Unavailability of toilets on TPE

[Moonshot]

I actually think it should be against the law to run a train service with no working toilets, for many reasons including the right for a passenger to travel in comfort. If a train isn't going to have toilets and its scheduled to run over a certain vast distance then it should be a legal requirement to have it cancelled.

So basically you think a train should be taken out of service the moment the situation arises of no working toilets?

 

[Welshman]

This thread is heading down the pan.

At least it disproves the allegation often made on here that TOCs run trains simply for their convenience.

 

[Moonshot]

At least it disproves the allegation often made on here that TOCs run trains simply for their own convenience.

yes indeed...its a bog standard comment

 

[Aldaniti]

So basically you think a train should be taken out of service the moment the situation arises of no working toilets?

God, you are tedious. I was going to make a contribution to this thread but after seeing your reaction to other posters, I'm not getting involved. In fact, every time I see the name Moonshot it reminds me why I spend less and less time on this forum.

 

[Moonshot]

God, you are tedious. I was going to make a contribution to this thread but after seeing your reaction to other posters, I'm not getting involved. In fact, every time I see the name Moonshot it reminds me why I spend less and less time on this forum.

Glad to hear it.....go and do something a bit more constructive with your time. I dont ask you to read my posts.

 

[Whistler40145]

This thread seems to be getting overheated between some members, really we need some calm or have the moderating team lock it.

 

[Moonshot]

This thread seems to be getting overheated between some members, really we need some calm or have the moderating team lock it.

Its a discussion forum Tim, things are bound to appear overheated when members feel passionately about something, and in my experience, railways seem to attract more than the average passionate debate. Not so sure I m passionate about train toilets, I wouldnt mind seeing some evidence of how passengers feel about this issue, but at the moment , there is nothing to go on.

 

[muz379]

I actually think it should be against the law to run a train service with no working toilets, for many reasons including the right for a passenger to travel in comfort. If a train isn't going to have toilets and its scheduled to run over a certain vast distance then it should be a legal requirement to have it cancelled.

I dont think the train should immediately be canceled the minute toilets are no longer working .

I do think there should be a requirement to stop for a toilet break if the journey is over a certain length .

Id rather the train run but with some delay owing to taking a toilet break . Rather then not run it at all .

 

[Whistler40145]

Very funny Moonshot, yes I agree it's a Forum for discussion, but are we flushed with success and keep going through the motions!

IMHO depending on distance, Traincrew should have the right to refuse working a train without functioning toilets. As a passenger, I would be pretty annoyed to find out on a long distance journey that the toilets didn't work, it's acceptable if the failure occurs at short notice, but if the stock has run overnight & is still defective the following day, a repair or fresh train should be a high priority.

Example if a FTPE 185 has arrived at Liverpool Lime Street late at night & TOC doesn't have onsite fitters, then an ECS move should be made available for the unit to visit the depot in Manchester for repairs or a unit swap.

 

[muz379]

Very funny Moonshot, yes I agree it's a Forum for discussion, but are we flushed with success and keep going through the motions!

IMHO depending on distance, Traincrew should have the right to refuse working a train without functioning toilets. As a passenger, I would be pretty annoyed to find out on a long distance journey that the toilets didn't work, it's acceptable if the failure occurs at short notice, but if the stock has run overnight & is still defective the following day, a repair or fresh train should be a high priority.

Example if a FTPE 185 has arrived at Liverpool Lime Street late at night & TOC doesn't have onsite fitters, then an ECS move should be made available for the unit to visit the depot in Manchester for repairs or a unit swap.

I think the toc's would aspire to do this as much as is possible .

But in the scenario you mentioned lime street is a pretty small depot for TPE so they might not have a driver who can run the unit up to Manchester and then bring another one back . There might not be a possible path either

 

[Moonshot]

Very funny Moonshot, yes I agree it's a Forum for discussion, but are we flushed with success and keep going through the motions!

IMHO depending on distance, Traincrew should have the right to refuse working a train without functioning toilets. As a passenger, I would be pretty annoyed to find out on a long distance journey that the toilets didn't work, it's acceptable if the failure occurs at short notice, but if the stock has run overnight & is still defective the following day, a repair or fresh train should be a high priority.

Example if a FTPE 185 has arrived at Liverpool Lime Street late at night & TOC doesn't have onsite fitters, then an ECS move should be made available for the unit to visit the depot in Manchester for repairs or a unit swap.

Thats my understanding of what happens anyway, and in fact with my own TOC, we pretty much find every toilet on a northern train is in a degraded state anyway late at night....and off to the depot it goes. I d be somewhat annoyed myself ( as a guard ) if my first working of the day was a service with less than 100 % operational features.

In fact i could extend that ( and this is far more annoying ) to the upholstery within the trains themsleves, I ve lost count the number of times I ve took a train out with ripped or missing seat covers and backs, its embarrassing. Its the first thing a passenger notices when the get on board, and it doesnt form a good impression at all.

 

[northwichcat]

I d be somewhat annoyed myself ( as a guard ) if my first working of the day was a service with less than 100 % operational features.

Given the number of Pacers with toilets that don't flush or toilet doors that don't lock properly I imagine a lot of Northern guards start the day with trains which don't have 100% operational toilets.

As TPE have some 6 car formations at peak time on North TPE then trying to ensure the units without working toilets were only in passenger operation attached to units with working toilets would be a start.

