Where should XC serve?

[194022]

I'm wondering where XC should serve? Should it extend its existing routes, call at more or less stations, travel across new routes, be more frequent or less frequent on some routes. Are there any current routes which should be brought within XC's control or are there any routes that should be taken off XC and given to another TOC?

 

[samogers]

Maybe being a bit biased as I live in the southeast but it would be nice to see XC back at Brighton doing Brighton to Manchester Piccadilly via Birmingham New Street services again

 

[s'land]

I'd like to see some xc calling at Sunderland, either by extending some Newcastle terminaters or the odd service going up the Durham Coast. Although I do acknowledge its unlikely ever to happen unless the line speed on the Durham Coast line is increased.

 

[Class 170101]

Well two obvious ones I can think of.

The West Coast Mainline between Birmingham and Scotland
Norwich to Liverpool should also be on XC and not EMT.

 

[ash39]

Dover-Fort William

 

[Tomnick]

Norwich to Liverpool should also be on XC and not EMT.

I can't imagine that working in practice. Where would the traincrew come from, for starters? EMT seem ideally placed to operate it, with Nottingham being around the midpoint of the route.

 

[Class 170101]

I can't imagine that working in practice. Where would the traincrew come from, for starters? EMT seem ideally placed to operate it, with Nottingham being around the midpoint of the route.

How about Norwich and Manchester?

XC also have a depot at Derby

I disagree with the comment about Nottingham in the sense that yes it is the mid-point of the route BUT it leaves the west end of the route difficult to cover. There are earlier trains from Norwich and Nottingham than there are from Liverpool on the EMT network.

 

[ushawk]

The South and East could do with being connected to the XC network, but connections via London probably put pay to that.

Liverpool wouldnt be a bad call either.

 

[Anvil1984]

I'd like to see some xc calling at Sunderland, either by extending some Newcastle terminaters or the odd service going up the Durham Coast. Although I do acknowledge its unlikely ever to happen unless the line speed on the Durham Coast line is increased.

I'd say unlikely to happen full stop.

Newcastle terminators have 47 minutes turnaround at Newcastle. You'll be looking at a return journey time (on a clear run) for 36 mins Newcastle to Sunderland then you have to account for patching between Metros in both directions , time taken to change ends at Sunderland.

As for diverting via Durham Coast I don't honestly think it's worth it unless you somehow increase linespeed to 100mph and get rid of most of the freight and then there's the Metros again

 

[The Planner]

Wherever the DfT specify....

 

[34D]

Extend the Cardiff-Nottingham trains to Newark Castle and Lincoln?

XC to take over the whole of First TPE and the longer distance fast First Scotrail trains?

The issue with the Norwich-Liverpool services is that they're so slow, so not really 'express' per se. Plus I don't think anyone would like XC to get class 158's again....

 

[Masbroughlad]

Back to mid 90s routes but with better frequencies

 

[455driver]

Back to mid 90s routes but with better frequencies

And the same train lengths!

 

[Tomnick]

How about Norwich and Manchester?

XC also have a depot at Derby

I disagree with the comment about Nottingham in the sense that yes it is the mid-point of the route BUT it leaves the west end of the route difficult to cover. There are earlier trains from Norwich and Nottingham than there are from Liverpool on the EMT network.

I take the point about the west end of the route, and transferring the Norwich depot to XC is a possibility, I'm sure. Would the cost of all the route and traction training that'd be necessary at both Derby and Manchester, the reduced productivity from having to pass drivers over to Nottingham on every turn and the need to deal with the change in the overall workload at each depot outweigh the limited benefits though? If they did, wouldn't it just be cheaper for EMT to establish a small depot in the north-west, similar to Norwich?!

 

[Class172]

I still do think that every two hours, one of the Cardiff-Nottingham services ought to be diverted to go via Worcester.

*goes off and hides*

 

[43074]

I take the point about the west end of the route, and transferring the Norwich depot to XC is a possibility, I'm sure. Would the cost of all the route and traction training that'd be necessary at both Derby and Manchester, the reduced productivity from having to pass drivers over to Nottingham on every turn and the need to deal with the change in the overall workload at each depot outweigh the limited benefits though? If they did, wouldn't it just be cheaper for EMT to establish a small depot in the north-west, similar to Norwich?!

There are certain Nottingham to Cardiff services that start in Nottingham, and the stock & crew come from the XC depot in Leicester so there's no reason why it could be the case with any Lime Street - Norwich services. EMT are arguably equally unproductive though: there is a lengthy Nottingham to Liverpool ECS move for the first trains of the day from there.

 

[BantamMenace]

All trains should go via Leeds and none go fast from Doncaster to York although i understand this is due to pathing issues.

I'd also like to see the Newcastle to Reading services possibly start from Edinburgh and the infrastructure construction needed to make them electric services accelerated so by not much after 2020 new stock can be brought online to operate them.

