Unavailability of toilets on TPE

[Moonshot]

London Midland have done so in the past when both of their train toilets have gone U/S. They stop for about 5 minutes extra at somewhere like Stafford or Northampton

Which I assume then was at the discretion of a guard/driver/control.

 

[bb21]

I see. Still chances of that happening at Leeds given all the constraints and the potential knock-on effects would be quite low I guess.

More likely at another less busy station, or one with spare platform capacity, en route.

 

[Tetchytyke]

There are toilets on platform 15 at Leeds. TPE heading northbound use platform 15. It's not going to take more than ten minutes to allow a toilet break, given that only a few people will need it. Or you could have a toilet stop at Huddersfield or York.

It's better than cancelling a service, but are TPE really that short of stock that they can't set-swap this unit out of service at some point during the day?

 

[DarloRich]

Which I assume then was at the discretion of a guard/driver/control.

I assume so - it happens fairly often!

I see. Still chances of that happening at Leeds given all the constraints and the potential knock-on effects would be quite low I guess.

More likely at another less busy station, or one with spare platform capacity, en route.

If it happens it wont be at Leeds! On a practical level the toilets are miles from where the TPE's come in!

 

[Moonshot]

I assume so - it happens fairly often!



If it happens it wont be at Leeds! On a practical level the toilets are miles from where the TPE's come in!

if practical , an alternative solution would be to take the train out of servcie altogether and simply swap the unit, but thats no way easy anyway on an operational railway.

 

[bb21]

There are toilets on platform 15 at Leeds. TPE heading northbound use platform 15. It's not going to take more than ten minutes to allow a toilet break, given that only a few people will need it. Or you could have a toilet stop at Huddersfield or York.

It's better than cancelling a service, but are TPE really that short of stock that they can't set-swap this unit out of service at some point during the day?

Much could depend on circumstances.

For example, if the guard checks with passengers and found out that people only need to do small ones , and the train calls at Pfm 15, at a relatively quiet time, and is scheduled to be there for a few minutes anyway (as some services do), then chances are that permission may well be granted, but speaking generally, I doubt it.

Most Newcastle TPE services also until quite recently had a good few minutes to wait at York, so that would have been an easier place to arrange for a possibe toilet stop if needed, but I note that the wait is no longer there.

 

[Iskra]

Are you saying that there is rolling stock in the UK ( or indeed the world ) which has 100% availabilty of toilet facilties ? ?

:roll:

No, or I would have just said that, wouldn't I?

Clearly, this isn't a one off.

Do you think a 3-car 185 with 2 toilets (that seem to fill-up quick), limited catering and disproportionate first class provision are an adequate solution for 'Express' Manchester-Scotland or Liverpool-Newcastle services?

 

[Moonshot]

Maybe the alternative would be to run mobile cesspits as part of a trains formation.........Northern actually do this now....they call them Pacers!!
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:roll:

No, or I would have just said that, wouldn't I?

Do you think a 3-car 185 with 2 toilets (that seem to fill-up quick), limited catering and disproportionate first class provision are an adequate solution for 'Express' Manchester-Scotland or Liverpool-Newcastle services?

I dont know , but they do the trick just fine for me when I travel with them as a passenger, they do seem to climb gradiients very well by the looks of it.

Of course putting 2 sets of 385s together immediately gives a 6 car train with 4 toilets, 3 sets together would be 9 cars with 6 toilets.

How does that compare with a Pendolino?

 

[Emyr]

Expensively.

 

[fowler9]

Maybe the alternative would be to run mobile cesspits as part of a trains formation.........Northern actually do this now....they call them Pacers!!
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I dont know , but they do the trick just fine for me when I travel with them as a passenger, they do seem to climb gradiients very well by the looks of it.

Of course putting 2 sets of 385s together immediately gives a 6 car train with 4 toilets, 3 sets together would be 9 cars with 6 toilets.

How does that compare with a Pendolino?

Ha ha. This is true. Don't say it too loud or FTPE may consider doing it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe the alternative would be to run mobile cesspits as part of a trains formation.........Northern actually do this now....they call them Pacers!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I dont know , but they do the trick just fine for me when I travel with them as a passenger, they do seem to climb gradiients very well by the looks of it.

Of course putting 2 sets of 385s together immediately gives a 6 car train with 4 toilets, 3 sets together would be 9 cars with 6 toilets.

How does that compare with a Pendolino?

