red when a train is in Bede platform 2 (as a train at Bede platform 2 wouldn't cause the signal at Tyne Dock to be red).

Sorry for misunderstanding.

The signal at the end of Tyne Dock platform 2 can show either a green or a red - green if there is no train between Tyne Dock and Simonside, red if there is. Under normal 2 aspect signalling there would be a repeater signal between Tyne Dock and Simonside - the repeater would either show a green or yellow (green if the signal at Simonside platform 2 is 'Off' or yellow if the signal is 'On' i.e. red). However, to save on costs the repeater signal is replaced by a triangular road sign which shows this and the distance to the next signal in metres underneath. This sign basically means the same as a yellow aspect on a repeater signal.

This was probably done as having extra signals would have cost a lot more money and also I assume because trains do not regularly skip stations, so no need for an actual 2 aspect repeater if the signal is after a platform. However, if you take Central Station to Gateshead as another example, you'll see the situation where a 2 aspect repeater is required. The signal at Central platform 1 shows either green or red. Next signal is a repeater just after the bridge which shows either green or yellow. Next signal is before the platform (669 signal I believe) which can show either a yellow or red. The repeater here is needed as the next signal (669) is before the platform (i.e. protects a train stationary in platform 1 at Gateshead), so the driver needs to know when to start braking.

You don't often see that repeater on a yellow unless the train in front is delayed or there is disruption. One of the best ones to show you the signalling is probably between Gateshead and Gateshead Stadium. When leaving Gateshead during the peak towards Pelaw, there is a good chance that the next signal will be showing a yellow aspect which normally only changes to green half way down the tunnel.

 

[tez thorn]

doesnt Whitley Bay have one too

 

[142094]

Whitley Bay is a bit of an anomaly, will explain it better later.

 

[tez thorn]

Whitley Bay is a bit of an anomaly, will explain it better later.

haha, one of them long stories

 

[142094]

haha, one of them long stories

Aye, I'll try and keep it short. Platform 2 is the easiest to explain - the signal there is a 2 aspect and can show either green or red. Unfortunately the next signal is way off as Cullercoats plt 2 doesn't have a signal, so if for whatever reason there are delays, a train leaving Whitley Bay has to get a fair distance down the track (to be a bit more precise, 3/4 of the way between Cullercoats and Tynemouth) before the signal at Whitley Bay platform 2 will clear to green. I think this is one of the longest signal sections on the system, although Howdon - Percy Main and Percy Main - North Shields are both good candidates.

Right, platform 1 is a bit more complex. The signal on platform 1 is a 3 aspect signal (one of those anomalies on the system) - not sure what number it is but for simplicity I'll call it signal A. The next signal towards Monkseaton is also a 3 aspect signal - signal B. Signal C is the last signal before Monkseaton platform 1 and is two aspect.

So signal A will show a red when there is a train in the section between signal A and signal B. Signal A shows a yellow signal when there is a train between signal B and C. Signal A shows a green when signal B shows a yellow and so on - normal 3 aspect signalling.

Signal A can show a yellow and a train can proceed to signal B then be routed into Monkseaton sidings. A train can also be terminated at Monkseaton platform 2 from Whitley Bay - when this happens, signal A shows a green, signal B shows a yellow then signal C shows a red. The train normally then has to stop at signal C and wait for a yellow aspect and the junction indicator to go onto the opposite line.

However, what makes things interesting is that when travelling from West Monkseaton to Monkseaton, a train can be turned back either in Monkseaton sidings or on the In line behind signal C. For example this would only be done if there was engineering works on between Monkseaton and Whitley Bay, but a failed train was already in Monkseaton sidings.

Quite complex but clever when you know what can happen.

