If it bothers you so much why dont you volunteer yourself to clean the trains?
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What is wrong with Northern Rail?
- Thread starter harry42
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If it bothers you so much why dont you volunteer yourself to clean the trains?
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anti-pacer
Established Member
Next time I go to a restaurant, and I sit at a dirty table, based on your theory I will accept the waiter telling me that the previous person made a mess!
Passengers = Customers = The reason you're employed = The reason why customers deserve good service = The reason why customers travel by train and don't use their cars.
I think Northern Rail suffers from stopping at more dumps than any other TOC thus attracting more people who are likely to litter/misbehave. (I've not yet been to more salubrious areas of London so this may change.)
The other thing I find a problem with is some stations are very much akin to a bus stop shelter on a platform. Scotrail has very similar in the hinterland but they seem to be much more loved (Falls of Cruachan and Invergordon) than places like Nethertown and Trafford Park. As for town stations, Bradford Interchange and Banbury would be good to compare. They both are a similar size (bar the bus station bit) but Banbury station has a nicer feel about it.
The other obvious thing is the rolling stock but this is well known.
The staff are mostly golden though!
Props to those on services radiating from Lancaster when I was at uni for putting up with me lugging my bike around the county!
The other thing I find a problem with is some stations are very much akin to a bus stop shelter on a platform. Scotrail has very similar in the hinterland but they seem to be much more loved (Falls of Cruachan and Invergordon) than places like Nethertown and Trafford Park. As for town stations, Bradford Interchange and Banbury would be good to compare. They both are a similar size (bar the bus station bit) but Banbury station has a nicer feel about it.
The other obvious thing is the rolling stock but this is well known.
The staff are mostly golden though!
Props to those on services radiating from Lancaster when I was at uni for putting up with me lugging my bike around the county!
anti-pacer
Established Member
I tell you what, I'll sell your tickets too! More time for you to sit in your cab and read the paper!
Ever thought about going the extra mile, or was that just talk in your interview?
Unreal!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
and funny how you seem very keen to minimise valid concerns of those who actually do the job. You seem very angry and bitter.
lots of the usual tosh and wibble from the usual suspects.
I have no problem with Northern at all. They play the cards they have been dealt as well as they can. Do they need more and better trains? Of course! Will they get them? No. What are you going to do?
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And we don't want to work on dirty trains either, we are not saying that the trains are sparkly all of the time. But it is not the job of the on train staff to clean the train. As i've said NUMEROUS times a quick clear up of papers is all well and good, but bottles, glass and down backs and sides or seats is a definite no, The same goes for puke, and spillages on the floor, the amount of times I've had cleaners moan at me for putting newspaper on top of it to cover it, well its more I can count on two hands.
The responsibility for litter should be placed on the passenger, if you notice someone about to leave something feel free to tell them, as I said earlier by the time we see it they have been and gone. Then cleaning should be done by cleaners. It is not the drivers / conductors job to do so, if theres not enough cleaners then its the companies fault
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You'll be lucky for him to sell tickets he's a driver
I didnt know you interviewed me or I was a guard (always thought I was a driver but I am obviously wrong on that as well oh enchanted one), you dont have a clue sunshine, not a clue!
Oh I do lots of miles ta, some ordinary, some extra but I expect to be paid for all of them, I dont do volunteer work.
anti-pacer
Established Member
Valid concerns???! I do voluntary litter picks in my area, for free, using litter pickers and gloves! Nobody has given me special training, nobody pays me!
Why is it such an issue to expect to travel on clean trains up here? Do NONE of you care about the state of your trains, areas, etc?
Northerners clearly couldn't give two hoots about cleanliness, hence the reason Southerners think it's "Grim Up North"! You're not kidding!
anti-pacer
Established Member
Oh I do lots of miles ta, some ordinary, some extra but I expect to be paid for all of them, I dont do volunteer work.
Personality summed up in the words highlighted in bold!
Finally a post I agree with, just don't spill any as im not going on the floor to pick it up
Manchester77
Established Member
Actually cannot believe some of the stuff 'anti-pacer' is coming up with :roll:
On the whole northern are a good TOC doing their best with what they have, staff seem nice and friendly around Manchester on newton heath's finest (to quote you paul) and the 150s. Every train you go on will have passenger dirt onboard, I went on a day trip to Llandudno last year and there was what looked like the remains of a picnic lunch on the table. I don't have a massive rant of how bad the TOC is just deal with it use your common sense.
On the whole northern are a good TOC doing their best with what they have, staff seem nice and friendly around Manchester on newton heath's finest (to quote you paul
) and the 150s. Every train you go on will have passenger dirt onboard, I went on a day trip to Llandudno last year and there was what looked like the remains of a picnic lunch on the table. I don't have a massive rant of how bad the TOC is just deal with it use your common sense.Not wanting to aid your argument but saying he drives 455s I don't think he's the North either
Maybe down south as they have less guards / conductors the passnegers maybe take more responsibility for their actions or the TOCS employ more cleaning staff
Manchester77
Established Member
Ok lots of posts have appear one question, why should a drive a job which by my reckoning requires lots of focus and attention for the safety of his/her passengers have to go through on their break and clean up after Dirty Joe when he can't use the bins provided?
