Train hits platform buffers at Chester

[LNW-GW Joint]

All back to normal today.
P1 in normal use with a new set of shiny buffers.
The platform damage looks to have been caused by the old buffers being pushed back - bits of ironwork are still protruding.

 

[ryan125hst]

All back to normal today.
P1 in normal use with a new set of shiny buffers.
The platform damage looks to have been caused by the old buffers being pushed back - bits of ironwork are still protruding.

That was quick! I'm guessing they were working throughout the night to fix it?

 

[cymro inside]

yesterday afternoon Nr staff were busy removing the buffers from the disused tamper siding by Chester power box, I assume these have been re-used at Platform 1

 

[JB25]

At any point in history have trains ever meant to touch buffers? Or was Thomas the Tank Engine lying to me all along?! hock:

 

[richw]

At any point in history have trains ever meant to touch buffers? Or was Thomas the Tank Engine lying to me all along?! hock:

Thomas is correct, if the Wikipedia page entitled "Buffer Stop" is to be believe, however personally I don't know!

 

[merlodlliw]

That was quick! I'm guessing they were working throughout the night to fix it?

They were,this being ATWs 2nd busiest managed station on its entire network

 

[DarloRich]

They were,this being ATWs 2nd busiest managed station on its entire network

yes - i am sure the ATW staff did loads of track work and installed the new buffers themselves.

 

[andypops]

yes - i am sure the ATW staff did loads of track work and installed the new buffers themselves.

 

[Zoidberg]

yes - i am sure the ATW staff did loads of track work and installed the new buffers themselves.

Well, they would, wouldn't they?

(ATW does stand for 'All Track Works', doesn't it )

 

[455driver]

Thomas is correct, if the Wikipedia page entitled Buffer Stop is to be believe, however personally I don't know!

Ordinarily no but I know of several places where buffer stops are connected with regularly, and yes it is intensional, the train wouldnt fit otherwise. Gentle into the blocks, compress the buffers together and dump the brake.

 

[A-driver]

At any point in history have trains ever meant to touch buffers? Or was Thomas the Tank Engine lying to me all along?! hock:

Not the stops exactly but the 'stop' boards in the 4foot at kings x platforms 9,10&11 were originally designed for 365s to touch to ensure an 8 car was in clear at the back. I'm not brave enough to try clipping it and stop a few inches short but I was told to touch it and have seen a few trains in there with the coupling jaw wrapped around the post holding up the sign.

 

[Harbon 1]

At any point in history have trains ever meant to touch buffers? Or was Thomas the Tank Engine lying to me all along?! hock:

I've heard a story about drivers in steam days being encouraged to hit the buffers at St Pancras because the hydraulics used in the buffer stops drove the lifts in the hotel

It was a long time ago I heard that mind....

 

[virgin voicer]

tell you what them voyagers are tuff stuff damage dosent look to bad i would expect damage to coupling and maybe panels but i reckon there built to withstand alot more

 

[orpine]

Surely material posted on Twitter is in the public domain and reproducable with attribution.

Public domain is a special thing. But anything posted to twitter (or anywhere, including these posts) is going to be copyrighted for the rest of our lives. I'm not exaggerating. You have to explicitly change the license to something more user friendly, otherwise it's all locked up forever.

 

[Muzer]

Surely material posted on Twitter is in the public domain and reproducable with attribution. I don't think Zoidberg is passing those images off as his own, but he should have supplied a credit to the original photographer / tweeter.

No, why would it be? You automatically have copyright on anything eligible you create, no matter what means you publish it through. This includes a photograph.

I haven't read Twitter's Ts & Cs recently, but knowing these social media sites, they probably also have some rights to use the image (possibly in advertising, if they're as evil as Facebook are) since he posted it there. But this doesn't mean that anyone who isn't him or Twitter can reproduce it.


(PS: Things in the public domain don't require attribution)

 

[Baxenden Bank]

At any point in history have trains ever meant to touch buffers? Or was Thomas the Tank Engine lying to me all along?! hock:

I was always told:

The buffers are there to mark the end of the track, not to stop the train.

 

[Kneedown]

Oh I know, but I believe the button can also be used to help prevent wheelslip in certain weather as it isn't just for hill starts. I could be wrong mind, since it was 3 or 4 years ago that I went for a visit

Apart from the official use which has already been correctly described, it is possible to use it for controlling wheelslip up to about 5mph as it is equivalent to a step 1 brake application, similar to how the anti-slip button on a 47 worked. Over 5 mph and the button cuts out (going on previous class 170 knowledge)
I don't recall it ever being authorised as an official technique for controlling wheelslip under Central Trains, and accelerating on a lower power notch was the official way, and remains so on EMT

 

[island]

Surely material posted on Twitter is in the public domain and reproducable with attribution.

That is quite wrong.

 

[northwichcat]

That is quite wrong.

Yep. BBCNWT tweeted the person who took the photo asking for their permission to use it for the BBC news story.

 

[SprinterMan]

Any idea if a driving car from 221144 is going to be used? (I hope so, they deserve to get out more :P )

Adam

 

[455driver]

Oh I know, but I believe the button can also be used to help prevent wheelslip in certain weather as it isn't just for hill starts. I could be wrong mind, since it was 3 or 4 years ago that I went for a visit

So you dont know and are just guessing then!