 

[Scott M]

Aye, I'll try and keep it short. Platform 2 is the easiest to explain - the signal there is a 2 aspect and can show either green or red. Unfortunately the next signal is way off as Cullercoats plt 2 doesn't have a signal, so if for whatever reason there are delays, a train leaving Whitley Bay has to get a fair distance down the track (to be a bit more precise, 3/4 of the way between Cullercoats and Tynemouth) before the signal at Whitley Bay platform 2 will clear to green. I think this is one of the longest signal sections on the system, although Howdon - Percy Main and Percy Main - North Shields are both good candidates.

Right, platform 1 is a bit more complex. The signal on platform 1 is a 3 aspect signal (one of those anomalies on the system) - not sure what number it is but for simplicity I'll call it signal A. The next signal towards Monkseaton is also a 3 aspect signal - signal B. Signal C is the last signal before Monkseaton platform 1 and is two aspect.

So signal A will show a red when there is a train in the section between signal A and signal B. Signal A shows a yellow signal when there is a train between signal B and C. Signal A shows a green when signal B shows a yellow and so on - normal 3 aspect signalling.

Signal A can show a yellow and a train can proceed to signal B then be routed into Monkseaton sidings. A train can also be terminated at Monkseaton platform 2 from Whitley Bay - when this happens, signal A shows a green, signal B shows a yellow then signal C shows a red. The train normally then has to stop at signal C and wait for a yellow aspect and the junction indicator to go onto the opposite line.

However, what makes things interesting is that when travelling from West Monkseaton to Monkseaton, a train can be turned back either in Monkseaton sidings or on the In line behind signal C. For example this would only be done if there was engineering works on between Monkseaton and Whitley Bay, but a failed train was already in Monkseaton sidings.

Quite complex but clever when you know what can happen.

Thanks for the explanations!

You seem to know a lot. Are you a metro driver?

 

[142094]

Thanks for the explanations!

You seem to know a lot. Are you a metro driver?

Someone with too much time on their hands! Did quite a lot of research for a project that never happened. The signalling on the system is quite interesting, especially for the combinations of movements that can happen.

 

[Scott M]

Someone with too much time on their hands! Did quite a lot of research for a project that never happened. The signalling on the system is quite interesting, especially for the combinations of movements that can happen.

Ahh I see. What was the project going to be about?

Two delays this week caused by passengers. On Thursday I was delayed because a passenger had pulled the emergency break as a joke, and today I was stopped between Felgate and Pelaw for about 20 mins because a drunk guy was on the track at Pelaw.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Bloody fools! Honestly throw the book at them

Its dangerous, causes delays and can lead to a fine of up to £1000

Has anyone noticed if they've fixed the PA? I haven't been on the Metro for quite a while

 

[Scott M]

Bloody fools! Honestly throw the book at them



Has anyone noticed if they've fixed the PA? I haven't been on the Metro for quite a while

If you mean the PA on the trains it's improving, but you still get maybe 1/10 trains which seem to have it switched off. I don't mind though as I know my way around.

Seen 4001 pass through sunderland (heading towards newcastle) with Not In Service on the front, and South Gosforth on the back, today at around 5pm - anybody know the story behind that?

Also I am digging the new newcastle airport livery on one of the trains. They should have made that purple one of the colour options back when they had the block colours.

 

[ModernRailways]

today I was stopped between Felgate and Pelaw for about 20 mins because a drunk guy was on the track at Pelaw.

If it was this evening. A guy jumped off the bridge at Heworth, suicidal I believe. Service was part suspended, then went to major delays. Classed as a Police Incident as Metro aren't allowed to say the cause until the Police have confirmed it.

 

[Tramfan]

Seen 4001 pass through sunderland (heading towards newcastle) with Not In Service on the front, and South Gosforth on the back, today at around 5pm - anybody know the story behind that?

Would have been the additional service Train 141 which runs empty from Sunderland to St Peters and then into service for the Sunderland home game at that time:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N44729/2014/09/27/advanced

 

[Scott M]

If it was this evening. A guy jumped off the bridge at Heworth, suicidal I believe. Service was part suspended, then went to major delays. Classed as a Police Incident as Metro aren't allowed to say the cause until the Police have confirmed it.