Have you got a drink I could borrow, thirsty work this!
Dont tell numbnuts but I do occasionally pick up cans, cups etc and put them in the bin when I have got the time/energy/inclination but I dont want him to have his bubble burst, plus the fact I do have my (hard earned) reputation on here to maintain!
anti-pacer
Established Member
Two options then....
1) More cleaners
2) A clamp down on dirty passengers
Oh and believe me, I've told many a littering scrote on a train! Luckily I'm big enough to do so without comeback.
I do think some of you need to speak to some of your passengers to get their views!
Fair enough you can't magic longer, newer trains - that is accepted! But your companies CAN and SHOULD do something regarding on-train cleanliness.
tbtc
Veteran Member
"Am I ever destined to work in the rail industry?" With that attitude to current members of staff, maybe not...
anti-pacer
Established Member
To be honest, this has put me off!
At least in the job I do, our staff take pride in CUSTOMER service!
How do you clamp down on dirty passengers, its technically not litter until its been left and they've left. Only course of action would be to chase them down the platform Benny Hill style then request details but as Northern don't have CCTV on the majority of units they'll probably claim it wasn't theirs
I do speak to plenty of my passngers, got about 20 of them on facebook. They think our trains are poor and need a clean too but know its not our fault
I am darn sarf and every train I work has a guard and the TOC do employ cleaners at our London terminus (yes its Waterloo
) to clean the trains and they do a damn good job in the 8 minute turnarounds but they have a continuous procession of trains so their costs are viable for the company to stand, but believe me I do one trip on a train and it is as bad as any I have seen oop Norff, I have been to Liverypool and Munchesta (for free).Stop it with the customer is always right malarkey, they aren't. Sorry if that sounds passenger unfriendly but its unfortunately true, we are members of staff not servents
anti-pacer
Established Member
Good point and one accepted.
So what's the answer? Northern seem reluctant to employ more on-board cleaners. You've said yourself that passengers say Northern's trains need a clean. I hear it on the trains sometimes.
What can be done? Dirty passengers will NEVER change their ways, but the rest of us (and yourselves) suffer!
Employ cleaners / train cleaning operatives more often and on a weekend ( a few places only have cleaners through the day). The main problem is that at a multi TOC station then each TOC has its own cleaners pushing up costs but due to fragmentation how do you get around that, saying that Virgin staff do Northern services at a couple of places
The problem also is on some services the rubbish just keeps going. Blackpool North to York is a horrendous one for this
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So you would prefer that, rather than get from one end of the train to the other and set off on time it would be better if I went through the train cleaning it, I can hear the announcement now-
"we are sorry for the delay to your journey but the driver is currently carrying out his cleaning duties and the train will depart when he has finished, we are sorry for any inconvenience this will cause".
The main part of 'customer service' is to run the damn train on time which is what the vast majority of the passengers want!
Manchester77
Established Member
Anti-Pacer you're over exaggerating way too much. You're making out like staff walk through coaches which are overflowing with litter when in reality theres probably a few costa cups under the seats and newspapers on the seats hardly filthy conditions
anti-pacer
Established Member
The customer ISN'T always right, far from it! However, without customers you and I wouldn't be in the jobs we are. That's my point!
We all joke at work that without customers the job would be better. Let's face it though, without customer the job wouldn't exist.
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Depends on individual standards I guess!
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As a driver I wouldn't expect you to clean a train, check tickets or do anything but drive, safely.
And without customer complaints, my customer services team would be out of a job
anti-pacer
Established Member
Only because Northern pay them too.
The Northern franchise is a money pit and is struggling (ALL staff, management or crew, are doing their best but its a well known fact) and yet anti Northern is advocating more costs which will actually make £0 precisely for the company, the accountants wont be happy!
DarloRich
Veteran Member
Minimising concerns again i see!
Not many drug users in your areas then? You might want some special training in the handling, storage and disposal of contaminated sharps. Or do your gloves offer protection against HIV or Hepituts?
How do you propose to pick up, store and dispose of that a pile of "effluent" that may or may not be contaminated? How shall you remove that vomit from the seat?
If you go out on track and you come across all manner of discarded drug paraphernalia, used prophylactics and other unpleasant stuff - i aint touching them. Not now, not ever. I am also not going rooting through rubbish with a view to cleaning it up just in case there is something nasty inside it.
As for your final paragraph i have no idea what you mean. It is the same on trains and buses in London and the south. The companies need to employ more cleaning staff, have them travel on trains in service and try to ensure passengers use the bin.
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