Helsby to Ellesmere Port

[34D]

Where would a DMU reverse at Bh Central? Before electrification they reversed at Rock Ferry but that is equally implausible.
There are EMUs every 7 to 8 minutes in the peak between Ha Sq and Hooton. What do you need another service on top of that for? So reversal at Hooton? Why? EP is every 15 minutes, so you reverse at EP. Back to where we started. :cry:

Birkenhead Central basically has a south-facing bay at present. All we need is the fence removing and the platform edge extending slightly.

Surely a better idea would be to go to Birkenhead North via the out of use line that branches off at Rock Ferry (and reopen platform 0 there).

Is this line still connected at the North end?

 

[vjm1975]

Tickets are on sale for this excursion from today. They are being sold at any staffed Merseyrail and Northern rail station. Ask for a Helsby Hooton 150 Day Ranger. Prices are £10 adult, £5 Child. No railcards. I brought mine at Port Sunlight today on the way home from school. In the normal format of a rail ranger, although it says rail rover on it. For any more info, go onto theNCRUG site and click on the image of a ticket in the top right.

I will be popping in to Ellesmere Port station tomorrow morning on way home from work to pick mine up

 

[pablo]

Birkenhead Central basically has a south-facing bay at present. All we need is the fence removing and the platform edge extending slightly.
Surely a better idea would be to go to Birkenhead North via the out of use line that branches off at Rock Ferry (and reopen platform 0 there).

Is this line still connected at the North end?

1) The track was removed. what you're looking at is the adjacent siding.

2) Did you dream this one up? Go look at the alignment. And, it never went to B'head North station.

All pointless with such a frequent EMU service.

 

[jamesst]

1) The track was removed. what you're looking at is the adjacent siding.

2) Did you dream this one up? Go look at the alignment. And, it never went to B'head North station.

All pointless with such a frequent EMU service.

Fully agreed,the siding at Birkenhead Central is already used for EMU storage outside of peak hours. And with 6 trains per hour between Hooton and Liverpool as it is there is no need for further services.

 

[34D]

1) The track was removed. what you're looking at is the adjacent siding.

2) Did you dream this one up? Go look at the alignment. And, it never went to B'head North station.

All pointless with such a frequent EMU service.

I'm referring to page 131 of Track Atlas (second edition), if this is wrong I apologise.

But yes, I have noted the state of the south end of this line as being very overgrown.

Another option could be to run Helsby-Ellesmere Port-Hooton. At Hooton, there is both an electrified and an un-electrified bay platform which could be used (the un-electrified one hasn't been a platform for a long time so may require signalling/interlocks. The electrified one sees occasional merseyrail use - and will see daily use for a month from next Sat).

Ellesmere Port-Hooton is only every 30 minutes so a third train here would/could prove useful.

 

[jamesst]

I'm referring to page 131 of Track Atlas (second edition), if this is wrong I apologise.

But yes, I have noted the state of the south end of this line as being very overgrown.

Another option could be to run Helsby-Ellesmere Port-Hooton. At Hooton, there is both an electrified and an un-electrified bay platform which could be used (the un-electrified one hasn't been a platform for a long time so may require signalling/interlocks. The electrified one sees occasional merseyrail use - and will see daily use for a month from next Sat).

Ellesmere Port-Hooton is only every 30 minutes so a third train here would/could prove useful.

Why? There really is no need for any more than a 30min service between Ellesmere Port and Hooton,for the majority of the day the trains between those two stations carry fresh air.
The only section where the service needs looking at is Ellesmere Port to Helsby.
To make interchange easier at Ellesmere Port consideration could be given to using the short platform towards the end of platform 1. This was built when the line was electrified but track never laid.

 

[kieron]

Why? There really is no need for any more than a 30min service between Ellesmere Port and Hooton,for the majority of the day the trains between those two stations carry fresh air.

Personally, I don't see a more frequent Ellesmere Port-Helsby service as simply a way of giving a service to somewhere that doesn't have much of one. Elton's only small, and the glassworks isn't that large either. Thornton-le-Moors is smaller, and it's about a mile away from the station down a private road. I don't think either station will be very busy whatever you do.

