Angry folk on social media etc

[Bishopstone]

I was browsing the transcripts of a recent SWT web chat, earlier, and there they were: the two or three individuals not seeking answers to reasonable questions, or even expressing healthy scepticism about SWT's 'good news' stories, but instead using the opportunity to rant at great length and with considerable bitterness about how SWT was ruining their lives with it's awful service. (Trains always late, carriages always filthy, staff always rude etc).

Different individuals, I'm sure, but the same type inhabit the Southern Passenger Panel, of which I'm a member. One loses no opportunity to protest at why Dorking - Horsham doesn't have a half-hourly service from dawn until midnight, forcing Southern to go over the same ground repeatedly: ie, in essence, the demand isn't there.

I've become familiar with a few TOC Twitter feeds, and on each a handful of (different) individuals crop-up: making petty points and banging-on until they 'win'; full of bile and generally obsessed with their own narrow agendas. Some appear to be actively baiting the social media staff, who should be commended for keeping their cool. There are a number who appear to be on Twitter every night, relating a tale of woe about their commute, which is often an ambitious long distance one.

Did social media create these behaviours, or just provide an easy outlet for them? There's some fascinating material for case studies in mental health, where the level of stress/tension exhibited by some must be seriously detrimental to their well-being.

Sometimes, I'm so tempted to Tweet back to them (copying-in the TOC): 'If it's all such a stressful misery, why not get a job in your home town?'

But I don't think the intervention would be appreciated, although most large towns in the south-east are fortunate enough to have decent employment opportunities.

I admit to the odd Tweet to Southern myself, when they put four coaches on a summer Saturday train or don't hold a connection for two minutes, but for some, I think the ability to express frustration in a fairly easy way, instantaneously, is exacerbating their problems rather than alleviating them.

 

[Fincra5]

Social media seems to have made everyone a self-made expert on everything, including the Railways...
People do just use it as a vent of anger, usually they might have to wait 5-30 mins for another train. It seems to be the end of their worlds...
The self-made experts believe they know the reason, when they really don't.

 

[Purplepiepete]

"Sometimes, I'm so tempted to Tweet back to them (copying-in the TOC): 'If it's all such a stressful misery, why not get a job in your home town?' "

Agreed - The rail commute is the 4th preferable choice - but obviously cheaper
1. Get a job near where you live
2. Move closer to your job
3. Drive

 

[Drsatan]

The reason why passengers vent their frustration about delayed/cancelled trains, short-formed trains and so on on Twitter is because, from what I've noticed, some passengers believe TOCs deliberately cancel trains & run short-formed trains out of spite, wherein in reality the reason may be beyond the TOC's control.

A good example would be GA which suffers from a shortage of rolling stock. Naturally passengers would feel frustrated about having to stand on a short-formed Liverpool Street to Colchester service (or similar), and then pin the blame on the TOC. Explaining that there's a shortage of rolling stock & that the GA franchise is a 'plain vanilla' franchise that didn't include provision for extra rolling stock won't cut any ice.

I've also noticed that many TOC twitter pages have semi-regular trolls who get into arguments, presumably for fun. A good example is a well-known GA 'hater' who rants about how GA is to blame for absolutely everything, despite being told by railway staff & others on Twitter that it isn't necessarily the case. Additionally, many trolls fail to propose any solutions.

In short, without seeming patronising, the customer isn't always right!

 

[EM2]

It isn't necessarily cheaper. Many people own a car anyway, and the petrol and extra servicing would almost certainly be substantially less than their season ticket.
Running a motorcycle could be even cheaper.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It isn't necessarily cheaper. Many people own a car anyway, and the petrol and extra servicing would almost certainly be substantially less than their season ticket. Running a motorcycle could be even cheaper.

Hoping not to be seen as unkind, a reading of some postings on the RailUK website seem to be made by those who know all about trains and railways, grudgingly accept the existence of light railway systems, buses and coaches but have a complete "blind spot" to the vast public ownership of cars and motorcycles...:roll:.

 

[transmanche]

Some appear to be actively baiting the social media staff, who should be commended for keeping their cool.

