Angry folk on social media etc

[LowLevel]

I agree with that. Yes obviously some people's language is unacceptable and some people's expectations are unrealistic.

But it's the railway industry who decided to start calling people customers. And customers don't care if providing the service they've paid for is 'difficult' - delivery of the service is not their problem.

Most of it gets ignored with a polite 'we'll pass on your feedback' or 'contact customer services' unless it can be substantiated. I personally like the London Midland etc style approach where they respond to abusive numptys, generally advising them that they've been blocked. Having met several TOC twitter operators, I'm sure people wouldn't be as foul mouthed towards them if they met them in real life (at least a couple of them are extremely pretty!).

Many people's expectation are somewhat unreasonable particularly when it comes to external factors. There comes a point when you have to ignore them and they either carry on using your service moaning to themselves or actually move on.

Having dealt with delays arising from more than a couple of fatalities I've walked off and abandoned arse holes to their own devices when they been disrespectful in the extreme both to the deceased and my colleagues who had to deal with the affair and I've never had any comeback from it despite numerous veiled threats.

 

[Bishopstone]

That 18:23 departure (and all the xx:23s) doesnt look to have sufficient/any standing time at stations so its no wonder it loses time during the rush hour.

That, and a few other issues, eg:

- use of 442s with relatively slow loading/unloading due to end doors, versus 377. Typical dwell time of 2 minutes at East Croydon.

- relatively poor acceleration (and braking, I think) of 442s, versus 377.

- frequent stops on the 18.23, exaggerating the impact of the above.

- wheelslip issues in times of poor adhesion, especially at Plumpton/Cooksbridge, where the 442s are much worse than the 377s.

- late arrival of the ECS from Streatham, due to 'end of peak' congestion at London Bridge.

- delayed departure due to conflicting (late) movements at London Bridge.

- congestion at Gatwick, often caused by late-running FCC stuff.

- 442s being generally less reliable than the 377s, with sundry mechanical/electrical problems delaying the train.

As the log shows, this train simply doesn't work as timetabled/diagrammed, and whilst January was a particularly bad month, on-time departures from Lewes have always been less than 20%, whatever the season and even before the London Bridge re-building work started.

 

[455driver]

I didnt realise it was a 442, that would account for it!

Your post sums it up nicely.
yes the brakes are poor because I dont think they use the autobrake nowadays.

 

[transmanche]

Many people's expectation are somewhat unreasonable particularly when it comes to external factors. There comes a point when you have to ignore them and they either carry on using your service moaning to themselves or actually move on.

Having dealt with delays arising from more than a couple of fatalities I've walked off and abandoned arse holes to their own devices when they been disrespectful in the extreme both to the deceased and my colleagues who had to deal with the affair and I've never had any comeback from it despite numerous veiled threats.

Sadly these issues are not confined to the railway industry - nor are they new. Over two decades ago, I worked as a bank cashier. Following an armed raid, I went to lock the front door whilst we awaited the arrival of the police - but as I locked the door, I received a tirade of abuse from a customer who demanded to be let in to cash a cheque.

My opinion is all TOC twitter accounts should be an info service only, customer services are there for complaints.

But back to Twitter. It can be an excellent channel for dealing with instant customer issues; whether reporting issues (e.g. fault on a train), asking questions, receiving service updates and so forth.

Having used social media (Twitter, Facebook and various web forums) as part of my job, I can assure you it's a great way to engage with customers - and for the company, the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[jon0844]

Twitter is excellent for both the customer and the company, if used properly.

I wish more businesses, in fact ALL businesses, would make it quite clear that abusive Tweets will be ignored, reported or see that person barred.

Given this new power of given to people who might not have once had such a 'voice', it needs to become socially unacceptable as the abuse on Twitter is quite shocking.

This would then stop a lot of problems, especially if people were dealt with somehow for clearly stalking some companies (and even sometimes the people who operate the Twitter account, as many now give their name) and harassing them with made-up or exaggerated complaints.

 

[Bodiddly]

Twitter is excellent for both the customer and the company, if used properly.

I wish more businesses, in fact ALL businesses, would make it quite clear that abusive Tweets will be ignored, reported or see that person barred.

Given this new power of given to people who might not have once had such a 'voice', it needs to become socially unacceptable as the abuse on Twitter is quite shocking.

This would then stop a lot of problems, especially if people were dealt with somehow for clearly stalking some companies (and even sometimes the people who operate the Twitter account, as many now give their name) and harassing them with made-up or exaggerated complaints.