Ohh in that case I will edit my post as it was a bit insensitive. I hope the guy is ok.

Would have been the additional service Train 141 which runs empty from Sunderland to St Peters and then into service for the Sunderland home game at that time:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N44729/2014/09/27/advanced

Quite good of metro to put on extra services for the game.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Looks like the temporary speed limit at Fawdon is here to stay for the winter as its been up for quite some weeks now, also from the seems the PA has been fixed and is now tellin the changing points and what not which is good

Another positive is the gates seem to be in frequent use now, and theres not so many staff on them so have they managed to hire people to man the gates or split up the revenue teams?

 

[ModernRailways]

Another positive is the gates seem to be in frequent use now, and theres not so many staff on them so have they managed to hire people to man the gates or split up the revenue teams?

The gates have been in 'full-time' mode since the 18th September I believe. Staff got their new rotas then and that was when they started properly. The fact their are less staff is because previously it had to be a whole revenue team which consists of around 5 or 6 staff. Now, because the rotas have been changed it means that only 2 / 3 staff need to be manning them and the other 2 / 3 staff left will be on the gateline elsewhere.



Went up to Airport the other day since I hadn't been up that way for a while, and the wheelslip was tremendous! Driver came over the PA apologising for the poor ride quality and said 'Sorry for the poor ride quality there leaving Regent Centre but the leaves are falling now and these train needs to get a grip'. I'm sure the 'train needs to get a grip' was supposed to be a joke as a few people had a little smirk

 

[Scott M]

Looks like the temporary speed limit at Fawdon is here to stay for the winter as its been up for quite some weeks now, also from the seems the PA has been fixed and is now tellin the changing points and what not which is good

Another positive is the gates seem to be in frequent use now, and theres not so many staff on them so have they managed to hire people to man the gates or split up the revenue teams?

Wouldn't jump the gun just yet - was on a Regent Centre train this morning and all it announced was 'The next station is Monument'. And yeah I have noticed an increase in the frequency of the gate use.

Went up to Airport the other day since I hadn't been up that way for a while, and the wheelslip was tremendous! Driver came over the PA apologising for the poor ride quality and said 'Sorry for the poor ride quality there leaving Regent Centre but the leaves are falling now and these train needs to get a grip'. I'm sure the 'train needs to get a grip' was supposed to be a joke as a few people had a little smirk

Great... here's to another autumn/winter of delays due to wheel slip.

At least you finally got your wish for a driver announcement.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Wouldn't jump the gun just yet - was on a Regent Centre train this morning and all it announced was 'The next station is Monument'. And yeah I have noticed an increase in the frequency of the gate use.



Great... here's to another autumn/winter of delays due to wheel slip.

At least you finally got your wish for a driver announcement.

Short works never have those announcements as it's not really a line service.


And that's why the trains are all over the place, gotta love some Low Rail Adhesion

 

[Scott M]

Short works never have those announcements as it's not really a line service.


And that's why the trains are all over the place, gotta love some Low Rail Adhesion

Ahh fair.

And I certainly don't love it when it makes me late in the morning!

 

[ModernRailways]

Great... here's to another autumn/winter of delays due to wheel slip.

At least you finally got your wish for a driver announcement.

As always, Nexus haven't really done much though to prevent it! They send a road rail vehicle out in the morning but that's it and by the evening the leaves have fell and are causing chaos.

I've had two drivers speak since my little moan on here - maybe they are lurkers or even contributors?

 

[MetroCar4058]

As always, Nexus haven't really done much though to prevent it! They send a road rail vehicle out in the morning but that's it and by the evening the leaves have fell and are causing chaos.

Wouldn't it be hard to put the RR out during service though? I assume it goes allot slower than the MetroCar and therefore couldn't run along the central belt. (if thats true) I can only see it being able to work Regent - Airport without delaying services, now if we still had Benton sidings it could probably still work up towards that way but otherwise wouldn't it cause delays?