Best TOC response to a sweary tweet is this one from East Coast, on a day when flash flooding severely disrupted services on the ECML.

 

[Bishopstone]

Best TOC response to a sweary tweet is this one from East Coast, on a day when flash flooding severely disrupted services on the ECML.

Good one. It wouldn't have been justified for a polite but naive enquiry, but when you engage with another human being with that sort of language, you're asking for such a response, in my view.

On the trolling point raised elsewhere, TOCs seem quite slow to block such people. I guess they just re-emerge the next day with a different Twitter handle. Still, the other option is simply never to respond, which ruins the 'fun' for the troll.

 

[TUC]

Social media seems to have made everyone a self-made expert on everything, including the Railways...
People do just use it as a vent of anger, usually they might have to wait 5-30 mins for another train. It seems to be the end of their worlds...
The self-made experts believe they know the reason, when they really don't.

There 's two different issues though. Undoubtedly there are some obsessives that go on endlessly abut the same issue but there is a genuine and legitimate customer role in refusing to accept second best. There does seem to be an attitude in certain parts of the rail industry that seems genuinely unable to cope with customers putting on pressure for change. Calling them self made experts and taking a 'daddy knows best' attitude win't wash. For customers,,the railway is just another business like Tesco. Why should they have any less expectations about customer responsiveness in rail than anywhere else they do business with?

 

[hassaanhc]

I don't know why but this behaviour by people annoys me so much . Maybe it is the fact that they can't see the bigger picture beyond themselves and the "I am important get out of my way" attitude? Or the expectation of 100% service simply because they are paying for it? Happens to mainly be commuters that show this, often with a 4 figure sum of how much they are paying. And then the good old human nature of concentrating on the negatives and not the positives.
I follow the South West Trains Twitter feed and the language/behaviour of some of those people really annoys me. To be honest I don't get how the staff put up with it, always keeping their cool and not even blocking repeat offenders (the "SouthWestPains" person is the worst :roll.

Some examples of my most annoying:
A woman who wasn't happy about a guard being "rude" because he simply asked her to not use her phone in the quiet zone, because she said it was an "emergency" so according to her it becomes ok.
Complaining that their train is always minutes late (usually no more than 5 minutes).
That short formations are deliberate, or are deliberately on the busiest services.

Once someone said I was in a minority when I told them that I rarely encounter delays and had no issues with SWT's service. Ok I don't use them everyday (but do a few times a week) but still, I think that some of the complaints are exaggerated and experiences are nowhere near as bad as some people like to make out.

 

[TUC]

I the expectation of 100% service simply because they are paying for it.

What an unreasonable rationale for expecting good service ...

 

[hassaanhc]

What an unreasonable rationale for expecting good service ...

Not worded the best it was more to do with demanding refunds for the slightest delays, but thinking about it I can see where they're coming from still no excuse for bad language though

 

[Minilad]

The thing that winds me up with a lot of them is that they nearly always say the train is ALWAYS late or ALWAYS dirty and such like. I doubt there are many trains that are ALWAYS late

 

[transmanche]

Or the expectation of 100% service simply because they are paying for it?

People expecting to receive a service that they've paid for? Outrageous!

 

[hassaanhc]

People expecting to receive a service that they've paid for? Outrageous!

That is what you get for typing something quickly without fully checking it was more to do with unreasonable demands or not using civil language that I was talking about

 

[387star]

Have these passengers been on a pacer

 

[Bishopstone]

I don't know why but this behaviour by people annoys me so much . Maybe it is the fact that they can't see the bigger picture beyond themselves and the "I am important get out of my way" attitude? Or the expectation of 100% service simply because they are paying for it? Happens to mainly be commuters that show this, often with a 4 figure sum of how much they are paying. .

Yes, I see that quite a lot, although I find it ironic when people on cheap Advances try the same line:

Delayed 20 mins. Well worth £30 First Class fare, Paddington - Penzance, NOT!