Pendolinos smelling like open sewers and having poor toilet facilities for the number of passengers does not make 185's good. And how many passengers really care about hill climbing capabilities. They will be more peed off by the crawl in to Leeds, Manchester or Liverpool.

 

[DarloRich]

if practical , an alternative solution would be to take the train out of servcie altogether and simply swap the unit, but thats no way easy anyway on an operational railway.

Agreed - I doubt they can replace a failed unit with a fresh unit at present anyway

 

[Moonshot]

Ha ha. This is true. Don't say it too loud or FTPE may consider doing it.
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Pendolinos smelling like open sewers and having poor toilet facilities for the number of passengers does not make 185's good. And how many passengers really care about hill climbing capabilities. They will be more peed off by the crawl in to Leeds, Manchester or Liverpool.

Which if there is congestion around those areas ( which there often is ) I fail to see what difference the rolling stock you are travelling in actually makes?

These class 185s do exactly what the public want them to do ....get them from A to B......and in fact they have been so successful in this, they have recently taken on some more units in the form of whatever they are called to help relieve overcrowding.

 

[oldman]

Is there a financial penalty for the TOC if there is no functioning toilet on a long-distance service? It might concentrate their minds a wee bit.

 

[noddingdonkey]

You dont come up with a proposal to for a new idea, but maybe I can because I can think outside the box a bit better than most......maybe TPE should highlight this issue on departure information systems at the station ? In much the same way as they state trains are running late etc? Or telling customers that their train is the front 3 coaches on any particular platform ?

You might be able to think outside the box better than others, but perhaps you missed this key part of the OP

The advice given is "Passengers are advised to use facilities at the station before boarding this this service." That's all very well but at some stations they call at they have no toilet facilities.

 

[Parallel]

Everytime I think of Transpennine Express and toilets, I think of this.

 

[Dunc108]

Everytime I think of Transpennine Express and toilets, I think of this.

Alot of branch line station toilets were closed under BR cutbacks and rationalisations - I'l use the Windermere Branch as a classic example. A station as integral to a town centre like Kendal should have customer toilets. It's a very busy calling point on a major tourist railway. Its like we still live in the dark ages in some places..

 

[David Barrett]

Alot of branch line station toilets were closed under BR cutbacks and rationalisations.

However many of these stations began to smell like toilets for some reason!

 

[leedslad82]

I've been on tpexpress services between leeds and Manchester with no working toilets . Most times they have had a toilet stop at Huddersfield

 

[fowler9]

Which if there is congestion around those areas ( which there often is ) I fail to see what difference the rolling stock you are travelling in actually makes?

These class 185s do exactly what the public want them to do ....get them from A to B......and in fact they have been so successful in this, they have recently taken on some more units in the form of whatever they are called to help relieve overcrowding.

Wow, do they really do exactly what the public want them to do? Last time I checked they were the only none ridiculous way to get from Liverpool to Leeds (I'll use an example I am used to).

Do the public have to start walking instead before you would consider every journey on FTPE not being a ringing endorsement of their rolling stock?

 

[yorksrob]

If it happens it wont be at Leeds! On a practical level the toilets are miles from where the TPE's come in!

Actually, there are toilets on platforms 12/15, so quite handy for East bound trains.

 

[muz379]

Been on a Man Airport to Edinburgh tpe service before with no working toilets . Stopped for a toilet rest stop at Preston


the train was pretty full , the guard came through before Preston asking who needed the toilet and about 10 people in the coach I was in that had got on at the airport and Piccadilly wanted to go . It was clearly explained to them that they would have 10 minutes to use the toilet and be back or the train would go without them .

Don't see why not If it can be done causing as little knock on delay as possible , It certainly might be necessary on a long intercity journey just as good customer service .

Sure you can break your journey but what about the elderly or people traveling with kids . Do they really want to detrain with their luggage and all that just so they can use the loo .
I wonder if having to detrain and wait an hour for the next service would earn you some sort of refund ? , same as if you refused to travel because of the lack of toilet ?

 

[fowler9]

I can't believe in this day and age we are talking about getting off the train to have a number 2 because the toilets on our all singing all dancing trains just don't work. But the trains were so much more dirty in BR days.

 

[185143]

While others make sensible suggestions about breaking journeys, asking for tickets to be endorsed etc, I'm very much afraid to say my puerile brain instantly went into possible abbreviations mode:

Toilet Perusal Embargo
Trousers/Pants Emergency
and so on (the others were worse).

On that subject, today's Weegie word = tollie.