Where it would come in useful is with east-west connections. Starting in Hooton would be logical, as it is used as a Park & Ride site more than the Ellesmere Port stations are, and it allows connections to/from Chester-Liverpool trains. Warrington Bank Quay is the first station on the line with good rail connections.

If Warrington had 1tph to Chester and 1tph to Hooton off-peak, it would be quicker for Chester-Warrington travellers to go via Hooton and use a Merseyrail train to bridge the gap rather than wait for the next direct train. It takes around same travel time either way, but I suspect Network Rail could easily change that.

I haven't tried to work out how far you'd need to go up the Wirral for a change in Liverpool to become quicker, but it would be anywhere between 10 and 30 minutes faster from Hooton to Warrington (once Lime Street reopens fully, anyway), depending on which Liverpool-Warrington train you catch.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Weaver Vale MP Graham Evans is campaigning for a full Halton Curve reopening.
Of course it is not just Cheshire folk who could benefit. Direct links between North Wales and Liverpool would benefit many.
I am not associated with any political party, I am just keen to get the curve open again.
http://www.grahamevansmp.com/campaigns/halton-curve-connecting-weaver-vale

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Went on this trip today on all of the specials. Really enjoyed myself and took lots of photos. Shame the train wasn't a 150 to celebrate the occasion, it was 2 156's instead.

I was the kid with the swollen, bloodshotted, red left eye if anybody saw me (hay fever) I was wearing a black shirt with red stripes.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

No TVM at Hooton and that's fact.

I think we may have been at cross purposes with our TLA's here.

Did you mean TV Monitors (of which there are two) or Ticket Vending Machines (of which there are none)?

A good turn out on the 150th anniversary special from Liverpool Lime Street high level to Hooton & back today operated by a 4-car class 156.

Outward it travelled via Warrington Bank Quay taking the higher line southwards rather than the lower line through the yards. At Hooton it ran into the electrified bay platform 1 rather than the unnumbered excursion platform. The unit then did a return Hooton - Helsby short trip.

On its final return to Liverpool the driver forgot to make his scheduled stop at Frodsham before turning on to the Halton curve.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I think we may have been at cross purposes with our TLA's here.

Did you mean TV Monitors (of which there are two) or Ticket Vending Machines (of which there are none)?

A good turn out on the 150th anniversary special from Liverpool Lime Street high level to Hooton & back today operated by a 4-car class 156.

Outward it travelled via Warrington Bank Quay taking the higher line southwards rather than the lower line through the yards. At Hooton it ran into the electrified bay platform 1 rather than the unnumbered excursion platform. The unit then did a return Hooton - Helsby short trip.

On its final return to Liverpool the driver forgot to make his scheduled stop at Frodsham before turning on to the Halton curve.

Did you by any chance notice if many people were waiting to board at Frodsham?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

A good turn out on the 150th anniversary special from Liverpool Lime Street high level to Hooton & back today operated by a 4-car class 156.

Outward it travelled via Warrington Bank Quay taking the higher line southwards rather than the lower line through the yards. At Hooton it ran into the electrified bay platform 1 rather than the unnumbered excursion platform. The unit then did a return Hooton - Helsby short trip.

On its final return to Liverpool the driver forgot to make his scheduled stop at Frodsham before turning on to the Halton curve.

Was a very good trip really enjoyed myself (apart from hay fever playing up, got dad to meet me at Hooton with my eyedrops), the driver even took the nameplate out of the cab for people to take photos of it. I wonder why the bloke selling raffle tickets couldn't sell them on the train, he said why but I couldn't hear him. About not hearing things, the only bad thing was that all the announcements weren't very clear.

As for Frodsham, I thought he was going a bit fast. I thought he would slam the brakes or something! Maybe he was a driver who drives the 07:53 Chester-Runcorn parly and thought he was working the same train. Would he get in trouble or anything for missing the stop?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Did you by any chance notice if many people were waiting to board at Frodsham?

As far as I could see, there was fortunately nobody waiting on the platform.

 

[Andymccabe13]

Very good turn out for the Hooton helsby 150, as much as I hate 142's I wish it could of been due to the stuffy cooked up nature of the 156 on that particular day, but I still enjoyed it just like most of you did, and I don't think the driver will get into trouble as it was only a booked service between Hooton - Helsby. Did anybody get any shots on the merseyrail stations? I didn't want to leave the train as it only did 2 runs, shame really

What went on at Ellesmere Port and helsby by the way?

