Where should XC serve?

[Parallel]

FGW already run 2 a day, 18:59 and 16:59 off Brighton os I am guessing it doesn't have many people on it?

These Brighton trains always seem very busy whenever I see them operating, the Great Malvern - Brighton is usually very full after Bristol Temple Meads. I'd like to see another few a day extended to Brighton.

Where does the morning Brighton - Great Malvern come from?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Where does the morning Brighton - Great Malvern come from?

0701 ex-Portsmouth Harbour

 

[GatwickDepress]

It's also advertised as having a trolley service. That combined with toilets means it beats out 313s for the regular commuters!

 

[387star]

I do think that XC should extend their Guildford service to Portsmouth Harbour. It would be very easy to do as the Voyager runs ECS to Eastleigh via Havant after working the afternoon service and vice versa in the mornings. It could call at Haslemere, Petersfield, Havant, Fratton, Portsmouth & Southsea and Portsmouth Harbour, before returning to Eastleigh from there.

Adam

Never knew that so that's how they maintain route knowledge

What time does it go ECS from Guildford ?
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It's also advertised as having a trolley service. That combined with toilets means it beats out 313s for the regular commuters!

No trolley service

Trolley joins at Salisbury from Brighton

 

[GatwickDepress]

Never knew that so that's how they maintain route knowledge

What time does it go ECS from Guildford ?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No trolley service

Trolley joins at Salisbury from Brighton

Ah, the PIS announcements at Brighton say "trolley service of drinks and light refreshments" but with no further information.I have seen a trolley get loaded up at Brighton before though. Perhaps Rail Gourmet were attempting a hostile takeover.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Never knew that so that's how they maintain route knowledge

What time does it go ECS from Guildford ?

0501 Eastleigh-Guildford 0556 (dep 0602)
(arr 1859) 1913 Guildford-Eastleigh 2037

 

[387star]

Ah, the PIS announcements at Brighton say "trolley service of drinks and light refreshments" but with no further information.I have seen a trolley get loaded up at Brighton before though. Perhaps Rail Gourmet were attempting a hostile takeover.

1659 has a trolley but 0859 (from portsmouth) has nothing till Salisbury despite announcements to the contrary
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0501 Eastleigh-Guildford 0556 (dep 0602)
(arr 1859) 1913 Guildford-Eastleigh 2037

Thanks any vids of these movements passing Havant, hazlemere etc

 

[dannypye9999]

Weymouth should be put back on to the XC map after they all ceased to operate in the early 2000's after Virgins HF "princess" timetable. Weymouth, just like Newquay is a busy and popular holiday destination it should be served with something from the North.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Weymouth should be put back on to the XC map after they all ceased to operate in the early 2000's after Virgins HF "princess" timetable. Weymouth, just like Newquay is a busy and popular holiday destination it should be served with something from the North.

They should at least in the summer extend all the Bournemouth/Southampton to Weymouth, with some extended in the Winter to tie in with the channel islands ferry (allowing enough time to get from the station to the ferry terminal)

 

[Martin_1981]

They should at least in the summer extend all the Bournemouth/Southampton to Weymouth, with some extended in the Winter to tie in with the channel islands ferry (allowing enough time to get from the station to the ferry terminal)

Or if they cannot extend all such services to Weymouth, on summer Saturdays maybe have one service to and from Manchester and another to and from Newcastle, using either double Voyagers (hired from Virgin maybe?) or hire in HST's from East Coast and/or East Mid Trains like XC did a few years ago on the Paignton and Newquay 'Holidaymakers'.

 

[Whistler40145]

If you want to extend services to Weymouth, does it have to be extending Southampton/Bournemouth services or could XC extend several Bristol terminating services via Bath Spa & Westbury to Salisbury or via Yeovil Pen Mill?

 

[dannypye9999]

If you want to extend services to Weymouth, does it have to be extending Southampton/Bournemouth services or could XC extend several Bristol terminating services via Bath Spa & Westbury to Salisbury or via Yeovil Pen Mill?

The current XC Manchester to Cardiff could run via Salisbury to Weymouth instead of Cardiff. There is already an hourly service between Manc and Cardiff that's called ATW.

 

[Anvil1984]

The current XC Manchester to Cardiff could run via Salisbury to Weymouth instead of Cardiff. There is already an hourly service between Manc and Cardiff that's called ATW.