 

[Tomnick]

There are certain Nottingham to Cardiff services that start in Nottingham, and the stock & crew come from the XC depot in Leicester so there's no reason why it could be the case with any Lime Street - Norwich services. EMT are arguably equally unproductive though: there is a lengthy Nottingham to Liverpool ECS move for the first trains of the day from there.

During the day, though, presumably the majority of trains are worked out and back by Birmingham crews - whereas virtually any diagram working over this route would include an hour or more on the cushions from Derby or Leicester and back. I'm still not sure that anyone would benefit, apart from possibly those who might get earlier services from the NW, from transferring the route, with presumably the same trains (another issue there - who maintains them?), to another TOC.

 

[TSR :D]

I think XC should serve Heathrow Airport even if it involves doubling back at somewhere near London because most people travelling to and away from the airport don't like to having to change at London

 

[RichmondCommu]

How about Norwich and Manchester?

XC also have a depot at Derby

No they don't! The depot is between Burton and Tamworth! The only TOC who uses Etches Park is EMT.

 

[Qwerty133]

I think XC should serve Heathrow Airport even if it involves doubling back at somewhere near London because most people travelling to and away from the airport don't like to having to change at London

You could use that argument for any 2 stations in the country, so no they shouldn't.

 

[TSR :D]

You could use that argument for any 2 stations in the country, so no they shouldn't.

Think of the type of passengers who's going to use Heathrow airport. They will be carrying heavy luggages, and they will not mind taking a direct service into Heathrow even if it takes longer than changing at London.

This is the reason why coach services into airport is very popular.

 

[Class 170101]

I take the point about the west end of the route, and transferring the Norwich depot to XC is a possibility, I'm sure. Would the cost of all the route and traction training that'd be necessary at both Derby and Manchester, the reduced productivity from having to pass drivers over to Nottingham on every turn and the need to deal with the change in the overall workload at each depot outweigh the limited benefits though? If they did, wouldn't it just be cheaper for EMT to establish a small depot in the north-west, similar to Norwich?!

Not sure I would pass drivers to Notts all that often. I would probably extend Norwich to sign to Sheffield (remember they would lose EMT route work to Worksop - if they still go there) and use Manchester depot between Sheffield and Liverpool. The few Derby turns would be starters and finishers. Otherwise keep a small link at Nottingham (remembering it would have to be split from EMT) but use Manchester for early and late trains at Liverpool vice Nottingham as now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No they don't! The depot is between Burton and Tamworth! The only TOC who uses Etches Park is EMT.

Train crew depot not train maintenance depot.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I still do think that every two hours, one of the Cardiff-Nottingham services ought to be diverted to go via Worcester.

*goes off and hides*

Why not extend the Nottingham to Brimingham service instead - can then be hourly. But probably have to go to Shrub Hill rather than Foregate Street unless a path could be found towards Hereford to hide trains between trips. Perhaps takeover the LM service between New Street and Hereford?

 

[fowler9]

A cross country service to Liverpool would be nice. There are far smaller cities and towns in the country that they serve.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Extended from Bournemouth to Poole in the Winter and from Bournemouth to Weymouth in the Summer.

 

[transmanche]

A cross country service to Liverpool would be nice. There are far smaller cities and towns in the country that they serve.

Of course Liverpool does get some cross-country services (operated by TPE and EMT) just none operated by XC.

Is it likely that Liverpool might get a service to Scotland at some point; e.g. portion working with the TPE service from Manchester Airport. But what XC service do you think is required?

 

[gerryuk]

London St Pancras – Leicester – Nottingham – Sheffield – Huddersfield – Leeds – Bradford – Carlisle – Glasgow
Leicester and Nottingham would benefit with direct trains to Huddersfield, Bradford, Carlisle and Glasgow.
Sheffield and Leeds would benefit with a more direct route to Glasgow. Sheffield would also benefit with direct trains to Bradford and Carlisle.
Huddersfield and Bradford would benefit with hourly trains to London and Glasgow.
The country would benefit as it would link up most of the country’s major conurbations.
A win, win situation for everybody.:grin:

 

[anthony263]

Extended from Bournemouth to Poole in the Winter and from Bournemouth to Weymouth in the Summer.

If there are paths available then summer saturday extensions to Weymouth I think would be a good idea.

A few services per day running to/from Poole is something I do think should happen.

I would not mind seing crosscountry services west of Cardiff again

 

[Masbroughlad]

When business units were formed, Midland Mainline and XC were together. That made sense.

As to new stations now - Bradford, Scarborough, Liverpool.

Would also be good to see overnight holidaymaker trains to the SW etc.

Would there be demand for Scotland-SW/SE sleepers again?

 

[TheWalrus]

In regards to the OP, I would think Poole, Bradford, Hull, Lincoln, Swansea, Sunderland, possibly Middlesbrough, Inverness and North Wales. Personally I would like to see them serve London Paddington again!