Of course the TOCs aren't perfect, and day to day make some poor operational decisions or don't communicate well. But what I would find frustrating as a Twitter operative is the inability of some people to accept the railway is a complex system, where every operational decision has a knock-on. Instead, every delay has to be the result of laziness, or incompetence, or profiteering.

Many of these Twitter-ragers appear to hold jobs in London that, presumably, are quite well paid and come with a degree of managerial responsibility and a requirement to make tricky decisions, under pressure. Yet if they get to Victoria and find the East Grinstead is cancelled due to a tree on the line, it must - irrationally - be some sort of conspiracy directed at them personally.

I suspect most of these folk are just unhappy generally, and the railway bears the brunt of it via Twitter.

 

[Dave1987]

Yes, I see that quite a lot, although I find it ironic when people on cheap Advances try the same line:

Delayed 20 mins. Well worth £30 First Class fare, Paddington - Penzance, NOT!

Of course the TOCs aren't perfect, and day to day make some poor operational decisions or don't communicate well. But what I would find frustrating as a Twitter operative is the inability of some people to accept the railway is a complex system, where every operational decision has a knock-on. Instead, every delay has to be the result of laziness, or incompetence, or profiteering.

Many of these Twitter-ragers appear to hold jobs in London that, presumably, are quite well paid and come with a degree of managerial responsibility and a requirement to make tricky decisions, under pressure. Yet if they get to Victoria and find the East Grinstead is cancelled due to a tree on the line, it must - irrationally - be some sort of conspiracy directed at them personally.

I suspect most of these folk are just unhappy generally, and the railway bears the brunt of it via Twitter.

Ow come on remember trees on the line, lorries bashing bridges, fatalities, ill passengers, trespassers etc are all the TOC's fault. One wonders whether they complain to the Highways agency when they are delayed 10 mins on the motorway and claim delay repay?

 

[transmanche]

That is what you get for typing something quickly without fully checking it was more to do with unreasonable demands or not using civil language that I was talking about

I agree with that. Yes obviously some people's language is unacceptable and some people's expectations are unrealistic.

But it's the railway industry who decided to start calling people customers. And customers don't care if providing the service they've paid for is 'difficult' - delivery of the service is not their problem.

 

[Bishopstone]

The thing that winds me up with a lot of them is that they nearly always say the train is ALWAYS late or ALWAYS dirty and such like. I doubt there are many trains that are ALWAYS late

To be fair, a number of the trains on my regular commute are almost always late, although often by less than five minutes. I've frequently wondered why they don't just pad the timetable a bit more, to reflect operational reality.

 

[quarella]

or don't hold a connection for two minute

Because it rarely is two minutes. Your late running train arriving 2 minutes after your connection is timed to depart even with a cross platform change is going to be at least 5 minutes leading to missed path, knock on delays, more missed connections further down the line.

 

[455driver]

Ow come on remember trees on the line, lorries bashing bridges, fatalities, ill passengers, trespassers etc are all the TOC's fault. One wonders whether they complain to the Highways agency when they are delayed 10 mins on the motorway and claim delay repay?

You are quite right of course, in a couple of weeks I am due to go on a course to learn how to use a chainsaw properly (the last time I used it the tree missed the railway line ) and a month after that I am going to learn how to drive a 15ft high Artic into a 14ft high bridge!
I have manged to avoid the 'drink 20 gallons of water an hour so you can flood the railway' course, I dont think my bladder could take it!

People dont realise how much money the TOCs spend to try and get these things right!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

To be fair, a number of the trains on my regular commute are almost always late, although often by less than five minutes. I've frequently wondered why they don't just pad the timetable a bit more, to reflect operational reality.

Is that public times or working times?

 

[Bishopstone]

Because it rarely is two minutes. Your late running train arriving 2 minutes after your connection is timed to depart even with a cross platform change is going to be at least 5 minutes leading to missed path, knock on delays, more missed connections further down the line.

Which is all fine, and accepted.

Except when, half an hour later, the same connection is held for six minutes, delaying further those on the 'branch' train whose own connection wasn't held for two minutes.