There's only 1 train a day and I don't think there's much point in running a Weymouth service that'll arrive about 2230

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Do sufficient paths exist for all Bournemouth and Southampton XC services to be extended to Weymouth?

 

[DarloRich]

I love this thread - it is comedy gold! Perhaps we could devleop some kind of random service generator game! Kepe them coming as they cheer me up no end!

Pick two random stations and suggest XC serve them via a thrid randomly suggetsed station! Hours of fun for no one!

 

[SpacePhoenix]

It's a shame that paths and stock don't exist (afaik) for a Penzance-Dover train (going via as many possible of) Exeter, Torquay, Paignton, Poole, Weymouth, Dawlish, Southampton, Brighton, Portsmouth, Eastbourne, and any other seaside town our tourist town as possible east of Brighton. AFAIK the National Express coach that does the Helston-Eastbourne route is well used so there probably would be the demand

 

[telstarbox]

@DarloRich: Agreed!

@SpacePhoenix: There's a big difference between running a 50-seater coach which NX can withdraw at any time and a whole train which takes up paths which could be used for other services. Are you suggesting that every seaside town has large untapped demand for visiting other seaside towns?

 

[PHILIPE]

It's a shame that paths and stock don't exist (afaik) for a Penzance-Dover train (going via as many possible of) Exeter, Torquay, Paignton, Poole, Weymouth, Dawlish, Southampton, Brighton, Portsmouth, Eastbourne, and any other seaside town our tourist town as possible east of Brighton. AFAIK the National Express coach that does the Helston-Eastbourne route is well used so there probably would be the demand

I shouldn't think there would be any demand so if it went via all these places deviating from any route and probably taking all day. People seem to be forgetting that everything Cross Country goes via Birmingham which was the original intention.

 

[nw1]

I shouldn't think there would be any demand so if it went via all these places deviating from any route and probably taking all day. People seem to be forgetting that everything Cross Country goes via Birmingham which was the original intention.

I can imagine that there might be demand for (say) one or two Brighton to Plymouth per day via Salisbury and Exeter but avoiding Portsmouth and Paignton, to avoid backtracking - as currently there is no direct link from the central south coast to the southwest. I think such services did run in the 80s IIRC. To avoid single-line congestion issues it would probably have to go via Westbury rather than Yeovil.

Wondering whether new "triangular junction" links at Dorchester and at Yeovil to improve connections between Bournemouth and the southwest would be worthdoing? That way you could have a true "south coast express" and more significantly, make it easier to travel from Bournemouth/Poole to Devon and Cornwall.
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These Brighton trains always seem very busy whenever I see them operating, the Great Malvern - Brighton is usually very full after Bristol Temple Meads. I'd like to see another few a day extended to Brighton.

Where does the morning Brighton - Great Malvern come from?

One issue is that these are quite slow - they seem to be operated more as Brighton extensions of Westbury to Great Malvern stoppers, would maybe a Brighton to Cardiff with the same calling points as the Portsmouth to Cardiff regular trains be a good idea?
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On the subject of Kensington Olympia, are the Southampton/Bournemouth services diverted this way from Reading when the line is closed between Reading and Basingstoke?

In peace

Adam

Never known them go this way but in the late 90s, with engineering work near Oxford (I think just into the days of Virgin XC) a Reading - GW main line - link to WCML - up the WCML to Rugby diversion did happen at least once.
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Liverpool could be served today between Bournemouth and Manchester by extending them via Warrington Central to Lime Street using voyagers. Changes would be needed to the times of the current service along the route in order to make paths.

Mind you would people want to go all that way round when there are two direct Birmingham to Liverpool trains an hour? I guess you might have a few who don't want to change trains but I'd guess the longer time would put many off. That said, I do think that it would make sense to add Liverpool to the XC network - but routed via the direct Runcorn and Crewe route.

 

[dannypye9999]

Mind you would people want to go all that way round when there are two direct Birmingham to Liverpool trains an hour? I guess you might have a few who don't want to change trains but I'd guess the longer time would put many off. That said, I do think that it would make sense to add Liverpool to the XC network - but routed via the direct Runcorn and Crewe route.

I don't see no real major problem running trains the "long way round" on this route, virgin xc did it for years on Scotland to South England by running several services a day via Bolton and Manchester and adding 1 hour extra to journeys. And currently Virgin are doing the "long way round" honours on some of their Scotland to Euston services which now run via Wolverhampton.