 

[ATW Alex 101]

Very good turn out for the Hooton helsby 150, as much as I hate 142's I wish it could of been due to the stuffy cooked up nature of the 156 on that particular day, but I still enjoyed it just like most of you did, and I don't think the driver will get into trouble as it was only a booked service between Hooton - Helsby. Did anybody get any shots on the merseyrail stations? I didn't want to leave the train as it only did 2 runs, shame really

What went on at Ellesmere Port and helsby by the way?

I got a shot at Overpool and Little Sutton each, they may not be the best as I didn't have long to take them. I will put them in this thread as soon as I get back from school. (Around 4:30)

 

[Old Yard Dog]

Very good turn out for the Hooton helsby 150, as much as I hate 142's I wish it could of been due to the stuffy cooked up nature of the 156 on that particular day, but I still enjoyed it just like most of you did, and I don't think the driver will get into trouble as it was only a booked service between Hooton - Helsby. Did anybody get any shots on the merseyrail stations? I didn't want to leave the train as it only did 2 runs, shame really

What went on at Ellesmere Port and helsby by the way?

Various MPs and civic dignitaries were entertained by Morris dancers at Ellesmere Port - see

http://www.ellesmereportpioneer.co....-service-celebrated-in-hooton-55940-33588650/

After the trip round the Halton curve, the first Merseyrail train back from Liverpool Central to Ellesmere Port was cancelled but I still made it back just in time for a couple of rides to Helsby on the service train, catching the special bus back at 1630.

There was a miniature steam engine at Helsby and a couple of stalls which were just closing, one of which might have had more customers if it wasn't for the big Alsatian. The stalls probably also lost business when the short working was held at the signal outside Helsby station for several minutes giving people little time to look around before the special returned to Hooton.

 

[frodshamfella]

Travelled today, on Helsby-E Port, waited on a very hot platform at Helsby for 15.17, 3 passengers inc me boarded , extra passenger got on at Ince. Caught 16.04 back from E port, 5 passengers boarded included me ( and 5 got off the arriving service into E Port). On my return, I left train at Frodsham, all others remained on board, I know two were going to Warrington BQ as they asked me if they were on the right platform at E Port, imagine other two were also. So busy day for this branch !!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

A couple of links to last weekend's trip and the new campaign from the local MP insupport of the Halton Curve.
http://www.chesterchronicle.co.uk/c...ecial-anniversary-celebration-59067-33593951/
http://www.runcornandwidnesweeklyne...ute-through-runcorn-is-robust-55368-33592054/

 

[Andymccabe13]

Considering the Hooton branch is relatively quit they could of had a longer turn around time at Helsby, it is the reason why me and a lot of others didn't get chance to visit the station.

I left my car at Frodsham even though i live in EP, so I ended up getting the 15:22 from Central arriving into EP at 16:00 catching the Helsby 16:04 which was unusually a class 142... But a nice change from sprinter's.

 

[frodshamfella]

Just an update for those interested on this limited service branch line. Travelled Thurs 12th on first afternoon service out of Helsby, and back on the last return just after 1600 from Ellesmere Port, all service I travelled on had more than just me on hock: , about 4 or 5 ,not busy, but never the less better than just me ! A bigger shock were Passengers waiting at Ince & Elton, two travelling to Ellesmere Port, and another waiting for the return Helsby bound service.

Used the 16.04 again on Saturday From E.Port (runs through to Warrington BQ) 15 Sept, again 5 passengers, at lease three of us changed from Merseyrail inbound from Liverpool Central. Four alighted at Frodsham.

Good to see passengers using it, hope it grows, of course could be a blip !!

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Just an update for those interested on this limited service branch line. Travelled Thurs 12th on first afternoon service out of Helsby, and back on the last return just after 1600 from Ellesmere Port, all service I travelled on had more than just me on hock: , about 4 or 5 ,not busy, but never the less better than just me ! A bigger shock were Passengers waiting at Ince & Elton, two travelling to Ellesmere Port, and another waiting for the return Helsby bound service.

Used the 16.04 again on Saturday From E.Port (runs through to Warrington BQ) 15 Sept, again 5 passengers, at lease three of us changed from Merseyrail inbound from Liverpool Central. Four alighted at Frodsham.