 

[mrredrunner100]

my opinion in this is that people shouldn't use language like this directed at the twitter accounts because they do a heck of a lot (the whole TOC in general really) because without them no trains would run (or it would be very difficult) and yeah it is a complex system like someone said. and the twitter accounts are great, i get a reply to most of my tweets to GA within about 45 minutes

an with the east coast tweet that was posted, firstly the response is pretty funny and like someone said it is good for people to lighten the moods during that time due to the weather. and secondly that language i wouldn't use that language to anybody like that. another point is why do people think its acceptable just because there a company and its the first person they can reach, so i think the person who created the original tweet complaining did deserve the response. the thing is the TOC's can't control the weather, trees falling down, people being ill, people messing around with alarms and lots of other stuff so why is it when they tell you about the delay that people miss the point that it is something like the weather causing the problems that the public just go and moan at the TOC twitter account for it when they cant do anything. and also as long as a traveller hasnt booked on a train, you can just wait for the next one, around london i know you wont have to wait long (further afield possible) however problems like signal problems and broken down trains, yes they are annoying but if it happens there is not a lot you (the public) can do, and people shouldnt take it out in this way.

i do find it really annoying that public do this

thats how i see it anyway

more posts appeard whilst i was typing this

 

[Bishopstone]

Is that public times or working times?

Late against the public timetable. Example - 18.23 London Bridge - Eastbourne, on departure from Lewes. I'm pretty sure the WTT is identical here, give or take a minute. Anyway, this train is often 5 -15 down from Lewes.

eg January 2014

Advertised departure time from Lewes, 1927.

Actuals:

02.01: 19.44
03.01: 19.51
06.01: 19.49
07.01: 19.34
08.01: 19.50
09.01: 19.52
10.01: 19.38
13.01: 19.35
14.01: 19.57
15.01: 19.31
16.01: 19.29
17.01: Cancelled
20.01: 19.38
21.01: 19.35 (Cancelled from London Bridge, started from East Croydon)
22.01: 19.39
23.01: 19.33
24.01: 19.51
27.01: 19.30
28.01: 19.31
29.01: 19.33

etc, etc

 

[EM2]

Except when, half an hour later, the same connection is held for six minutes, delaying further those on the 'branch' train whose own connection wasn't held for two minutes.

But half-an-hour later, the knock-on delays and so on may not be so substantial.
Any delay can lead to changes over a wide area and over a long time and they vary from situation to situation. It's a massive balancing act and sometimes, the railway gets it wrong.

 

[Dave1987]

Twitter and social media in general gives the average Joe a voice. In some aspects that is good. In terms of the railways I think it's not good at all, especially when after a fatality idiots tweet "why does it take so long to clear up the body parts" or words to that effect. Social media actually shows us how heartless, naive and narrow minded Joe public can be at times.

My opinion is all TOC twitter accounts should be an info service only, customer services are there for complaints.

 

[455driver]

That 18:23 departure (and all the xx:23s) doesnt look to have sufficient/any standing time at stations so its no wonder it loses time during the rush hour.

 

[hassaanhc]

Twitter and social media in general gives the average Joe a voice. In some aspects that is good. In terms of the railways I think it's not good at all, especially when after a fatality idiots tweet "why does it take so long to clear up the body parts" or words to that effect. Social media actually shows us how heartless, naive and narrow minded Joe public can be at times.

My opinion is all TOC twitter accounts should be an info service only, customer services are there for complaints.

I know the South West Trains one is for service updates mainly. Issues like heating on in warm weather, dirty seats etc or even trees/bushes hitting the sides of trains are forwarded to maintenance, or train performance issues forwarded to the performance team, as well as very basic general customer service advice (e.g. if Oyster is valid at a certain station or posting web links to information). For more complex issues or more in depth replies they say to contact customer services, including complaints.

 

[swj99]

My opinion is all TOC twitter accounts should be an info service only, customer services are there for complaints.

The problem I envisage with this is that anyone can set up a twitter account or a facebook page and call it what they like. Once set up, they can criticise the TOC. So isn't it better for the TOC itself to administer and control the page and moderate what is on there, and exercise the right of reply ?