 

[adrock1976]

Reading an earlier post on nodal points and East - West rail, I have an idea in my head.

The XC network could simply run from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, and York in the north via Birmingham to Cardiff, Bristol, and Reading in the South. This would form the "core" of the XC services.

The Liverpool and Manchester departures could run every 30 minutes by running along the Liverpool & Manchester Railway to Earlestown and then the Grand Junction to Warrington Bank Quay. The services could couple/detach at WBQ (4 Platforms, so out of the way of ICWC services) and proceed via Birmingham to Reading. Obviously, Stockport would no longer directly be served, but there are services to Crewe where passengers can connect into.

One train could start from each of York and Leeds, with the York service calling at Doncaster and the Leeds service calling at Wakefield (either Westgate or Kirkgate - if Kirkgate, then maybe also Barnsley), where both the services would couple up or detach at Sheffield. This would require planning at SHF so as not to get in the way of the Lincolnshire/Hull Paragon/St Pancras services that use the through platforms. The services could detach/couple up at Bristol Parkway, but again, would get in the way of the ICGW services to/from Paddington, and would involve coupling up/detaching twice during the same journey. However, it would give a frequency of every 30 minutes between Sheffield and Bristol Parkway via Birmingham.

Alternatively, the Leeds service could run to Cardiff Central via Bristol Parkway, with the York service running to Bristol Temple Meads, with both running as double formation which would be a lot easier. Again, it would provide a frequency of every 30 minutes between Sheffield and Bristol Parkway. Obviously, this would reduce Bristol Temple Meads from every 30 minutes to every 60 minutes, hence the Cardiff service being routed via Parkway to provide connections.

What about the section between Bristol and Devon/Cornwall, and Reading and Bournemouth? The paths vacated could be used for the East - West Rail scheme, with an hourly Plymouth via Bristol, Swindon, Oxford, Bedford Midland, stations via Sheffield to Doncaster, then calling at York, Newcastle Central, and Edinburgh Waverley.

The Bournemouth to Reading section could continue as above via the East - West Rail to Edinburgh Waverley, giving a frequency of every 30 minutes between Edinburgh and Oxford.

I know this seems somewhat controversial, as there would no longer be any direct services between Birmingham and Devon/Cornwall, but my idea was by reducing the distance of the present XC intercity services that run through Birmingham i.e making it into a medium - distance regional service, the services from points further south could then be a true Intercity type service with proper coaching stock, by running over the E-W Rail link, with the medium distance regional services via Birmingham running in 2 units coupled up for the majority of its distance.

What do people think - a reasonable idea, or have I argued with myself and answered my own questions and go back to the drawing board?

In peace

Adam

 

[MidnightFlyer]

For starters:
- Stoke loses all services to Wolves, Birmingham and beyond, and 40% of its Manchester service
- Edinburgh, Newcastle and Co. Durham loses its direct twice-hourly service to (if I read this correctly) Birmingham, Bristol and the Westcountry
- Plymouth and the rest of the Westcountry loses direct connections to Birmingham and beyond, which I thought would be essential for tourism
- It remains significantly quicker for Liverpool-Birmingham passengers to remain on the current services via Runcorn

I think effectively abandoning Birmingham from long-distance cross-country trains would be incredibly, well, stupid.

 

[adrock1976]

Reading an earlier post on nodal points and East - West rail, I have an idea in my head.

The XC network could simply run from Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, and York in the north via Birmingham to Cardiff, Bristol, and Reading in the South. This would form the "core" of the XC services.

The Liverpool and Manchester departures could run every 30 minutes by running along the Liverpool & Manchester Railway to Earlestown and then the Grand Junction to Warrington Bank Quay. The services could couple/detach at WBQ (4 Platforms, so out of the way of ICWC services) and proceed via Birmingham to Reading. Obviously, Stockport would no longer directly be served, but there are services to Crewe where passengers can connect into.