Good to see passengers using it, hope it grows, of course could be a blip !!

It would be great if the service took off a bit but it really is poor. I travel into Manchester from Helsby most days and there are folk from Elton who drive to Helsby as the infrequent Northern service doesn't align with any ATW one.
Even if the times were tweaked in a morning, the service in the afternoon doesn't align. If the morning runs between Helsby and E Port met with the 0649 and 0721 Man Picc trains then the afternoon ones aligned with the 1742 and 1815 arrivals into Helsby from Manchester I am sure the services would be better utilised.

 

[frodshamfella]

I totally agree, I go on the afternoon services, for a bit of a short trip, no real other reason, buy a few things in the 30 mins I have in E Port, then back to Frodsham, but really I go on this route for the curiosity value. Im never likely to go on the two crack of dawn services (I wonder if anyone does !) .

However, a better timed service say two in the morning later than what is available now, and two in the afternoon again later, to attract commuters for Warrington and Manchester to connect at Helsby would be a massive improvment certainly for folk in Ince, Elton and E Port. Stanlow & Thornton Station is a bit of an oddity.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

I totally agree, I go on the afternoon services, for a bit of a short trip, no real other reason, buy a few things in the 30 mins I have in E Port, then back to Frodsham, but really I go on this route for the curiosity value. Im never likely to go on the two crack of dawn services (I wonder if anyone does !) .

However, a better timed service say two in the morning later than what is available now, and two in the afternoon again later, to attract commuters for Warrington and Manchester to connect at Helsby would be a massive improvment certainly for folk in Ince, Elton and E Port. Stanlow & Thornton Station is a bit of an oddity.

Spot on. Just a few simple timing changes means the 4 trains a day becomes useful. It's not like there would be any route availability issues. Of course the ECS moves would be affected.

 

[Green Lane]

I was in Ellesmere Port on Saturday afternoon just gone. After taking a few photos of the Boat Museum and the Manchester Ship Canal etc, I had a little bit of time to kill and as I was on Oil Sites Road anyway, I though I'd walk down the road a bit to see if it's possible to get to Stanlow & Thornton station.

I proceeded eastwards along the road and it was a lot quieter (far fewer oil tanker lorries) than last time I walked down the road - presumably because it was a Saturday. Nevertheless there were still a few of them passing me by. Also, the previous "Private road" and "no access" signs that were in the vicinity the boat museum had been removed since my last visit - a good idea since the western end of the road isn't really that private, having multiple businesses down it such as a cement plant etc.. and even a café, not directly related to the refinery per se.

Eventually, I entered the strict "No photograpy" area and the current crop of "Private Road" signs, but then shortly after witnessed a freight train slowly moving eastbound along the embankment, making a quite excellent clattering sound. It would have made for a superb photo or even dare I say video clip, but absolutely impossible to get the camera out in that location!

Next a car pulled up and a man rolled down the window, I assumed I was going to get told off for straying into the restricted private road, but he simply asked me for directions to the A1 scrapyard, alas I could not assist with the enquiry but I was relieved that a simple enquiry was all that it was.

Eventually I reached a new set of barriers and gatehouse that had presumably been installed by the current refinery owners, Essar and a large LED sign showing "Passholders only beyond this point" or something similar. I remember well that these barriers weren't there the last time I had walked down the road from the Ellesmere Port end. Funnily enough though I do now remember an article in a local newspaper from a few years back mentioning that these extra barriers would be installed.

I was unsure if the "Passholders only" instruction applied only to vehicular traffic or to pedestrians too. So in truth I bottled it and decided to err on the side of caution and did a U-turn at that point, making my way back to Ellesmere Port.

Then walking back, I saw a cyclist (Bradley Wiggins style with racing bike and all the associated gear) cycling along Oil Sites Road, they must have cycled onwards through the barriers even though they presumably had no official business with the refinery. After seeing the cyclist, I sort of regretted I did not continue past the barrier - perhaps I would have simply been let through. My aim was simply to visit the station, so I sort of regretted turning back. But when you are on your own on that quite eerie and isolated road with all of the very serious looking warning signs it's hard not to feel slightly intimidated. So next time I visit Stanlow & Thornton station it may well be by train again!

