New Bus for London

[34D]

The NBfL may actually be the only double decker with two staircases in the world that has only 2 axles. Hong Kong buses are mostly 3 axles because of the air conditioning.

Meet the amazing V3
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Tfl report an average of 6.74mpg for the prototype vehicles (versus 6.1mpg for the 'normal' hybrids working on route 73). Which means they use less fuel, not more.

Compared with 8mpg for olympians/atlanteans etc.

 

[radamfi]

Meet the amazing V3

Good spot. Was there only one of those buses made with two staircases?

 

[BestWestern]

Good spot. Was there only one of those buses made with two staircases?

I believe so, if it's the bus I think it is. Is this the one that overturned and was then rebuilt by Black Prince, and was fairly recently restored back to LT prototype condition?

 

[455driver]

I always remember the Ailsa? that Black Prince painted up to look like 2 single deckers, one on top of the other.

 

[dlj83]

What is the salary for a conductor on nbfl, i think i read around 24,000 but Have only seen it advertised with no salary information included

 

[radamfi]

I phoned up Go-Ahead London out of curiosity, who are currently recruiting for route 11 conductors, and I was told £9.30 per hour on weekdays, £9.80 per hour at the weekend. I have read on a forum that route 24 conductors are on £10 per hour (£11 at the weekend), with £11 weekdays/£12.10 weekends for overtime.

 

[Deerfold]

Wow, what a superb use of £350k of taxpayers cash, x 60! That being the 'initial' order of course; we can be certain that more will follow now the initial investment has been laid down, else somebody will look a bit silly. The damn things look horrible too. And you'll need to let the first one or two pass you by whilst you spend 10 minutes or so reading the 'which door to go through and what to do with your ticket' rule book.

Not sure if that was a typo, but the initial order's 600 as per Boris's Manifesto.

There's now talk of 2000 being bought (in total).

 

[radamfi]

How many have been purchased so far to cover the 38 prototypes, 24, 11 and 16 routes? Surely Wrights won't be building all 600/2000?

 

[BestWestern]

Not sure if that was a typo, but the initial order's 600 as per Boris's Manifesto.

There's now talk of 2000 being bought (in total).

Sorry, my error. Quite right of course.

I wonder if they do order another 1,400 whether they'll all cost £354k, or if perhaps they'll get that down somewhat. They'll be pricey though no matter what.

 

[radamfi]

I don't necessarily object to spending a large amount of money on quality buses. British buses are generally cheap and poor quality compared to those used in the rest of Europe. However, for the cost of a NBfL you could buy the very best vehicle used on the continent with air conditioning and double glazing.

 

[jon0844]

I've seen some pretty ropey buses abroad.

 

[radamfi]

I've seen some pretty ropey buses abroad.

Certainly you can't really go wrong with new buses in, say, the Netherlands, Germany or Switzerland. Berlin has quality MAN double deckers.

 

[34D]

I believe so, if it's the bus I think it is. Is this the one that overturned and was then rebuilt by Black Prince, and was fairly recently restored back to LT prototype condition?

Absolutely correct. When with Black Prince it had just one door (think this conversion was done in London) and two staircases, then Roger Wright refitted the rear door. Sadly, it only ran with Black Prince for under a year

Did any other UK buses have twin staircases? I do not know either way.
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How many have been purchased so far to cover the 38 prototypes, 24, 11 and 16 routes? Surely Wrights won't be building all 600/2000?

How many prototypes were they, and are they now in passenger service? Or will they become an RM8-esque rarity?

 

[gordonthemoron]

Certainly you can't really go wrong with new buses in, say, the Netherlands, Germany or Switzerland. Berlin has quality MAN double deckers.

the MAN double deckers are great, unfortunately the doors are on the wrong side

However I have seen some ex-German buses in Northern Cyprus where the front door was on the right and there was a middle door on the left (Northern Cyprus drives on the left)

 

[jon0844]

(Off topic) but when I was in the Bahamas, where they also drive on the left, nearly every car was left hand drive because it was cheaper and easier to import cars from the US. [Nb; this was over 10 years ago]

I can't say I remember what buses were like though. Perhaps they were the exception!

 

[radamfi]

Would MAN be willing to build a right-hand drive version of the Lion's City DD if Boris waved £350K per bus in front of them?

 

[ModernRailways]

Certainly you can't really go wrong with new buses in, say, the Netherlands, Germany or Switzerland. Berlin has quality MAN double deckers.

Aren't some of the buses in Berlin fairly lengthy and that's without being 'bendy'? We have quite a lot of Citaro's over here like they do over there, although up here in Newcastle they have 'Gold Standard' written on the doors. In Berlin they are ridiculously common.

I'm not too sure on other cities, but from what I know Citaros are commonplace over in Europe (not the UK).

London need's it's double deckers though, and for all the Boris Bus may be relatively costly (at first) it is pleasing to the eye, and most of all gives a comfortable journey. Once all the small issues like air con etc. are fixed I'm sure they will become iconic. I was on one the other day and the temperature was fine. Probably about 25 degrees, but it wasn't too hot as it wasn't humid. I was on one where it was humid and it was deadly, but I imagine these problems to be fixed over time.