One train could start from each of York and Leeds, with the York service calling at Doncaster and the Leeds service calling at Wakefield (either Westgate or Kirkgate - if Kirkgate, then maybe also Barnsley), where both the services would couple up or detach at Sheffield. This would require planning at SHF so as not to get in the way of the Lincolnshire/Hull Paragon/St Pancras services that use the through platforms. The services could detach/couple up at Bristol Parkway, but again, would get in the way of the ICGW services to/from Paddington, and would involve coupling up/detaching twice during the same journey. However, it would give a frequency of every 30 minutes between Sheffield and Bristol Parkway via Birmingham.

Alternatively, the Leeds service could run to Cardiff Central via Bristol Parkway, with the York service running to Bristol Temple Meads, with both running as double formation which would be a lot easier. Again, it would provide a frequency of every 30 minutes between Sheffield and Bristol Parkway. Obviously, this would reduce Bristol Temple Meads from every 30 minutes to every 60 minutes, hence the Cardiff service being routed via Parkway to provide connections.

What about the section between Bristol and Devon/Cornwall, and Reading and Bournemouth? The paths vacated could be used for the East - West Rail scheme, with an hourly Plymouth via Bristol, Swindon, Oxford, Bedford Midland, stations via Sheffield to Doncaster, then calling at York, Newcastle Central, and Edinburgh Waverley.

The Bournemouth to Reading section could continue as above via the East - West Rail to Edinburgh Waverley, giving a frequency of every 30 minutes between Edinburgh and Oxford.

I know this seems somewhat controversial, as there would no longer be any direct services between Birmingham and Devon/Cornwall, but my idea was by reducing the distance of the present XC intercity services that run through Birmingham i.e making it into a medium - distance regional service, the services from points further south could then be a true Intercity type service with proper coaching stock, by running over the E-W Rail link, with the medium distance regional services via Birmingham running in 2 units coupled up for the majority of its distance.

What do people think - a reasonable idea, or have I argued with myself and answered my own questions and go back to the drawing board?

In peace

Adam

After thinking it through some more, I have revised my ideas slightly.

Newcastle Central to Cardiff Central via Doncaster, Birmingham, and Bristol Parkway retaining the same calling pattern as present NCL to BHM, then Cheltenham, Bristol Parkway, Newport, and Cardiff Central.

Leeds to Plymouth/Penzance with the same calling pattern via Birmingham as present, with a service every 2 hours extending beyond Plymouth to Penzance. Alternatively, this could be diverted via Wakefield Kirkgate and Barnsley, calling at both stations. Both of these services would provide a frequency of every 30 minutes between Sheffield and Bristol Parkway via Birmingham.

Liverpool and Manchester to Reading via Birmingham every 30 minutes, with coupling/detaching done at either Warrington Bank Quay, Crewe, or Stafford. If WBQ or Crewe, the present calls at Macclesfield and Stoke - on Trent could be covered by a new regional service from Birmingham to Preston via Manchester and Bolton, restoring a direct link that was lost between Stoke and Preston via Bolton. In addition, extend the London Euston to BHM service that calls at Watford Junction to Leeds calling at Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke, Macclesfield, Stockport, Stalybridge, Huddersfield, and Leeds (the London & North Western Railway route to Leeds). This would restore parts of the north west having a direct service to Watford without having to go into Euston to come back out again. The BHM - PRE via Bolton and the EUS - LDS services would combine to provide a 30 minute frequency between Birmingham and Stockport via Stoke - on - Trent.

The Southampton and Bristol Temple Meads services to Edinburgh Waverley via East - West Rail would remain broadly similar, as in my previous post.

An hourly Bristol Temple Meads to Edinburgh Waverley calling at Swindon, Oxford, Bedford Midland, Leicester London Road, Derby, Sheffield, Doncaster, York, Newcastle Central, and Edinburgh Waverley.

The Bournemouth to Reading section could continue as above via the East - West Rail to Edinburgh Waverley, giving a frequency of every 30 minutes between Edinburgh and Oxford.

Any better ideas, or would that be the end of my blue sky thinking?

In peace

Adam

 

[Whistler40145]

I would run several of the Newcastle to Cardiff services via Gloucester & Chepstow.

 

[The Planner]

Apart from not liking the idea of splitting and joining the services you wouldn't do it at Crewe or Warrington as it slows the Manchester to Brum service down, if it had to be done you would do it at Stafford. It would also make Norton Bridge superfluous as the time taking splitting and joint wipes out any benefit that had. You are also making an existing Virgin service a XC one to Leeds, that service is being tried by open access, Virgin would tell you to get lost anyway.