 

[OxtedL]

Spot on. Just a few simple timing changes means the 4 trains a day becomes useful. It's not like there would be any route availability issues. Of course the ECS moves would be affected.

The ECS from the morning services goes on to form the 0758 Wigan NW to Liverpool Lime street service, so you'd need to find something to cover that if you wanted later services.

 

[frodshamfella]

Have been to Stanlow & Thornton myself, but by rail only , off one platform and over footbridge, to travel back. Quite eerie even on the station, as you do feel you cant dare leave it, I did however wander to the road level, but didnt stick around long, in case spotted !!

 

[Old Yard Dog]

I was in Ellesmere Port on Saturday afternoon just gone. After taking a few photos of the Boat Museum and the Manchester Ship Canal etc, I had a little bit of time to kill and as I was on Oil Sites Road anyway, I though I'd walk down the road a bit to see if it's possible to get to Stanlow & Thornton station.

I proceeded eastwards along the road and it was a lot quieter (far fewer oil tanker lorries) than last time I walked down the road - presumably because it was a Saturday. Nevertheless there were still a few of them passing me by. Also, the previous "Private road" and "no access" signs that were in the vicinity the boat museum had been removed since my last visit - a good idea since the western end of the road isn't really that private, having multiple businesses down it such as a cement plant etc.. and even a café, not directly related to the refinery per se.

Eventually, I entered the strict "No photograpy" area and the current crop of "Private Road" signs, but then shortly after witnessed a freight train slowly moving eastbound along the embankment, making a quite excellent clattering sound. It would have made for a superb photo or even dare I say video clip, but absolutely impossible to get the camera out in that location!

Next a car pulled up and a man rolled down the window, I assumed I was going to get told off for straying into the restricted private road, but he simply asked me for directions to the A1 scrapyard, alas I could not assist with the enquiry but I was relieved that a simple enquiry was all that it was.

Eventually I reached a new set of barriers and gatehouse that had presumably been installed by the current refinery owners, Essar and a large LED sign showing "Passholders only beyond this point" or something similar. I remember well that these barriers weren't there the last time I had walked down the road from the Ellesmere Port end. Funnily enough though I do now remember an article in a local newspaper from a few years back mentioning that these extra barriers would be installed.

I was unsure if the "Passholders only" instruction applied only to vehicular traffic or to pedestrians too. So in truth I bottled it and decided to err on the side of caution and did a U-turn at that point, making my way back to Ellesmere Port.

Then walking back, I saw a cyclist (Bradley Wiggins style with racing bike and all the associated gear) cycling along Oil Sites Road, they must have cycled onwards through the barriers even though they presumably had no official business with the refinery. After seeing the cyclist, I sort of regretted I did not continue past the barrier - perhaps I would have simply been let through. My aim was simply to visit the station, so I sort of regretted turning back. But when you are on your own on that quite eerie and isolated road with all of the very serious looking warning signs it's hard not to feel slightly intimidated. So next time I visit Stanlow & Thornton station it may well be by train again!

The barrier on Oil Sites Road can in principle be walked or cycled towards from either the Ellesmere Port or Ince end and is simply there to stop through motorized traffic that the refinery disapproves of. Particularly fuel protesters.

The barrier is occasionally opened when the A5117 is blocked, but they don't tell very many people.

Stanlow station is on the Ince side of the barrier.

It is unclear what the rights of way situation is, particularly for people going to the station, most of whom could use Ellesmere Port or Ince & Elton just as easily. You will be almost certainly be picked up on CCTV but whether the secury guards will do anything I don't know.

The F52 bus used to run the length of Oil Sites Road once a day 10-15 yeas ago.

 

[pablo]

The road belongs to Shell. In the past, when it was an open thoroughfare, Shell used to conduct an occasional census so they could reclaim a proportion of its maintenance costs from Cheshire CC.

 

[Green Lane]

Thanks very much for the informative replies.

 

[34D]

It is unclear what the rights of way situation is, particularly for people going to the station, most of whom could use Ellesmere Port or Ince & Elton just as easily.

The council (Cheshire?) will have a definitive map. It may be online, otherwise could someone local visit a local library?

Also the Land Registry title (if registered) may detail rights of way. Ditto the title to the station itself.