Just been reading around, have Nexus dropped the idea to double Hebburn - Bede or is it something they are getting around to?

 

[142094]

Quite good of metro to put on extra services for the game.

Most of these are added to the timetable at short notice, which means they are not advertised. For Newcastle matches, there are often extra trains from St. James to Longbenton/Pelaw, trains from Pelaw to St. James and sometimes South Gosforth to Pelaw. Helps to reduce crowding, especially at Monument and Haymarket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wouldn't it be hard to put the RR out during service though? I assume it goes allot slower than the MetroCar and therefore couldn't run along the central belt. (if thats true) I can only see it being able to work Regent - Airport without delaying services, now if we still had Benton sidings it could probably still work up towards that way but otherwise wouldn't it cause delays?

Depends on what speed it was limited to - it could probably be put behind a service train off peak, which is what happens when the car for refurbishment is sent to Hylton Street. 12 minute gap in the frequency is more than enough.

 

[ModernRailways]

Wouldn't it be hard to put the RR out during service though? I assume it goes allot slower than the MetroCar and therefore couldn't run along the central belt. (if thats true) I can only see it being able to work Regent - Airport without delaying services, now if we still had Benton sidings it could probably still work up towards that way but otherwise wouldn't it cause delays?

Just been reading around, have Nexus dropped the idea to double Hebburn - Bede or is it something they are getting around to?

My point was that they should get rid of the RR and get a proper RHTT train. Hopefully, next year they will convert one of the unrefurbished units into one as LUL did with an A Stock.

It would be pretty impossible to double Hebburn to Bede without major works and it wouldn't be economical. Hebburn to Pelaw however, would be relatively straightforward, as would Jarrow to Bede (for the most part anyway)

Most of these are added to the timetable at short notice, which means they are not advertised. For Newcastle matches, there are often extra trains from St. James to Longbenton/Pelaw, trains from Pelaw to St. James and sometimes South Gosforth to Pelaw. Helps to reduce crowding, especially at Monument and Haymarket.

The last Newcastle match (about a week ago now), had 1 additional service. It was going to Pelaw, but the South Shields train was so rammed it changed to South Shields. It was 'Not In Service' till it reached Haymarket, where it then came into service as a Pelaw train.

From what I've heard they are only ran if there are trains / drivers spare and able to operate them which is why some match days you don't see any extras because either trains are in for maintenance or there aren't enough drivers on.



Small side note, 4009 has new announcements. It's the women (thank you! ), but she has been slightly altered and now no longer says all the extra guff for Monument, such as 'This station is for Newcastle City Centre'. 4009 was on a Pelaw to Monkseaton service.

 

[MetroCar4058]

Small side note, 4009 has new announcements. It's the women (thank you! ), but she has been slightly altered and now no longer says all the extra guff for Monument, such as 'This station is for Newcastle City Centre'. 4009 was on a Pelaw to Monkseaton service.

Why have they done that, bloody fools getting rid of the good information in my eyes, I thought it was due to fault but honestly information like that is crucial, as is:

'Change here for trains to the coast via Wallsend from Platform 3 and St James from Platform 4'

Also for South Gosforth:

'Change here for trains to St James via The Coast from Platform 2'

I don't understand Nexus if they are taking the important information away, they've wasted money on the bloke who gave more detail and now seem to be going to the baseline basics, poor management as ever hock:

 

[142094]

The last Newcastle match (about a week ago now), had 1 additional service. It was going to Pelaw, but the South Shields train was so rammed it changed to South Shields. It was 'Not In Service' till it reached Haymarket, where it then came into service as a Pelaw train.

There were at least 3 running, one empty from Gosforth to Haymarket as you say, another one empty from the depot to St James and in service from there, and also one empty to Pelaw and in service from Central Station north.

The one from St James around the Coast was definitely running as I was on it after the match.