Where do you draw the line though? One abusive tweet in the eyes of the TOC is an irate customers legitimate beef with the terrible service they could just have received. Twitter is a powerful tool and an almost instant vent of anger can be posted if done so. The thing that annoys me most about twitter though, is the tweeter themselves. In the majority of occasions where a tweeter feels it necessary to share their experience with anyone who can be bothered actually reading their dull life posts, they would never ever complain vocally, and even if they were asked if everything is OK, would probably say "yes, fine thanks"!
Abuse is abuse which ever way you look at it and can't be tolerated. Not many other industries or public bodies would stand for it.
So why should the railway?

 

[transmanche]

Abuse is abuse which ever way you look at it and can't be tolerated. Not many other industries or public bodies would stand for it. So why should the railway?

Do you think the railway is somehow unique in provoking the ire of customers? Of course not. All large business will get messages containing bad language; whether by phone, email, twitter or in person.

 

[Bodiddly]

Do you think the railway is somehow unique in provoking the ire of customers? Of course not. All large business will get messages containing bad language; whether by phone, email, twitter or in person.

But that's the point I'm making, I know for a fact that our regional council don't put up with abuse, and they warn you quite clearly about abusing the process of getting in contact. TOC's on the other hand, seem to be terrified of annoying anyone just in case they get bad press, and seem to pander to the keyboard warriors that bit more

 

[LBSCR Times]

But that's the point I'm making, I know for a fact that our regional council don't put up with abuse, and they warn you quite clearly about abusing the process of getting in contact. TOC's on the other hand, seem to be terrified of annoying anyone just in case they get bad press, and seem to pander to the keyboard warriors that bit more

Also, there are posters on stations about abusing staff, but what is the difference. Having said that, one could argue that the tweeter is abusing the company, as opposed to the individual. But where do you draw the line.

Yes, some companies do ban persistent tweeters for being abusive / trolling, but they just set up another account and carry on again.

 

[Greenback]

Twitter is excellent for both the customer and the company, if used properly.

I wish more businesses, in fact ALL businesses, would make it quite clear that abusive Tweets will be ignored, reported or see that person barred.

Given this new power of given to people who might not have once had such a 'voice', it needs to become socially unacceptable as the abuse on Twitter is quite shocking.

This would then stop a lot of problems, especially if people were dealt with somehow for clearly stalking some companies (and even sometimes the people who operate the Twitter account, as many now give their name) and harassing them with made-up or exaggerated complaints.

I completely agree. I don;t understand why companies accept the sort of language in Tweets that they would never accept via any other medium. And, in doing so, they are in effect condoning such behaviour and encouraging others to do the same.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do you think the railway is somehow unique in provoking the ire of customers? Of course not. All large business will get messages containing bad language; whether by phone, email, twitter or in person.

Indeed they do, and wherever I've worked such messages are delat with appropriately, either by a call being terminated, an email deleted, or the person being asked to leave the premises.

It should be the same with Twitter. If people can't conduct themselves ina reasonable manner, presumably because it's the internet and anything is allowed, then they should be ignored and/or blocked.

 

[jon0844]

Do you think the railway is somehow unique in provoking the ire of customers? Of course not. All large business will get messages containing bad language; whether by phone, email, twitter or in person.

Of course, but we seem to think it's okay to then continue to talk to them.

Face to face, there's the issue of conflict avoidance. You might have to listen, accept their crap and try and let them calm down - but online, on the phone, by email or post, there should be zero tolerance.

To allow people to shout louder and louder and get their way just makes it acceptable. Sadly, we need to 'educate' people what's acceptable of not, just as we've tried over the years to make drinking and driving socially unacceptable.

I've said this many times, but if you go to the USA where you'd regard customer service as being excellent (by and large), they won't tolerate any abuse. They'll be incredibly courteous to you until you cross the line and then you're told to stop or the conversation ends right there.

And anyone that does cross the line in public isn't supported by people around them, because everyone knows it's unacceptable.

To clarify; there's a difference between being abusive and having a rant because you're upset.

 

[GodAtum]

I'm guilty of ranting online on many occasions, but I never have been abusive. I have tried to be constructive in my criticism.

The railways are oddly one of the only thing in life that gets me upset. i have cried when trains are late but not at family's funerals.

 

[Greenback]

Of course, but we seem to think it's okay to then continue to talk to them.