(Sorry)

Try Peeing Elsewhere sprung to my mind !!
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Wouldn't it be a good idea if the toilets on the trains were, as part of the franchise entanglement, to be presented in a serviceable condition anyway?
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I'm certian that the female guards might not see this point too well.

At this point I d love to recite a story about that , but I fear it may break forum rules

By PM maybe??

 

[185]

I will now talk dirty.

Most of the faults on 185 loos are clearable. The company took the (stupid) decision to restrict staff interfering with the manual clear buttons located in the service panel. Reverse flush (up) (shut the lid first ...and stand on it!) then service flush (down) normally clears the pan.

If the tank is full, that is a definite sign that either depot staff overnight are not dropping the CET tank, or the unit man in control has diagrammed 3-day duties for sets, which should not happen - far too long for a full depot visit.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Once did Waverley>Manchester on what was the 07:42 on a set which had come off the depot. One toilet worked until Lockerbie and the other never worked at all. Since then Iv gone with Virgin and Northern changing PRE
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Other memorable one of note was about 12 years ago on what was the 15:48 Glasgow Central>Newcastle Via the GSW. The 156s solitary bog was locked out but not signed, the guard didnt even know and first anyone did was at Kilmarnock where the driver nipped along for a quick slash. He had no time to get off and no station facilitties from there to Dumfries. By around 17:00, 30 mins before Dumfries a number of pax were getting desperate,, but none more so than the driver who thrashed that 156 like iv never witnessed since, arriving 7 early.

Meanwhile my Dad who was wating for me on the platform got the fright of his life at round 17:20 as a member of station staff came charging over the footbridge to unlock the loos having been contacted by the guard, driver, signaler and controll. He andEveryone wating thought something bad had gone wrong and were mighty glad to hear that it was just a 156 with no bog arriving ahead of shedule!↲

 

[northwichcat]

(shut the lid first ...and stand on it!) then service flush (down) normally clears the pan.

I wouldn't think the unions would be happy with that, especially not on the move given how much the 185s can jerk about.

 

[Albatross]

I did state in my post ( in case you havent read , or more likely understood it ) that i was using railway terminology. A PNB is what we call a Personal Needs Break. My aunty once took 22 minutes to use the toilet 8 years ago in Leeds railway station.

So if passengers arent aware of toliet faults because of the fact they havent accessed the journey check site , do you think that they should phone every passenger prior to boarding and tell them there is a toliet fault? You dont come up with a proposal to for a new idea, but maybe I can because I can think outside the box a bit better than most......maybe TPE should highlight this issue on departure information systems at the station ? In much the same way as they state trains are running late etc? Or telling customers that their train is the front 3 coaches on any particular platform ?

Seems like a fair idea to me if its not already actioned.

What a ridiculous post. It would be quite simple wouldn't it "we're now having a 5 minute stop to allow people to use the toilet facilities at this station"

And that's it, you go on 5 minutes.

I don't care whether they do or they don't by the way but your whole post was just ridiculous, talking about personal needs breaks and walking time.

Who on earth checks whether their train has functioning toilets before making a journey? And yet you say it as though they're somehow at fault for not bothering. How about a party of 25 men on the real ale trail?

You think they're going to stop mid session and say "hang on lads I'm just going to check if the next train has a working toilet"

No of course they're not and they're also not going to take kindly to being told there's no provision for them to have a wee.

Customers deserve a level of service, I know from your posts on here that you're in love with shareholders and think everybody whether staff or customer should take whatever they're given and thank the almighty shareholder but it's a basic human requirement and the bare minimum a customer should be provided with.

If they can't provide it on board then they should provide it elsewhere and if that costs them delays then tough

 

[Howardh]

I've been on trains in Belgium where at the bottom of the pan is an open hole, where everything gets deposited on the track. Not much chance of that breaking down!

But for toilet emergencies maybe the guard should hand out empty bottles of oasis and tell everyone to turn away

 

[hassaanhc]

I've been on trains in Belgium where at the bottom of the pan is an open hole, where everything gets deposited on the track. Not much chance of that breaking down!

That still is the case with most Mark 3 coaches etc

 

[Wolfie]

I can't believe in this day and age we are talking about getting off the train to have a number 2 because the toilets on our all singing all dancing trains just don't work. But the trains were so much more dirty in BR days.

In BR days the number 2 (or indeed number 1) were just dumped on the tracks; funny old thing but line-side maintenance workesr have a (justified!) issue with that. Modern rolling stock has retention tanks - if they are full the toliet goes out of service. Trains don't always get back to a depot for tank emptying before that happens......