 

[radamfi]

It is probably fair to say that the Citaro is the 'gold standard' for single decks (rigid/artic) and therefore they are widespread in mainland Europe.

 

[Deerfold]

How many prototypes were they, and are they now in passenger service? Or will they become an RM8-esque rarity?

There were 8 prototypes. 6 are still running on route 38, the other two have been to the states and I'm not quite sure where they are now.
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How many have been purchased so far to cover the 38 prototypes, 24, 11 and 16 routes? Surely Wrights won't be building all 600/2000?

The order placed is for 600. They're arriving in small batches with enough ready
by the time each route conversion comes up.

Wrights are the only manufacturer for the NB4L and have exclusive rights for the first 1000 vehicles. The initial order for 600 is with them. If more than 1000 are to be ordered there may be a new competitive tender.

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London need's it's double deckers though, and for all the Boris Bus may be relatively costly (at first) it is pleasing to the eye, and most of all gives a comfortable journey. Once all the small issues like air con etc. are fixed I'm sure they will become iconic. I was on one the other day and the temperature was fine. Probably about 25 degrees, but it wasn't too hot as it wasn't humid. I was on one where it was humid and it was deadly, but I imagine these problems to be fixed over time.

I don't think anyone doubts that London needs double deckers, especially if it's not to have bendies. There's plenty of them here - with more hybrid non-Borisbuses due to be purchased too.

It's debatable whether it's pleasing to the eyel Personally I'm not keen on the look of them.

 

[christopher]

Would MAN be willing to build a right-hand drive version of the Lion's City DD if Boris waved £350K per bus in front of them?

I'm sure I read that Man had stopped building them somewhere - Might be wrong though.

The Lion's City DD would be perfect for London as long as it was done properly. Front door for boarding and the others for exit only and having a one-way system on the staircases.

 

[455driver]

the MAN double deckers are great, unfortunately the doors are on the wrong side

That didnt stop West Riding selling some of their Bristol VRs to America,they simple cut a door in behind the stairs on the right hand side, there were also lots of mods done to comply with US legislation but cutting a door in is no biggy.

 

[LexyBoy]

Or just drive them in reverse- problem solved.

 

[tbtc]

The order placed is for 600. They're arriving in small batches with enough ready
by the time each route conversion comes up.

Wrights are the only manufacturer for the NB4L. The initial order for 600 is with them

Excuse my ignorance, but what percentage of the total London fleet would that make the NB4L?

Will everything in Zone One be one (apart from Routemasters) in a few years time?

 

[transmanche]

Excuse my ignorance, but what percentage of the total London fleet would that make the NB4L?

About 8%.

 

[Deerfold]

Excuse my ignorance, but what percentage of the total London fleet would that make the NB4L?

Will everything in Zone One be one (apart from Routemasters) in a few years time?

The total fleet is around 8,500 buses.

It's not yet clear how the allocation is going to work.

 

[tbtc]

About 8%.

The total fleet is around 8,500 buses.

It's not yet clear how the allocation is going to work.

Cheers for the quick answers

 

[BestWestern]

I don't think anyone doubts that London needs double deckers, especially if it's not to have bendies. There's plenty of them here - with more hybrid non-Borisbuses due to be purchased too.

It's debatable whether it's pleasing to the eyel Personally I'm not keen on the look of them.

I concur, it looks bl**dy awful if you ask me! For all the bluster and PR spin, I very much doubt these things will ever become anything like 'iconic'. Bus design now is very style-orientated, and the NBfL just doesn't look that much different to anything else. Sure, it has a silly black swoop across the front, but to a casual observer it's just a red bus. If they'd gone for something that looked a bit like an RM, then perhaps. But alas, once these things have been in service for a little while, once the windows are etched and the seats are worn and grubby, once they rattle and bounce and still get too hot in the summer, nobody will really care very much at all. It's all just Mayoral spin.

 

[Antman]

I concur, it looks bl**dy awful if you ask me! For all the bluster and PR spin, I very much doubt these things will ever become anything like 'iconic'. Bus design now is very style-orientated, and the NBfL just doesn't look that much different to anything else. Sure, it has a silly black swoop across the front, but to a casual observer it's just a red bus. If they'd gone for something that looked a bit like an RM, then perhaps. But alas, once these things have been in service for a little while, once the windows are etched and the seats are worn and grubby, once they rattle and bounce and still get too hot in the summer, nobody will really care very much at all. It's all just Mayoral spin.

What is mayoral spin?

Shall we have a bet on how many windows get etched?

The only 'spin' I can detect is coming from your direction.

 

[Chrisgr31]

I was walking near the office at Cambridge Circus the other day and a new Boris Bus was coming down Tottenham Court Road and I heard a tourist shout to his friends "There's one of those new buses lets go and jump on it".

Personally given a choice I much prefer the new Boris Bus to the old double deckers on Route 24 and will specifically wait for it if I can see one coming behind a standard double decker. The ride is much smoother and quieter,

 

[robertclark125]

The ride might be much smoother and quieter, but then, the trouble is it's just for London. The RM was a successful bus, mainly because it sold in larger numbers, and penny numbers were sold outside London. Once other manufacturers come up with buses just as smooth and quiet, and at a cheaper price, Londoners will be entitled to ask why buy the NBFL.

And it's interesting no operator outside London has shown an interest in it.