Face to face, there's the issue of conflict avoidance. You might have to listen, accept their crap and try and let them calm down - but online, on the phone, by email or post, there should be zero tolerance.

In my workplaces, when someone became abusive face to face, they generally got one warning if they were lucky, and then security would excort them off the premises until they calmed down.

If they were violent or threatening, they were not allowed back. When I worked on the railway quite a few abusive passengers were escorted off the station, as luckily we usually had BTP or security officers on site.

To allow people to shout louder and louder and get their way just makes it acceptable. Sadly, we need to 'educate' people what's acceptable of not, just as we've tried over the years to make drinking and driving socially unacceptable.

I agree, and a zero tolerance approach helps to convince people that shouting, screaming and making a fuss is not going to work in their favour.

I've said this many times, but if you go to the USA where you'd regard customer service as being excellent (by and large), they won't tolerate any abuse. They'll be incredibly courteous to you until you cross the line and then you're told to stop or the conversation ends right there.

Absolutely correct. When I travelled cross country on Amtrak, I was surprised by how terse the announcements on what you must not do were compared to our rather more flowery use of English!

But to me, good customer service is all about establishing what the boundaries are anyway, there is no point encouraging a person to think that you can help them when you can't, for example if what they want is impossible.

And anyone that does cross the line in public isn't supported by people around them, because everyone knows it's unacceptable.

To clarify; there's a difference between being abusive and having a rant because you're upset.

Indeed. I was always happy to let people have their say if they were simply frustrated or upset. But I would ask them to remain civil and polite if they started to get a little colourful!

 

[Tetchytyke]

A good example would be GA which suffers from a shortage of rolling stock. Naturally passengers would feel frustrated about having to stand on a short-formed Liverpool Street to Colchester service (or similar), and then pin the blame on the TOC.

Greater Anglia is a very good example.

They are "short of stock" having allowed a number of 317s to go off-lease. Whose fault is that? Abellio's.

But when push comes to shove, why shouldn't someone complain when they're paying £5000 a year for a service that isn't being delivered?

To clarify; there's a difference between being abusive and having a rant because you're upset.

Indeed, and too many people on here think even the mildest rant is "abusive".

I agree, and a zero tolerance approach helps to convince people that shouting, screaming and making a fuss is not going to work in their favour.

That's exactly what should happen. "Repeat that and we will block you, that is not acceptable language". Most people calm down when they're told that. Most of the effing and blinding is pure frustration.

 

[AngusH]

In general I agree with the previous comments.

But, if someone is angry, I'd much prefer them to be angry on twitter. Rather than angry in person with a member of the staff or a fellow passenger.

Worst case with twitter the person can be blocked and the twitter-responder can take a break. In person, the worst case could be vastly worse.

Sadly some people resort to violence when angry and something that reduces this is probably a good thing. Violence can and should be prosecuted when it happens, but this doesn't exactly help the victims after the event

As more general thought, I also believe more effort should be expended industry wide in identifying and reducing unnecessary causes of confusion and conflict between passengers and frontline staff in the industry. In particular blocking the introduction of new schemes that might increase conflict. (The HS1 ticketing surcharging is a possible example here)

More explanations of why things are the way they are and better guidance for inexperienced passengers would also both be useful.

Actual improvements to certain issues would be good too, but that is a separate more difficult problem.

(sorry, hope this wasn't too much of a rant)

 

[Geezertronic]

Social Media is an idiots paradise. Plenty of "keyboard warriors" would slag people off on social media but wouldn't say boo if you were face to face. Those who would say boo to your face are just idiots looking for trouble.

There are ways of dealing with problems both on social media & face to face and an expletive-filled rant is not one of them in either situation.

 

[AngusH]

Yes, there are definitely some idiots using twitter, but I definitely think that having rail companies (and others) giving near real time updates to passengers and answering questions about the service is a great thing to have and worth the (few) downsides.

If I know about a disruption or problem early, I can rethink my plans, use another route or travel another day. Much better than getting to the station and finding a problem.

It probably wouldn't exist without Twitter, because I don't think the money would have been found to do the technology development.

 

[northwichcat]

One problem with social media accounts for TOCs is the people manning them tend to respond generically.

For instance, I saw someone complain about Northern doing nothing to inform passengers at Navigation Road when a train is cancelled. Northern's response was "Was there no PA announcement" - this relates to a line where most stations have no passenger information system at all. The Northern Rail customer relations team seem to forget about the 'poor' parts of the network from their cosy office at Leeds station but could easily go on to NRE and check station facilities before responding.