You are also completely wrong.

 

[ModernRailways]

So you dont know and are just guessing then!

You are also completely wrong.

No, I wasn't guessing. I remember vaguely that it was do with hill starts and preventing wheel slip but I couldn't remember properly.

Why don't you share what the button does instead of just saying 'you are completely wrong'.

My original post.

I believe you are correct with regards to the 'sanders' being used only for braking.

For any tricky starts the power handle has a small button - which if I remember correctly - is what the driver must push, this tells the train that it is a hill start or their may be wheelslip and alters the train's engines to match.

I can't remember properly, but that was what I was told by a member of staff at Bombardier Derby when I was taken around on a tour.

 

[O L Leigh]

You are wrong because the button you refer to tells the train nothing. It just holds a step 1 brake application until released. It's simply a way of allowing the brake to be held on while the power controller is open on trains with a combined power/brake controller rather than separate brake and power controllers. It does nothing to kill wheelslip. All it does is prevent the train from rolling forwards or backwards until the motors spool up.

O L Leigh

 

[driver_m]

No, I wasn't guessing. I remember vaguely that it was do with hill starts and preventing wheel slip but I couldn't remember properly.

Why don't you share what the button does instead of just saying 'you are completely wrong'.

My original post.

Look, I sign them. You've got it wrong. It's a hill start, nothing else. Whoever told you that at Bombardier was wrong. We'd use it for that if we could but we can't. No instructor has ever mentioned it being used for that.

You might feel that, as staff, we are jumping down on you, but the most infuriating thing for a member of staff is for someone to say 'oh I heard that whilst talking to x at an open day' and then believe it to be fact.

As a comparison, would anyone go on an airline forum and start saying 'but I thought the switch did that' and and then moan when a pilot tells them it would result in the next week's news?

 

[O L Leigh]

You might feel that, as staff, we are jumping down on you, but the most infuriating thing for a member of staff is for someone to say 'oh I heard that whilst talking to x at an open day' and then believe it to be fact.

As a comparison, would anyone go on an airline forum and start saying 'but I thought the switch did that' and and then moan when a pilot tells them it would result in the next week's news?

Thanks. That neatly sums up the root of my frustrations with this forum.

O L Leigh

 

[dysonsphere]

As a comparison, would anyone go on an airline forum and start saying 'but I thought the switch did that' and and then moan when a pilot tells them it would result in the next week's news?

Dont worry people do just that. Im not a train driver but I have a PPL and we have to cross train between differant aircraft. normally a ground course an an hour in the air with an instructor, guess its the same for train drivers. Switches etc in differant places that sort of thing. They should bring it in fot car drivers as in you have to be type cleared, would sort out the bad drivers.

 

[O L Leigh]

I have a PPL and we have to cross train between differant aircraft. normally a ground course an an hour in the air with an instructor, guess its the same for train drivers. Switches etc in differant places that sort of thing.

Nope.

We are required to be passed competent for each class of traction we drive. No matter how similar another class of traction might be (e.g. Cl317 and Cl321) we cannot simply drive a class we have not been passed competent on. This means a traction conversion course at the very least which involves static training as well as a demonstration of handling and the completion of a written and practical assessment. This then forms part of your competence file.

O L Leigh

 

[VP185]

Apart from the official use which has already been correctly described, it is possible to use it for controlling wheelslip up to about 5mph as it is equivalent to a step 1 brake application, similar to how the anti-slip button on a 47 worked. Over 5 mph and the button cuts out (going on previous class 170 knowledge)
I don't recall it ever being authorised as an official technique for controlling wheelslip under Central Trains, and accelerating on a lower power notch was the official way, and remains so on EMT

Yep, we use the hill start button on the 180s to get the train moving on a badly contaminated rail. It's use in this way isn't official but using the brake has the effect of limiting the amount of power being delivered to the drive axles. 180s are sometimes just too powerful

More common I think, is the use of Step 1 on a tread braked train with power applied. This technique uses the brake blocks to scrub contamination off the surface of the wheel.

 

[O L Leigh]

Not conversant with Cl180s, but...

It sounds like nonsense. If you want to limit the amount of power delivered to the rail you simply need to select a lower power notch, even if it mean going as low as notch 1. I've not tried it for myself, but I seriously doubt that notch 1 power could overcome a step 1 brake application. Therefore the use of the hill start button to counter wheelslip on any DMU should be less effective than the use of a lower power notch together with dropping sand.

In my own experience of both EMU and DMU traction, there isn't a situation that you can't get out of simply through notching up. Holding a step 1 brake against the throttle by means of the hill start button won't get you moving any more efficiently.

O L Leigh

 

[Jonny]

Ordinarily no but I know of several places where buffer stops are connected with regularly, and yes it is intensional, the train wouldnt fit otherwise. Gentle into the blocks, compress the buffers together and dump the brake.

There was me having read http://railsigns.co.uk/info/termsig1/termsig1.html and thinking that buffer stops count as red/danger signals and therefore hitting the buffer stops counts as a SPAD...

So why would arrangements be put in place that require "hitting the buffers" (albeit very softly) for normal operation or is there an exception in these locations?