 

[GarethJohn]

This Toilet talk's gone too 7 pages now!!
Surely it's a matter of what the situation is on any given day.
People will tend too go before the travel,I make sure that if travelling with people who cannot wait long that they go before they leave the house or at the Station.
I expect most Train journeys of more than 1.5-2 hours will have more than one Toilet on-board,if not and you have a problem then I am sure most Conductors and Staff would be sympathetic in allowing you leave the Train and either catch a later service.If this is not possible then too allow you too use an intermediate Stations facilities-plenty of long distance Bus Journeys do this-it may cause a delay but what's the alternative,Bottle,vestibule or Cab or a combination of two?I mean if you've got a Train load of drunk's that have had to wait for a delayed Train on a Station with closed facilities wouldn't a stop to allow them to relieve themselves outside of the Train be the lesser of two evils?

 

[trainophile]

Given the number of Pacers with toilets that don't flush or toilet doors that don't lock properly I imagine a lot of Northern guards start the day with trains which don't have 100% operational toilets.

As TPE have some 6 car formations at peak time on North TPE then trying to ensure the units without working toilets were only in passenger operation attached to units with working toilets would be a start.

I'm on a Pacer now and the toilet door wouldn't lock! Luckily the flush works (but presumably the previous user didn't realise that - but that's another day's thread ), there was water coming from the tap even if some of it was leaking out of the tap base, plentiful paper towels (which I prefer to useless warm air dryers), so an 8/10 experience!

 

[Moonshot]

I'm on a Pacer now and the toilet door wouldn't lock! Luckily the flush works (but presumably the previous user didn't realise that - but that's another day's thread ), there was water coming from the tap even if some of it was leaking out of the tap base, plentiful paper towels (which I prefer to useless warm air dryers), so an 8/10 experience!

Whats really needed is a complete gutting of the Pacer interiors. Especially seating........put some carpets in and hey presto, something a bit better than today.

 

[trainophile]

Whats really needed is a complete gutting of the Pacer interiors. Especially seating........put some carpets in and hey presto, something a bit better than today.

Funny you should mention that - there was a pair of seats completely missing in my coach, you could see where they had been from the marks on the floor but just a big space, which was handy for extra leg and luggage room!

I thought at first it was for a wheelchair, but you couldn't have fitted one through the passageway to access it. Perhaps they are going to put an extra luggage rack in, or more likely it's just an example of extreme vandalism!

 

[Emyr]

more likely it's just an example of extreme vandalism!

It's hard to get spare seats, the buses have all been scrapped.

 

[Moonshot]

Funny you should mention that - there was a pair of seats completely missing in my coach, you could see where they had been from the marks on the floor but just a big space, which was handy for extra leg and luggage room!

I thought at first it was for a wheelchair, but you couldn't have fitted one through the passageway to access it. Perhaps they are going to put an extra luggage rack in, or more likely it's just an example of extreme vandalism!

I did hear an idea from another colleague a few weeks ago that there was a potential plan to couple up pacers into permanent 4 car sets, and convert the non driving cabs into loos which meet the DDA requirements. How likely that is I have no idea, but its an unusual idea to say the least.

 

[Emyr]

Sounds like a Porterbrook plan, Angel own Northern's Pacers and haven't said much about wanting to extend their life any further.

 

[dannypye9999]

I dont think the train should immediately be canceled the minute toilets are no longer working .

I do think there should be a requirement to stop for a toilet break if the journey is over a certain length .

Id rather the train run but with some delay owing to taking a toilet break . Rather then not run it at all .

What if this train runs into a mass three hour delay? Wouldn't be very nice if you develop a tummy bug & severe diaoreah or you already have it - where else are you meant to throw up when there are no toilets? Maybe throw up all over the other passengers and then spread a bacteria onto babies and small children if the train is packed? There are other things too, perhaps a female passenger needs a toilet emergency due to a pregnancy.

I cannot really see passengers moaning over a cancelled train due to no toilets, there will be plenty to moan about when they suddenly need to go when the trains sat waiting outside a station due to a points failure.

 

[bb21]

I cannot really see passengers moaning over a cancelled train due to no toilets,

I seriously doubt it.

 

[Moonshot]

What if this train runs into a mass three hour delay? Wouldn't be very nice if you develop a tummy bug & severe diaoreah or you already have it - where else are you meant to throw up when there are no toilets? Maybe throw up all over the other passengers and then spread a bacteria onto babies and small children if the train is packed? There are other things too, perhaps a female passenger needs a toilet emergency due to a pregnancy.

I cannot really see passengers moaning over a cancelled train due to no toilets, there will be plenty to moan about when they suddenly need to go when the trains sat waiting outside a station due to a points failure.

What if that train was one which didnt have toilets in the first place? of which there are some numbers knocking about on the UK network

 

[dannypye9999]

So basically you think a train should be taken out of service the moment the situation arises of no working toilets?

You'll be wishing it had when theres suddenly a four hour delay - unless your on a HST where there are slide down windows lol

 

[trainophile]

Surely they'd have to cut down on services if they halve the number of trains?

 

[bb21]

I'm not sure there is anything else to be discussed. We are starting getting into the realms of extreme cases in order to support views at both sides of the spectrum.

Whilst in reality, as many have testified, staff will try and incorporate toilet breaks where possible in these situations. If they can't, I am sure there would be other solutions. With a chronic shortage of rolling stock, there is not much that can be done sometimes when toilets fail.